Say it ain't so, Joe

[bosrs1]

Would it be too much to make a North Korea joke?

Post the joke and let us decide

[Lights Out]

By the way, I'd just like to point out that players risk having to transfer elsewhere for reasons outside their control the moment they commit to any school. Don't like it? Don't play college football.

Not to mention, if we follow the logic that current players don't deserve the consequences of the program's past transgressions, then it's impossible to punish any school for anything.

[Kevin W.]

Would it be too much to make a North Korea joke?

Post the joke and let us decide

I'll let you know when I think of one. Right now, all I can think of is "Paterno Joe-Il" and that's not funny.

[Lights Out]

Kim Joe-Pa?

[CS85]

I'm trying not to get irrational with my anger over this, but this has evolved beyond just the Sandusky acts into Decency vs. Greed. A very public showdown, may I add. If the university refuses to act, then the NCAA must. If they don't, both institutions need to be entirely restructured. I don't give a good god damn if it's federally done (and screw the people against gov-in-sports, this was about condoning child rape). If it happened once, why can't it happen again?

It's not just limited to Penn State, as obviously college football is the most crooked entity in the sports world, but there needs to be an example made. You can't just keep throwing bodies onto the sword and saying the problem is solved when clearly it's not.

[Kevin W.]

Well, I was at least trying to keep the name arranged like a Korean name, so technically it would be "Pa Joe-Il."

See, I told you it's not funny.

[bosrs1]

Kim Joe-Pa?

I laughed

[rams80]

Unfortunately for the people who want giant smoking holes, after American society more or less let the US Catholic Church skate with just tossing the people most directly responsible for their far more systemic and institutionalized child abuse problem under the bus and deal with a host of (admittedly expensive) civil judgments, well...there's your cover of precedent if the Big Ten, NCAA, and government wants any for not doing a whole lot. They can argue that justice will be served through the inevitable civil lawsuits.

[CS85]

That's an entirely different and more dangerous ball of wax, I'm afraid. I understand the comparison, but that argument could derail this thread into unforeseen and drastically more volatile waters.

[coozapalooza]

Does anyone else think that if there is a death penalty or any other major sanctions handed out that we'd see another giant narcissistic riot from some of the PSU students mad that the NCAA took away their football and tore down Joe Pa's shining good name?

In fact, I'd be surprised if there WASN'T a riot under those circumstances.

[CS85]

Does anyone else think that if there is a death penalty or any other major sanctions handed out that we'd see another giant narcissistic riot from some of the PSU students mad that the NCAA took away their football and tore down Joe Pa's shining good name?

In fact, I'd be surprised if there WASN'T a riot under those circumstances.

There would, but it'd only make them look worse for it, further justifying the punishment.

[njmeadowlanders]

Again, we once rioted either over a frisbee or a mini-keg depending on which one is accurate. This would be really dangerous: lots of drunk stupid college kids with a mob mentality. If and when something is declared, they better have a LOT of preparedness.

[Billy B]

The biggest thing I see that keeps Penn State from getting shut down is the Big Ten. They just had their first cash cow of a championship game and it would be horrible if the NCAA shut then out of that. I was also in the camp of not hurting the players there now that were not in any way involved with the scandal.

So I think a reasonable solution would be suspending the Penn State Football program for a considerable time (3-5 years maybe). Then to steal with the players it's pretty easy. Let them transfer without penalty anywhere they want. The budget issue is with the Big Ten IMO. Since this a unique situation that (hopefully) will never come up again, the NCAA should grant the conference an exception and let then play a championship game with 11 teams.

[Kramerica Industries]

Not sure what Bill O'Brien was thinking when he took this job in the first place, honestly.

I guess one could say that he couldn't have expected things to get this out of hand, but I'm not too shocked, if at all. He left a job with one of the two best-run organizations in the NFL for a collegiate program that, by all means, should be facing a nice period of time where no team should be fielded. Not to mention the fact that succeeding a legend is always a problem, especially since many of the deranged Penn Staters still treat Paterno like an actual, deserving legend, and the like.

Yikes. Not trying to distract from the bigger issues at hand here, but this guy pretty solidly screwed himself, if there is any justice to be had in regards to the Penn State football program.

[Lights Out]

IIRC, Penn State settled for O'Brien after going around laughably begging for established coaches, like Chris Petersen, to leave their program for this mess and getting the response you'd expect.

[BBTV]

1342328674' post='1844892']

Problem is, most people associated with Penn State don't live in the real world. The level of disconnect from reality is stunning.

It's reasonable to think that way based on everything that's happened, but like in most cases like this, it really is the vocal minority you're hearing from. I have no affiliation, but work with and know a ton of people that do, and each one of them feels just like NJMeadowlanders (though none are ashamed of their degrees, nor should they be.)

