2015 NCAA Football Thread

[HedleyLamarr]

Schitt...if it's $20 to go to that game, I may go.

Hell, I'm putting down $20 to go to Georgia State's bowl game in Orlando. May as well see history....saw GSU's first-ever game (and win), may as well see their first bowl game.

[VikingsNotMinnesota]

Henry winning the heisman would be a total travesty, yet we all know it's going to happen.

Agreed. I think the big argument for him would be TDs, which is an area in which he as a pretty significant edge over McCaffery, but McCaffrey should be the runaway choice, in my opinion.

Out of curiosity, what's the argument against Henry? Hope it's something more than "Anyone could do that with Alabama" or some sort of "Anyone But Alabama/The SEC". Using one of those arguments is a pretty lame route to take.

It's not, because it's true. Also McCaffery kinda had possibly the greatest single season by a running back ever. That's a thing too.

Well, let's not confuse the stats here.

Can't really play the "greatest single season by a running back" line when another RB ran for more yards in the same season. Single season all-purpose yardage leader isn't really a positional stat.

So? That matters? Would his numbers somehow be more meaningful if he was a wide receiver? He had statistically the greatest season any non quarterback has ever had. That's the record he broke. Are you saying henry's season is more impressive because he had 150 more rushing yards?

For the record, the 1100 kickoff return yards aside, McCaffery still has 350 more offensive yards than Henry. The only argument Henry even has is touchdowns, and that's easily defeated because Remound Wright exists, along with the other three stanford backs with multiple touchdowns this year. There's just no justification for Henry winning the heisman, it's a joke that's sadly taken seriously by too many people.

[Discrim]

Not that all that many care, but anybody think Army can at least keep things closeish against Navy? Um...yeah, me either. Reynolds is just too good.

[HedleyLamarr]

What I'm saying is that Henry not only rushed for more yards, but he also faced tougher defenses...specifically, tougher defenses against the run. And, he saved his best performances for their spotlight games. Surely your "big games mean the most!" adage should apply to determining who should win trophies, no?

And, for what it's worth, the argument of "Well, Henry rushed the ball 40 times a game" doesn't really fly when McCaffrey averaged fewer than two carries less per game than Henry.

Henry simply did more than McCaffrey when it mattered, against tougher competition, and got his team to the playoffs.

[2001mark]

No market for Peach Bowl tickets.

http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/peach-bowl-ticket-prices-low-without-sec/

No market for Houston. What do you expect when you invite noobs to the party.

[VikingsNotMinnesota]

What I'm saying is that Henry not only rushed for more yards, but he also faced tougher defenses...specifically, tougher defenses against the run. And, he saved his best performances for their spotlight games. Surely your "big games mean the most!" adage should apply to determining who should win trophies, no?

And, for what it's worth, the argument of "Well, Henry rushed the ball 40 times a game" doesn't really fly when McCaffrey averaged fewer than two carries less per game than Henry.

Henry simply did more than McCaffrey when it mattered, against tougher competition, and got his team to the playoffs.

Of course, that's why everyone else put's up McCaffery's numbers every year, my mistake. Also lol at better defenses, the SEC isn't even the best defensive conference in football, the ACC is (5003 yards per game allowed, to the SEC's 5010). Give me a break. And big games matter most to teams, we're talking about individuals. The team is going to succeed as a team, not off one player (at least in football, you can get away with that in basketball). Even then, McCaffery had great games against Oregon, USC in the pac-12 title game, and against UCLA. Regardless, you're still arguing Henry in terms of rushing yards. And in terms of that, you're right, McCaffery and Henry are essentially equal, about the same yards per carry, and one had 140 more rushing yards than the other. Pretty equal. But that's not why McCaffery is here and you're ignoring that. He led his team in receiving and had 1050 kickoff return yards (second in the nation btw). He did much more than just run the ball. You're pretending like that doesn't mean anything because he's a running back. Henry had a good season, that's it. McCaffery had a special season.

[waltere]

You really don't like Alabama do you.

[DS729]

I concur with the above post, stop trying to hide your bias against Alabama (and probably the SEC in general) it's getting ridiculous. And LOL at the ACC being a better defensive conference than the SEC. Have you even seen some of the teams in this conference play?

[BlackBolt3]

To be fair, technically the ACC has some of the top defenses in the nation. A lot of the schools are in the top 50 of the measurement, although I forgot where to find it. Better athletes, well that's up for you to decide.

