2012 MLB Season

[pmoehrin]

I could see a team bringing him back in the future, but if he's fired I think he's going to be out of a managing job for awhile. His main problem I think is that he needs to calm down. Gets way too worked up over things that don't really matter in the course of a game or season. How can you respect someone like that?

I can't see him getting another managerial job. He did a poor managerial job his last four years, including last year where he pretty much gave up and tanked the season because he already had an agreement in place to coach the Marlins the next year. He did a good job managing in his first two seasons, but then he got too full of himself and changed his methods. His biggest attribute, that he "keeps guys loose" only lasted for a short time, and then he became a grating personality in the clubhouse. I don't think the Marlins were very loose playing for him this year. He routinely calls players out and cusses about misques/not hustling, but continues to put them in the lineup every day instead of disciplining them. He has already scorched the earth to the point where an owner who viewed him like a son decided to give up on him. He wore out his welcome in Miami within two months. He is also likely to say something stupid and embarass the franchise at some point. And that doesn't even account for his horrible, degenerate, trust-fund partyboy sons who regularly take to Twitter and air dirty laundry about the players. He is just not worth it.

The only way I can see him getting another managerial job is someone hiring him ten years down the road, in an drastic attempt to shake-up the team. Sounds familiar. I imagine that tenure would be just as fruitful as Valentine's was in Boston.

I would pretty much agree with that in full. Alot more detailed then what I wrote but I think the same basic points remain the same. Just too many off field issues that can't be overlooked that take away from his ability as a manger to merit hiring him. In retrospect had he spent a few years managing in the minors, he would have either been exposed for this stuff sooner, or be forced to change his attitude in order to move up.

My main knock on him is that he's just a hot head. There are players where you do need to yell at in order to really motivate. I get that. But there's a fine line between doing that and just embarrassing somebody. I've seen him chew out guys in their first week in the majors over some mundane thing. Obviously nobody on the team is going to call him out on it, but I would imagine even veteran players would see that and say to themselves what is this guy's problem? Are you trying to motivate the kid or break him?

[NJTank]

So then you can look at average and RBI and leave it at that. If you don't want to know a players OPS or whatever just don't look at it. It's that simple. If you don't care, fine, but what if someone else likes that it's displayed? It's there if you want it, if you want to ignore it than do with it as you wish.

I do ignore it I never look at UZR, WAR, RZR I do look at OPS but that is a tanigble stat. The problem I have is the sabrheads ram rodding Trout's MVP candidcay down our throats. Winning the triple crown to me is an automatic MVP especially when you win the division.

[sportstar1212]

Who do you guys think will replace Bobby V?

[NJTank]

Jason Varitek

[pmoehrin]

Who do you guys think will replace Bobby V?

Probably John Farrell. I know the Blue Jays are going to do everything they can to keep him, but the Red Sox are one of those teams that generally get what they want and if the Red Sox want John Farrell to manage the team next year, pretty good chance John Farrell's going to be the manager.

As for the sabermetrics argument. The only thing I'll say is I know alot of people lump me in with the group that pours over these UZR and WAR numbers daily, but if you look at my posts very rarely will you see me mention them. I can't recall ever even mentioning what a guy's UZR is/was. Defense is a little tricky, but if you look at a guy's batting average, slugging average, HR's, RBI's, stolen bases, at-bats and walks, you should be able to get a pretty good read on how good a player is.

From a historical perspective the man thing I look at is what were other guys doing in the league at the time. And that's where alot of these stats like WAR actually start to break down. I think WAR is a good tool to use to compare players if your just talking about guys playing the same position and in the same year. Beyond that though, I don't think it does a good job of accounting for era differences or certain positions like catcher. The year Joe Mauer won the MVP in '09 I thought it was pretty much a no-brainer, but according to WAR Ben Zobrist should have been the MVP. And Zobrist had an outstanding year, but I can think of second baseman who had better years then Zobrist even going back just a few years. Not many guys I thought had a better year then Mauer behind the plate and I gotta go back more then a few years to find somebody that I thought did.

[Kramerica Industries]

So then you can look at average and RBI and leave it at that. If you don't want to know a players OPS or whatever just don't look at it. It's that simple. If you don't care, fine, but what if someone else likes that it's displayed? It's there if you want it, if you want to ignore it than do with it as you wish.

I do ignore it I never look at UZR, WAR, RZR I do look at OPS but that is a tanigble stat. The problem I have is the sabrheads ram rodding Trout's MVP candidcay down our throats. Winning the triple crown to me is an automatic MVP especially when you win the division.

