illwauk Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 I wanted to keep at least one team in the south and they're the only one with something that resembles a fanbase. Of course, in this alternate universe where I'm king, the Spirits of St. Louis are still around because no team with that awesome of a name would ever fold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 I wanted to keep at least one team in the south and they're the only one with something that resembles a fanbase.Have you seen a game in Dallas? They were near the bottom of the league in attendance last year and this start sure isn't going to help that this season. Then you have a team like Tampa Bay that regularly sells out the TBTF, including all games this season. Quote Athletic Director: KTU Blue Grassers Football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philsphan Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Move Atlanta to Industrial and Florida Suns to the Sunbelt Division. Otherwise, looks good.Why is that? Just curious, that's all."Suns." Their name is in the division name and Florida is closer to the Sunbelt than Atlanta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philsphan Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 In light of the 32 team NHL thread that has exploded and illwauk's realignment here is mine!Boston BruinsMontreal CanadiensOttawa SenatorsQuebec Nordiques *expansionHartford Whalers *from FloridaNew York RangersBrooklyn IslandersNew Jersey DevilsPhiladelphia FlyersPittsburgh PenguinsWashington CapitalsTampa Bay LightningCarolina HurricanesNashville PredatorsColumbus Blue JacketsDallas Toros *for lack of a better nameDetroit Red WingsChicago BlackhawksToronto Maple LeafsBuffalo SabresMinnesota North StarsSt. Louis BluesWinnipeg JetsColorado AvalancheCalgary FlamesEdmonton OilersVancouver CanucksSeattle Metropolitans *from PhoenixLos Angeles KingsSan Jose SharksAnaheim DucksSalt Lake... Saints, Sting, Mammoths, Mormons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illwauk Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I wanted to keep at least one team in the south and they're the only one with something that resembles a fanbase.Have you seen a game in Dallas? They were near the bottom of the league in attendance last year and this start sure isn't going to help that this season. Then you have a team like Tampa Bay that regularly sells out the TBTF, including all games this season.To be perfectly honest, it's been awhile since I actively followed the NHL. Dallas is also more convenient geographically since Tampa Bay would throw off the entire alignment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Leagues for winter sports should pack their teams together for warmth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrySmalls Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I wanted to keep at least one team in the south and they're the only one with something that resembles a fanbase.Have you seen a game in Dallas? They were near the bottom of the league in attendance last year and this start sure isn't going to help that this season. Then you have a team like Tampa Bay that regularly sells out the TBTF, including all games this season.To be perfectly honest, it's been awhile since I actively followed the NHL. Dallas is also more convenient geographically since Tampa Bay would throw off the entire alignment.Why are the cities of Hartford, Milwaukee (Brew City), Portland, and Seattle granted Alternate Universe NHL franchises while Washington, D.C. was ommitted from your league? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JQK Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I think the 4 division "pod" set up is the only way to have a decent realignment with the current number of teams and taking the geography/rivalries into consideration. Also, Phoenix...If Phoenix stays or movies to Seattle:Patrick Division: NJ, NYI, NYR, PHI, PIT, WAS, CBJAdams Division: BOS, OTT, MTL, TOR, BUF, FLA, TB, CARNorris Division: DET, CHI, STL, NSH, MIN, WPG, DALSmythe Division: SJ, ANA, LA, COL, VAN, EDM, CGY, PHX/SEAIf Phoenix movies to Quebec:Patrick Division: NJ, NYI, NYR, PHI, PIT, WAS, CARAdams Division: BOS, OTT, MTL, QUE, TOR, BUF, FLA, TBNorris Division: DET, CHI, STL, NSH, MIN, WPG, CBJSmythe Division: SJ, ANA, LA, COL, VAN, EDM, CGY, DAL Quote Stay Tuned Sports Podcast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH42XCC Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Since there are talks about an NHL Expansion, here are my ideas for a 32-team NHL.Scenario A: Phoenix Coyotes stay putEASTERN CONFERENCEAtlanticNew