The thing is, if you take any of these players away from their teams, they are not nearly as successful. Bama might have three losses, (they don't win the Tennessee or Arkansas game without him) Stanford probably doesn't make the conference championship game, Clemson would probably be hovering around .500. I'm at peace with whoever wins, because each have had Heisman like years, it just sucks that they all had them at once.

[OnWis97]

Schitt...if it's $20 to go to that game, I may go.

Hell, I'm putting down $20 to go to Georgia State's bowl game in Orlando. May as well see history....saw GSU's first-ever game (and win), may as well see their first bowl game.

One down side of living where I do...no bowl games. If I lived near a bowl site, I'd go every year. I am a bit jealous that some people can just say "well, I may just go to random bowl game for the heck of it."

If the Vikings stadium resulted in a "Cold Weather .500 Mid-Major Bowl" I'd go every year.

[rams80]

What I'm saying is that Henry not only rushed for more yards, but he also faced tougher defenses...specifically, tougher defenses against the run. And, he saved his best performances for their spotlight games. Surely your "big games mean the most!" adage should apply to determining who should win trophies, no?

I'll give you Florida, but dude, the SEC West defenses this year were kind of well, crappy.

And, for what it's worth, the argument of "Well, Henry rushed the ball 40 times a game" doesn't really fly when McCaffrey averaged fewer than two carries less per game than Henry.

Is that rushes or touches because if it's the latter, McCaffrey did a heck of a lot more.

Henry simply did more than McCaffrey when it mattered, against tougher competition, and got his team to the playoffs.

Gained 236 @ Texas A&M, which finished 8-4 (4-4) (103rd against run)

Gained 210 vs LSU, which finished 8-3 (5-3) (24th against run) and almost fired their coach

Gained 204 @ Mississippi State, which finished 8-4 (4-4) (72nd against run)

Gained 271 @ Auburn, which finished 6-6 (2-6) (91st against run)

Gained 189 vs Florida, which finished 10-3 (7-1), (17th against run) but has had absolutely no discernible offense since Will Grier got busted for steroids halfway through the season.

Not sure about that tougher competition bit. FWIW Alabama's other foes were 4 (Wisconsin) 16 (Arkansas) 26 (Mississippi) 35 (Middle Tennessee) 48 (Georgia) 49 (Tennessee) 104 (Louisiana-Monroe) n.r (Charleston Southern)

[rams80]

Can't really play the "greatest single season by a running back" line when another RB ran for more yards in the same season. Single season all-purpose yardage leader isn't really a positional stat.

Henry also had 2 more games than Walker, soooo....

[MJWalker45]

Not that all that many care, but anybody think Army can at least keep things closeish against Navy? Um...yeah, me either. Reynolds is just too good.

If Army isn't lising by double digits after the first quarter, I'll be surprised. We're awful.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Schitt...if it's $20 to go to that game, I may go.

Hell, I'm putting down $20 to go to Georgia State's bowl game in Orlando. May as well see history....saw GSU's first-ever game (and win), may as well see their first bowl game.

One down side of living where I do...no bowl games. If I lived near a bowl site, I'd go every year. I am a bit jealous that some people can just say "well, I may just go to random bowl game for the heck of it."

If the Vikings stadium resulted in a "Cold Weather .500 Mid-Major Bowl" I'd go every year.

Indeed. Seattle used to have a bowl game at Safeco Field, but that's long gone now. I'm sure attendance was terrible, but isn't that part of the charm?

[HedleyLamarr]

Can't really play the "greatest single season by a running back" line when another RB ran for more yards in the same season. Single season all-purpose yardage leader isn't really a positional stat.

Henry also had 2 more games than Walker, soooo....

Didn't know Herschel Walker played college football in 2015, soooo.....

[See Red]

Well, it's fair to point out that a running back's duties aren't limited to what he does when he's handed the football since RBs are eligible receivers. Running for more yards on more carries with roughly the same YPC doesn't carry that much weight when the other player had a significantly greater impact in the passing game and was one of the best return men in the country.

Not that it really matters, but I would also think Henry benefitted from some late-game production against some tired defenses with how great Alabama's defense. I know at one point in the third against Florida he was hovering around 3 YPC and had been mostly ineffective until all the three-and-outs Florida's offense had started to take it's toll on the defense.