That is such an awful way of looking at it, though.

1) You cannot compare the run production of a lead-off hitter to a #3 hitter with another elite hitter right behind him. Mike Trout could never lead in RBI, hitting where he does in the lineup. Sabermetrics has nothing to do with that.

2) Again, the Angels won 89 games, in a division where two teams won 94 and 93 games. The Tigers won 88 games in a division where only one other team finished .500 or better. Penalizing Mike Trout for that is ridiculous. And sabermetrics has nothing to do with that.

3) As far as "triple crown = auto MVP" - way to totally disregard the impact of defense. I'm not a huge fan of WAR and UZR, because defense is very hard to quantify, and what qualifies as "league average" varies from year to year. Defense is absolutely the most eye test-aided thing left in baseball. And the eye test says Miggy is a poor third baseman (not shocking), and Trout is the best CFer in the sport. CF being a much tougher position, of course.

If Cabrera gets the MVP, I won't complain. At the end of the day, I don't really care. Both have valid cases. But you're ways of giving Cabrera the MVP make absolutely no sense. Sabermetrics or not.

[ninersdd]

[quote name=infrared41'

timestamp='1349364888' post='1889851]

The truth is, you can't learn all there is to know about baseball from books and a stat sheet. If it were that simple, we'd all be GMs. Old fashioned and antiquated as it may seem, some of us still use our eyes to watch baseball.

And if the eye test was infallible, MLB general

managers would have the easiest jobs in the world.

Care to show me where I said the eye test was infallible? Jesus, this SABR stuff is almost as

bad as the political stuff around here. You people are like Pit Bulls with this . For the last -ing time, I AM NOT AGAINST SABR STATS! All I said was there is more to assessing a player than looking at a stat sheet. Note I said stat sheet. Not SABR stat

sheet. Not traditional stat sheet. Just a stat sheet.

[quote name=Epiphanic'

timestamp='1349375925' post='1889930]

For 's sake people. All I said was my

only real issue (one issue, not several) with SABR stats is that some (some, not all) people think they can assess a player using only SABR stats. Now please stop treating me like I'm Tank. C'mon people, it isn't that difficult to read and comprehend a post around here.

Then your problem is with those people, not with the SABR stats themselves.

Some people's kids, amirite?

Oh hell :censored:ing yes!!!

Look I understand wanting to look at other stats buut this SABR has reached a level

of annoyance to me, I personally believe the traditional stats are one of the things that make baseball great and too many SABR fans want to disgard them as atiquated. I want to watch the game and understand stats with some scratch paper and leave the calculas in math class. If you are a scout and a GM these stats matter

because they are predictive, but it does not tell the story of the game that is being played. However, say something bad about SABR numbers and its like you insult Jesus Christ, Tim Tebow, Brett Favre, Chuck Norris, Moses, Budah, and Allah all at the same time

Fixed your post

Guess it's set though. Giants vs Reds. They beat us 4-3 in the season series, and the games were mostly close. SF is 1-7 in Cincy their last 8 games there, so would be practical to get the first 2 at home.(Obviously) I can't wait until Saturday for it to start, where hopefully Cain can dominate like he did 2 years ago in the playoffs.

[NEW.ERA]

John Ferrell's going nowhere, if he does. I wish him nothing but more pain and heartache for that stupid Red Sox franchise.

[Raysfan12]

Who do you guys think will replace Bobby V?

Ethier Varitek or the Red Sox fans themselves. It's just a hot mess in Boston.

[Epiphanic]

Re: Cabrera/Trout

I find myself pulling for Trout just because narrative is "Triple Crown=MVP". (Haters gonna hate.) If that's Cabrera's case, then I'm not that convinced. Joe Posnanski presented an interesting hypothetical a couple of days ago about it. Say Josh Hamilton went on a tear and hits one more homer than Cabrera. Or Joe Mauer took the batting title. Cabrera still has the same numbers, but he doesn't have the Triple Crown. In that scenario is he still your MVP?

Maybe he is, and if that's the case I'm okay with that. But the idea of "Triple Crown=MVP" is silly.

[HedleyLamarr]

So Omar Visquel played his last game of his Major League career. I don't know what everyone else's thoughts on this are. I think he's a hall of famer. Tremendous career, I'm glad he ended it as a Jay.

To put this in perspective....