Jersey DevilsNew York IslandersNew York RangersPhiladelphia FlyersNortheastBoston BruinsMontreal CanadiensOttawa SenatorsToronto Maple LeafsSoutheastCarolina HurricanesFlorida PanthersTampa Bay LightningWashington CapitalsCentralBuffalo SabresColumbus Blue JacketsDetroit Red WingsPittsburgh PenguinsWESTERN CONFERENCEMidwestChicago BlackhawksMinnesota WildNashville PredatorsSt. Louis BluesNorthwestCalgary FlamesEdmonton OilersVancouver CanucksWinnipeg JetsSouthwestColorado AvalancheDallas StarsHouston expansion teamPhoenix CoyotesPacificAnaheim DucksLos Angeles KingsSan Jose SharksSeattle expansion teamScenario B: Phoenix Coyotes move to SeattleEASTERN CONFERENCEAtlanticNew Jersey DevilsNew York IslandersNew York RangersPhiladelphia FlyersNortheastBoston BruinsMontreal CanadiensOttawa SenatorsToronto Maple LeafsSoutheastCarolina HurricanesFlorida PanthersTampa Bay LightningWashington CapitalsCentralBuffalo SabresColumbus Blue JacketsDetroit Red WingsPittsburgh PenguinsWESTERN CONFERENCEMidwestChicago BlackhawksMinnesota WildNashville PredatorsSt. Louis BluesNorthwestCalgary FlamesEdmonton OilersVancouver CanucksWinnipeg JetsSouthwestColorado AvalancheDallas StarsHouston expansion teamOklahoma City expansion teamPacificAnaheim DucksLos Angeles KingsSan Jose SharksSeattle [insert team name here] (relocated from Phoenix)Scenario C: Phoenix moves to QuebecEASTERN CONFERENCEAtlanticNew Jersey DevilsNew York IslandersNew York RangersPhiladelphia FlyersNortheastBoston BruinsMontreal CanadiensOttawa SenatorsQuebec Nordiques (relocated from Phoenix)SoutheastCarolina HurricanesFlorida PanthersTampa Bay LightningWashington CapitalsCentralBuffalo SabresColumbus Blue JacketsPittsburgh PenguinsToronto Maple LeafsWESTERN CONFERENCEMidwestChicago BlackhawksDetroit Red WingsMinnesota WildSt. Louis BluesNorthwestCalgary FlamesEdmonton OilersVancouver CanucksWinnipeg JetsSouthwestColorado AvalancheDallas StarsHouston expansion teamNashville PredatorsPacificAnaheim DucksLos Angeles KingsSan Jose SharksSeattle expansion team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceCap Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 If we assume that the Coyotes relocate and the NHL expands we have to subtract Phoenix and add three new markets. Ideally I'd like to see Quebec City, Seattle, and Milwaukee. We'd probably end up with Quebec City, Seattle, and Toronto 2.0 though. So here's what I would like to see if we get that setup. What's cool is that you could substitute Toronto 2.0 for Milwaukee and it would still work.Eastern Conference NortheastBoston BruinsBuffalo SabresMontreal CanadiensNew Jersey DevilsNew York IslandersNew York RangersOttawa SenatorsQuebec NordiquesAtlanticCarolina HurricanesDallas StarsFlorida PanthersNashville PredatorsPhiladelphia FlyersPittsburgh PenguinsTampa Bay LightningWashington CapitalsWestern Conference CentralChicago BlackhawksColumbus Blue JacketsDetroit Red WingsMinnesota WildSt. Louis BluesToronto Fighting Mongooses/Milwaukee AdmiralsToronto Maple LeafsWinnipeg JetsPacific Anaheim DucksCalgary FlamesColorado AvalancheEdmonton OilersLos Angeles KingsSan Jose SharksSeattle MetropolitansVancouver Canucks Quote PotD 26/2/12 1/7/15 2020 BASS Spin the Wheel, Make the Deal Regular Season Champion 2021 BASS NFL Pick'em Regular Season Champion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still MIGHTY Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Dallas in the Atlantic is almost worse than Dallas being the the Pacific.If it's Milwaukee in, I would swap conferences with Dallas and Toronto. Problem there is you'd have to put Toronto in the Northeast, and I have no ing clue who you move from the Northeast down. The southernmost team in your Northeast is New Jersey, and you'd have a hard time splitting them from the two New York teams (harder than splitting them with Philly which is bad enough.)If it's a second Toronto team... then you either move Dallas and split the two Torontos or move Dallas/Nashville and move both Torontos to the East, and move New Jersey down you'd have to split the two New Yorks? That wouldn't ever work either.The NHL's footprint makes realignment so freaking screwy. Quote | ANA | LAA | LAR | LAL | ASU | CSULB | USMNT | USWNT | LAFC | OCSC | MAN UTD | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycan38 Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 This is just a minor tweak overall to the league and gets Winnipeg out of the the Southeast. Its the most realistic realignment I could see the NHL doing.Eastern ConferenceAtlanticNew JerseyPittsburghNY IslandersPhiladelphiaNY RangersNortheastBostonOttawaMontrealBuffaloTorontoSoutheastTampa