You're hearing from rural townspeople (rubes for which Paterno was their lord and savior), idiot 19-year-olds (who are idiots at pretty much any big party school) and yes, delusional alumni. I honestly believe that the overwhelming majority of professionals who are alums do understand the gravity of the situation. Of course, the brighter you are, the less likely you are to take to twitter or make a big demonstration or otherwise be heard. The right course is usually to lay low, which of course is why in nearly all cases of extreme controversy, you only hear from the yahoos and rubes.

1342350247' post='1844957']

Not sure what Bill O'Brien was thinking when he took this job in the first place, honestly.

I guess one could say that he couldn't have expected things to get this out of hand, but I'm not too shocked, if at all. He left a job with one of the two best-run organizations in the NFL for a collegiate program that, by all means, should be facing a nice period of time where no team should be fielded. Not to mention the fact that succeeding a legend is always a problem, especially since many of the deranged Penn Staters still treat Paterno like an actual, deserving legend, and the like.

Yikes. Not trying to distract from the bigger issues at hand here, but this guy pretty solidly screwed himself, if there is any justice to be had in regards to the Penn State football program.

He had to know that a season off was a possibility, and I'd suspect that there has to be language in his contract about any sanctions related to the prior administration. It'd probably help him replace a "legend" if they did suspend the program for a year.

1342360538' post='1844969']

IIRC, Penn State settled for O'Brien after going around laughably begging for established coaches, like Chris Petersen, to leave their program for this mess and getting the response you'd expect.

Is that true? I don't recall that.

[Lights Out]

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/24156338/34048488

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2011/12/12/2629976/kyle-whittingham-penn-state-arizona-state-contract-extension/in/2402233

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2011/12/munchak-on-penn-state-rumors-nothing-is-going-on/1#.UALcFDd5mc0

[coozapalooza]

This is already a situation without precedent at all anyway...so maybe if the NCAA were to ban Penn State from competing in football for any amount of time they could allow the Big Ten to still have a title game despite not normally allowing that, just to not punish the other schools and the conference itself.

[NJTank]

You know what really makes this whole thing just stink like rotting garbage on a hot summer day? The fact that if Penn State did the right thing from Day 1, nobody would have blamed the University, nobody would have blamed Paterno, nothing would have happened to tarnish the program, only that prick Jerry Sandusky would have been blamed and only Sandusky seen as the bad guy here.

Think about it there was an investigation in 1998 for one reason or another Sandusky was not charged, however he was quietly asked to resign and given full emeritus status, this was the right thing to do. The school should have stayed out of it they had no knowledge if anything happened on campus, there was an investigation and they asked him to quit . Stay of it let the police do their work. If he is charged than the reason he "quit" is known if not than innocent until proven guilty applies. I don't know why he was not charged in 1998 but that should have been warning to Penn State, and Sandusky involvement with the school should have been minimal afterward that is where they made their first mistake. If he was not on campus and finally got caught the school can just say we never knew any thing and again stayed cleaned. Than came the shower incident where Penn State lost its soul, its credibility, its legacy, its everything. If they simply did the right thing no matter what Paterno or the school thought nobody would have torn them down, nobody would have gone after Joe Pa or the school, and the football program would not have been tarnished and many other victims would not have been molested.

Doing the right thing was the easy way out, the cover up was the hard part. The actively had to tell everyone to keep quiet they likely made McCreary a coach and they made the university look like the mafia as others who knew became afraid to come forward. Worse off they continued to allow Sandusky around the University and often he was with kids. So lets handle it internally was a joke as well. They should have made Sandusky seek help if they were handling internally and should have banned him from campus, but they did neither and they did nothing but cover it up and in the end its over. There is no coming back the only solution is to end football at Penn State, and limit all other sports. Use the money the sports department raised to compensate the victims, and just go on and become a quiet state school.

[njmeadowlanders]

It's reasonable to think that way based on everything that's happened, but like in most cases like this, it really is the vocal minority you're hearing from. I have no affiliation, but work with and know a ton of people that do, and each one of them feels just like NJMeadowlanders (though none are ashamed of their degrees, nor should they be.)

Just to clarify: I'm not ashamed of my degree(s if you include a minor), I just hate the names that are going to be forever on it (them). They both hang on my wall and will continue to do so. They're prominently featured on my resume (hopefully joined soon with an MBA one from San Diego State). Just because the administration looked the other way on a pedophile doesn't mean that the classes I took were any less valid or that the school itself is of a lesser quality.

It also doesn't make me regret having gone to the school. Best 4 years of my life, I wasn't there when this happened, nobody knew, it was an awesome place to be a student. But I lived about a minute away from that football building for two years and it's virtually adjacent to a daycare center. Anytime I think about that now it's sort of creepy.