Omar Vizquel made his first Major League start in the same game as Ken Griffey Jr. did back in 1989.

[infrared41]

For 's sake people. All I said was my only real issue (one issue, not several) with SABR stats is that some (some, not all) people think they can assess a player using only SABR stats. Now please stop treating me like I'm Tank. C'mon people, it isn't that difficult to read and comprehend a post around here.

Then your problem is with those people, not with the SABR stats themselves.

Exactly. I'm fine with SABR stats. Hell, I read the very first Bill James Historical Abstract back in 1985. I thought it was awesome. But God forbid that I say SABR stats aren't the be all, end all. You know what else? There is such a thing as hitting in the clutch. So there.

[Lights Out]

I want to watch the game and understand stats with some scratch paper and leave the calculas in math class.

You say that as if finding these stats and detailed explanations is somehow a long and arduous process when reality it just takes spending like two seconds on FanGraphs.

[OnWis97]

So then you can look at average and RBI and leave it at that. If you don't want to know a players OPS or whatever just don't look at it. It's that simple. If you don't care, fine, but what if someone else likes that it's displayed? It's there if you want it, if you want to ignore it than do with it as you wish.

I do ignore it I never look at UZR, WAR, RZR I do look at OPS but that is a tanigble stat. The problem I have is the sabrheads ram rodding Trout's MVP candidcay down our throats. Winning the triple crown to me is an automatic MVP especially when you win the division.

That is such an awful way of looking at it, though.

1) You cannot compare the run production of a lead-off hitter to a #3 hitter with another elite hitter right behind him. Mike Trout could never lead in RBI, hitting where he does in the lineup. Sabermetrics has nothing to do with that.

2) Again, the Angels won 89 games, in a division where two teams won 94 and 93 games. The Tigers won 88 games in a division where only one other team finished .500 or better. Penalizing Mike Trout for that is ridiculous. And sabermetrics has nothing to do with that.

3) As far as "triple crown = auto MVP" - way to totally disregard the impact of defense. I'm not a huge fan of WAR and UZR, because defense is very hard to quantify, and what qualifies as "league average" varies from year to year. Defense is absolutely the most eye test-aided thing left in baseball. And the eye test says Miggy is a poor third baseman (not shocking), and Trout is the best CFer in the sport. CF being a much tougher position, of course.

If Cabrera gets the MVP, I won't complain. At the end of the day, I don't really care. Both have valid cases. But you're ways of giving Cabrera the MVP make absolutely no sense. Sabermetrics or not.

I cannot pretend I watched him every day but it does not seem he's been a total liability. I could certainly argue that he has "value" as someone who could move over to third base because an even fatter slugger can only play at first base and maybe cut him some slack for not being in the gold glove discussion.

There's no question that Trout has more value defensively, which is great. And it's also great that we are including defense in an MVP discussion, but it seems like that's just starting now.

[dfwabel]

And Commission on Chicago Landmarks’s permit review committee approved the plans for the Cubs to add more seats behind the plate by moving the wall behind home plate. 56 additional seats of prime revenue.

[Eye]

I want to watch the game and understand stats with some scratch paper and leave the calculas in math class.

You say that as if finding these stats and detailed explanations is somehow a long and arduous process when reality it just takes spending like two seconds on FanGraphs.

I think Tank's xenophobia towards sabremetrics is a little bizarre ,considering some of them have value, but that's just it, SOME of them have value; there are more than a few BS sabremetric stats. The key is knowing which ones matter, how, and why they're implemented.

[NJTank]

I want to watch the game and understand stats with some scratch paper and leave the calculas in math class.

You say that as if finding these stats and detailed explanations is somehow a long and arduous process when reality it just takes spending like two seconds on FanGraphs.

I think Tank's xenophobia towards sabremetrics is a little bizarre ,considering some of them have value, but that's just it, SOME of them have value; there are more than a few BS sabremetric stats. The key is knowing which ones matter, how, and why they're implemented.

I will conseed there is value to OPS and WHIP

[Kramerica Industries]

Those aren't sabermetric statistics.

OPS is nothing more than on-base percentage and slugging percentage combined. And neither of those are complex statistical formulas.

WHIP is exactly as it sounds. Walks + Hits / Innings Pitched.

[FiddySicks]

Ooh that time out was pretty ridiculous IMO. Way to replacement ref it up there, umps! 2-0 Braves because of that.

[BrySmalls]

Cards score three runs in the top of the 4th to take the lead, 3-2.