BayCarolinaWashingtonFloridaDallasWestern ConferenceCentralChicagoDetroitSt. LouisColumbusNashvilleNorthwestEdmontonCalgaryColoradoMinnesotaWinnipegPacificSan JoseAnaheimVancouverLos AngelesPhoenix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCall Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 This is just a minor tweak overall to the league and gets Winnipeg out of the the Southeast. Its the most realistic realignment I could see the NHL doing.Eastern ConferenceAtlanticNew JerseyPittsburghNY IslandersPhiladelphiaNY RangersNortheastBostonOttawaMontrealBuffaloTorontoSoutheastTampa BayCarolinaWashingtonFloridaDallasWestern ConferenceCentralChicagoDetroitSt. LouisColumbusNashvilleNorthwestEdmontonCalgaryColoradoMinnesotaWinnipegPacificSan JoseAnaheimVancouverLos AngelesPhoenixSwap Dallas and Nashville. Quote https://dribbble.com/MakaioCall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joechicago Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Dallas in the Atlantic is almost worse than Dallas being the the Pacific.Dallas is more southern than Western, so I think it makes sense putting it with Nashville, Carolina, Tampa Bay, etc.Also, I forgot I wrote in this thread early - Rams80 you make some excellent points, but I think the crux of our disagreements would be on the stadiums issue. Taxpayers who fund stadiums don't care if the team is playing in the top division, they care if the team is selling seats and generating a return on investment. Last place MLB teams don't sell well unless it's the Cubs. You're correct on those English cities' size, but doesn't that help my point? Sheffield is the size of Milwaukee or Portland, yet it has a Tier 2 team averaging 23k in attendance and a Tier 3 team averaging 18k in attendance.You mention Portsmouth. They still fill their stadium to 60% capacity even after dropping down two flights. That's about what the bottom third of the MLB gets with much larger metro areas, and those stadiums are more expensive and less practical. If we created 2nd-division NFL, I have no doubt established teams would still be drawing at 70+% capacity. Many teams, like the Bears and Steelers and Giants, would likely be above that. Same with the NBA with slightly lower figures and slightly more useful stadiums. The bonds would still get paid, even if it's a prohibiting factor in future bonds being issued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Also, I forgot I wrote in this thread early - Rams80 you make some excellent points, but I think the crux of our disagreements would be on the stadiums issue. Taxpayers who fund stadiums don't care if the team is playing in the top division, they care if the team is selling seats and generating a return on investment. Last place MLB teams don't sell well unless it's the Cubs. You're correct on those English cities' size, but doesn't that help my point? Sheffield is the size of Milwaukee or Portland, yet it has a Tier 2 team averaging 23k in attendance and a Tier 3 team averaging 18k in attendance.There is a tremendous difference in taxpayer expense between major league and even AAA stadia. El Paso's building a new AAA baseball stadium; sticker shock is $50 million. Marlins Park cost $634 million. The huge financial outlays by taxpayers for major league stadium is justified by the tenant's major league status. You lose that, you just piled up half a billion taxpayer dollars and bond issues and set it on fire. And nuked the city's credit rating while you're at it-which is going to cost taxpayers more money and lead to cuts in services. The citizens will just loooove that.As for Sheffield, the point is neither Portland nor Milwaukee is critical to success if you're a major league. Same thing for EPL, although on a larger scale. The only city it needs is London.You mention Portsmouth. They still fill their stadium to 60% capacity even after dropping down two flights. That's about what the bottom third of the MLB gets with much larger metro areas, and those stadiums are more expensive and less practical. Pompey's on course to drop out of the entire Football League in a year or two at this rate, and for all of those attendance pounds, the value of the business has cratered and they STILL can't find a businessman to own the team at the moment.If we created 2nd-division NFL, I have no doubt established teams would still be drawing at 70+% capacity. Many teams, like the Bears and Steelers and Giants, would likely be above that. Same with the NBA with slightly lower figures and slightly more useful stadiums. The bonds would still get paid, even if it's a prohibiting