[HedleyLamarr]

What I'm saying is that Henry not only rushed for more yards, but he also faced tougher defenses...specifically, tougher defenses against the run. And, he saved his best performances for their spotlight games. Surely your "big games mean the most!" adage should apply to determining who should win trophies, no?

I'll give you Florida, but dude, the SEC West defenses this year were kind of well, crappy.

And, for what it's worth, the argument of "Well, Henry rushed the ball 40 times a game" doesn't really fly when McCaffrey averaged fewer than two carries less per game than Henry.

Is that rushes or touches because if it's the latter, McCaffrey did a heck of a lot more.

Henry simply did more than McCaffrey when it mattered, against tougher competition, and got his team to the playoffs.

Gained 236 @ Texas A&M, which finished 8-4 (4-4) (103rd against run)

Gained 210 vs LSU, which finished 8-3 (5-3) (24th against run) and almost fired their coach

Gained 204 @ Mississippi State, which finished 8-4 (4-4) (72nd against run)

Gained 271 @ Auburn, which finished 6-6 (2-6) (91st against run)

Gained 189 vs Florida, which finished 10-3 (7-1), (17th against run) but has had absolutely no discernible offense since Will Grier got busted for steroids halfway through the season.

Not sure about that tougher competition bit. FWIW Alabama's other foes were 4 (Wisconsin) 16 (Arkansas) 26 (Mississippi) 35 (Middle Tennessee) 48 (Georgia) 49 (Tennessee) 104 (Louisiana-Monroe) n.r (Charleston Southern)

Cool, you did some research on Alabama's opponents' rush defenses. Now look up Stanford's opponents' rush defenses.

Henry had 339 rushing attempts, McCaffrey had 319. Your argument against Henry was that he was fed the ball a lot (26 carries a game). Meanwhile, you seemingly are putting your support with McCaffrey, even with his 24.5 carries per game. To me, going against Henry with McCaffrey's RB credentials seems to be contradictory when you mention "He's getting a ton of carries."

Furthermore, Alabama's loss can't be pinned on Henry or the offense not doing their job...they lost a game where they scored 43 points. The same can't be said for McCaffrey....he didn't even get to 100 yards from scrimmage in a game where Stanford put up a grand total of six points. That game is the reason why Stanford didn't make the playoffs.

No doubting McCaffrey had a nice season. Congrats on breaking a record despite having two more games than the previous record holder and collecting a bunch of return yards (which is the easiest way to collect all-purpose yards). However, he wasn't even the best at his actual position in positional yards and very likely isn't in the discussion if a record wasn't broken. At best, he's probably the 4th-best RB (Henry, Cook, Fournette).

I'd personally vote for Watson for Heisman. But based on what I've seen and looking inside the numbers, Henry is more deserving than McCaffrey.

[VikingsNotMinnesota]

The entire reason McCaffery is invited is because of what he did other than rushing, and you're basically saying those yards don't matter because you say so. Ok.

You really don't like Alabama do you.

I'll have you know my hatred of Alabama only moderately influences my posts

I concur with the above post, stop trying to hide your bias against Alabama (and probably the SEC in general) it's getting ridiculous. And LOL at the ACC being a better defensive conference than the SEC. Have you even seen some of the teams in this conference play?

I could say the exact same about the SEC.

[H11K]

To all this above, McCaffery is no doubt a better overall player as his statistics speak for himself. No other skill player has had as good of season than McCaffery had this year, but honestly Henry did more for his team and I hate to say that. He was the most dominant back in the SEC and without him Bama is nowhere near the playoff. In world where the Award went to the best overall player, McCaffery wins. but we all know what the Heisman is and it generally goes to the player who led his team to the National Spotlight/Championship.

[VikingsNotMinnesota]

To all this above, McCaffery is no doubt a better overall player as his statistics speak for himself. No other skill player has had as good of season than McCaffery had this year, but honestly Henry did more for his team and I hate to say that. He was the most dominant back in the SEC and without him Bama is nowhere near the playoff. In world where the Award went to the best overall player, McCaffery wins. but we all know what the Heisman is and it generally goes to the player who led his team to the National Spotlight/Championship.

I'm not arguing who's going to win it, everyone knows Henry will. I'm saying that fact that Henry will win it is sad.