factor in future bonds being issued.Only the NHL remains "gate-driven" of the classic Big 4. The rest of the leagues are more dependent on TV money. How much TV money gets shelled out to watch AAA baseball again?Municipalities need bonds to function in the current anti-tax environment. Otherwise basic services start to suffer. "Prohibiting factor in future bonds being issued" is a major problem. Quote On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joechicago Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Here's my crazy version:NORTHTorontoMontrealQuebec (exp.)Toronto 2 (exp.)OttawaBostonBuffaloHalifax (reloc. Florida)EASTPittsburghPhiladelphiaNY RangersNY IslandersNew JerseyWashingtonCarolinaTampa BayCENTRALDetroitChicagoSt. LouisMinnesotaNashvilleDallasWinnipegColumbusWESTEdmontonCalgaryLas Vegas (reloc. Anaheim)VancouverSeattle (reloc. Phoenix)Los AngelesSan JoseColoradoThis league is terrible for geography. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH42XCC Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 I have a better 4 Division NHL alignment, in which I would like to call...Scenario D: 32 teams, 4 DivisionsEASTERN CONFERENCEAtlanticCarolina HurricanesFlorida PanthersNew Jersey DevilsNew York IslandersNew York RangersPhiladelphia FlyersTampa Bay LightningWashington CapitalsNortheastBoston BruinsBuffalo SabresColumbus Blue JacketsMontreal CanadiensOttawa SenatorsPittsburgh PenguinsQuebec Nordiques (expansion)Toronto Maple LeafsWESTERN CONFERENCECentralChicago BlackhawksDallas StarsDetroit Red WingsHouston expansion teamMinnesota WildNashville PredatorsSt. Louis BluesWinnipeg JetsPacificAnaheim DucksCalgary FlamesColorado AvalancheEdmonton OilersLos Angeles KingsSan Jose SharksSeattle (relocated from Phoenix)Vancouver Canucks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joechicago Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 (a) As for Sheffield, the point is neither Portland nor Milwaukee is critical to success if you're a major league. Same thing for EPL, although on a larger scale. The only city it needs is London.....( Only the NHL remains "gate-driven" of the classic Big 4. The rest of the leagues are more dependent on TV money. How much TV money gets shelled out to watch AAA baseball again?I'm not sure what point (a) has to do with people adopting relegation. The analysis should be on whether fans in city x will still support a team in the 2nd tier. My point was that fairly big teams occasionally drop to Tier 2 in the English structure and they survive. And in those essential metro areas, the promotion/relegation structure allows multiple teams in those areas as teams compete at different levels.On point (, AAA baseball is a terrible analogy. Those teams don't exist to develop their own product, they exist to develop someone else's. So the owners have no incentive to develop their own assets and no tools with which to market a media-friendly product. Additionally, the existence of AAA status comes from the grants/contracts of Major League teams, which prevents entry into a lot of markets, including the most lucrative ones. Plus, something tells me that if Oklahoma City had an elite core of prospects that would push them into the upper league, people would pay attention and TV contracts would arise.Let's say hypothetically that the NBA expands to three tiers, eradicates the NBA draft, eradicates market exclusivity, and allows for a way for new franchises to play their way into the pyramid. The first challenger franchises wouldn't be in El Paso, they'd be in NYC and Chicago, followed closely by teams in Pittsburgh, KC, St. Louis, San Diego, and other completely unrepresented cities at the top level. And because they would have wide placement in major media markets, they would wind up with much more favorable TV positions than AAA baseball or the NDBL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 (a) As for Sheffield, the point is neither Portland nor Milwaukee is critical to success if you're a major league. Same thing for EPL, although on a larger scale. The only city it needs is London.....( Only the NHL remains "gate-driven" of the classic Big 4. The rest of the leagues are more dependent on TV money. How much TV money gets shelled out to watch AAA baseball again?I'm not sure what point (a) has to do with people adopting relegation. The analysis should be on whether fans in city x will still support a team in the 2nd tier. My point was that fairly big teams occasionally drop to Tier 2 in the English structure and they survive. And in those essential metro areas, the promotion/relegation structure allows multiple teams in those areas as teams compete at different levels.Leagues can adopt relegation because the teams most likely to be relegated don't play in areas that could cost you media support or TV money if they weren't represented. The EPL currently quintuples down on Greater London, and the absolute worst case in a given year would be that Greater London only has 3 teams. This is good because London is the only market the EPL could not survive without. Believe me, if the relegation system posed an existential threat to the EPL's position in London, they'd drop it in a heartbeat. Meanwhile Leeds and Portsmouth do prove to the money guys the hazards of this system. Yes, they exist, but Leeds is still trying to climb out of the crater and as alluded to earlier, Portsmouth seems to be on a journey of discovery in which they find out how quickly a club can realistically go from the EPL to being out of the Football League altogether without being liquidated.Pay attention to what happens up in Scotland over the next few years as well now that they shot the only reason people care about that league in the head.On point ( , AAA baseball is a terrible analogy. Those teams don't exist to develop their own product, they exist to develop someone else's. So the owners have no incentive to develop their own assets and no tools with which to market a media-friendly product. Additionally, the existence of AAA status comes from the grants/contracts of Major League teams, which prevents entry into a lot of markets, including the most lucrative ones. Plus, something tells me that if Oklahoma City had an elite core of prospects that would push them into the upper league, people would pay attention and TV contracts would arise.Actually in terms of raw numbers for attendance its a pretty good analogy. Sheffield Wednesday's season-long attendance would put it in the lower 1st quarter of attendance states for AAA baseball, Sheffield United would be in the upper half. You need to remember that soccer attendance numbers are boosted up by a relative scarcity of home dates (and lack of competition for the sports dollar).Let's say hypothetically that the NBA expands to three tiers, eradicates the NBA draft, eradicates market exclusivity, and allows for a way for new franchises to play their way into the pyramid. The first challenger franchises wouldn't be in El Paso, they'd be in NYC and Chicago, followed closely by teams in Pittsburgh, KC, St. Louis, San Diego, and other completely unrepresented cities at the top level. And because they would have wide placement in major media markets, they would wind up with much more favorable TV positions than AAA baseball or the NDBL.Maybe. Or the entire thing would implode because of the entrenched fandoms in the multi-team cities for the existing teams and the markets that don't have teams are for the most part on the saturated side. Multi-team cities only work because they've been that way forever and most of the teams have historic roots in some neighborhood club team to give an organic fan base. Quote On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoughRiders99 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Ok guys,Some of you may have already seen my post regarding fantasy baseball and how to align them up.Well, since then, I've added 4 teams, which makes for a 20-team league.I've already named the divisions, but not the conferences/league, so that's where you come in. I will list out the league/teams/divisions so you can get an idea of the outlook:"Eastern League"Atlantic Coast DivisionLong Island D.Long Island Y.New JerseyNew YorkSpringfield (Massc.)Great Lakes DivisionBuffaloChicagoDayton (Ohio)PittsburghRochester"Western" LeagueGulf Coast DivisionAtlantaArkansasBirminghamFloridaTexasPacific Coast DivisionCaliforniaIowaPortlandSeattleSt. LouisHere's a map to help you out. Just ignore the "colored" pins and focus on the shaded area and the red line. Now, I just don't want to name the "leagues/conferences" after the boring, old east-west thing. I've thought about Pioneer-Frontier, Sunrise-Sunset, Rocky-Appalachian, etc etc.Now, it's kinda hard to come up with something because Florida/Atlanta are in the "west" but the "majority" of the Great Lakes division is in the Eastern Time Zone (only one in CST) whilst only two teams in the "west" are in EST.The division names are pretty much set. I'm just looking for conference/league names.The overall league name is "Fantasy Mendoza League," or FML. Yes, I did that on purpose :-PAny insight/suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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