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1 minute ago, the admiral said:

Don't hate him, was happy he won in 2016, but the people with the gall to insist that he's better than Michael Jordan need to be sent to the re-education camps. 

 

The plus for LeBron is that he's played with lesser players and coaches and managed to be a good human being while Jordan took a pass on all of that. But I can do math too and see that 6 is more than 3. And that Jordan changed the game in ways LeBron didn't (and, really, couldn't).

 

I'm fine with Jordan being 1A and James being 1B, but I don't think there's as huge gap between those two as there is those two and everybody else.

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I thought it was 1A/1B but now I'm not 100-percent sure he's better than Kobe or Duncan. And how much does "good human being" matter in the end? I think it matters very much to the ride-or-die LeBron people at places like Deadspin: they desperately want to believe that LeBron would, under the right circumstances, be their buddy. I think the sociopathy of Jordan and Kobe should be applauded in sports -- given the alternatives, it's arguably the disease's healthiest outlet.

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The Capitals, Eagles, and Astros were far from big favorites to win their respective championships

 

Philly was projected as a 9-10 win Wild Card team, but everyone loved Dallas/Giants in the NFC East- Eagles were certainly no Super Bowl favorite.

Astros were probably picked to maybe win their division, but they were far from a World Series favorite.

Capitals given all their playoff woes were written off as a Cup threat given the great teams they had and lost with. Crabcake was probably not as optimistic on this Caps team going into the postseason.

 

Contrast that with Golden State.

 

In  other major sports, being the favorite or having the most talented team guarantees nothing (Steelers had most Pro Bowlers, Lightning most NHL All Stars..... we saw what happened to them)

But with Golden State.... it's a different story.

It is as simple as relying on fewer players, lack of variance?

Things like a bad bullpen, turnovers, puck luck, goalies can derail you in other sports.

 

The Eagles needed a goal line stand and some clutch 4th down heroics along the way in their playoff run. The Astros had a lot of ups and downs. The Capitals had so many things to conquer (Down 0-2 to Columbus, Pittsburgh ghosts, potential choke to Tampa, trying to not blow a 3-1 series lead).

 

With Golden State.... Chris Paul injury aside, not the same.

The Astros had 5 All Stars last year, but it isn’t viewed the same as Golden State’s FOUR All Stars.

 

Why so?

 

Houston relied on a group of great players playing as a collective team unit, Philly played the underdog role, Washington was fueled by Ovechkin's burning desire and this team enjoyed not being the trendy favorite for once.

 

And it kinda showed after they won.

 

When the Caps won- ZOMG CAPS THEY DID IT

 

When the Eagles won- ZOMG THE EAGLES FINALLY DID IT THEY BEAT NEW ENGLAND

 

When the Astros- HOUSTON FINALLY WON

 

Warriors- oh they won again

 

And the emotional contrast between the Dubs/Caps alone in less than 24 hours.....

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It's pretty simple really: The Warriors are the Anti-Christ and any second now the world is going to end. 

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13 hours ago, Lights Out said:

If we're being honest: the Warriors are boring. There's a reason why the entire storyline surrounding their win is surrounding LeBron: his free agency decision, his Finals record, his legacy. There's a lot to talk about with those subjects. There's nothing to talk about with the Warriors. Four Hall of Famers stacking the deck just to beat one guy isn't particularly interesting. It's predictable and not fun to watch for neutral fans.

 

You mean a team drafting 3 hall of famers (at 7, 11, and 35) ?

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Because the NBA has the absolute most absurd CBA of all the major sports and it's damn near impossible for teams to really improve or come out of nowhere because roster overhaul is tough (which is why they trade just for expiring contracts rather than actual players) and drafting superstars is really tough.  Once a team gets great, whether it's by luck (draft picks that unexpectedly developed into superstars, a la Tom Brady), by the super rare generational superstar GM that fleeces other GMs, or by actually drafting a star, they're going to be great for a long time.  

 

You guys hate Sam Hinkie and hate the Process, but every thread like this is an endorsement of it.  As long as the current CBA is in place (and since every version of it is basically the same, it ain't going nowhere even after next negotiations) it's going to be like this, so shut up, quit complaining (because you already know the answers), and trust the process.

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There is no parity in the NBA, and the league is so topheavy. As long as the NBA's Salary Cap is structured the way it is; superteams are the only way to go.

 

It's either form a superteam, or get left in the dust.

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12 hours ago, DG_Now said:

 

The plus for LeBron is that he's played with lesser players and coaches and managed to be a good human being while Jordan took a pass on all of that. But I can do math too and see that 6 is more than 3. And that Jordan changed the game in ways LeBron didn't (and, really, couldn't).

 

I'm fine with Jordan being 1A and James being 1B, but I don't think there's as huge gap between those two as there is those two and everybody else.

 

This guy literally changed the game more than either of these candy-ass jabronis everyone's talking about today.  The real argument is who's 2a and 2b.  For my $, I've seen enough to say that Lebron is 2a... and I saw almost all Jordan national NBC and playoff games from '91 on, so I have some frame of reference. Lebron has to fight battles that Jordan never did, whether it's playing in the era of social media (Jordan would be considered a monster if camera phones and Twitter was around back then) or playing with crummy players, or never playing for a highly-regarded coach and having to do it himself, or playing in the era of the current CBA.

220px-Wilt_Chamberlain_100-point.jpg

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4 minutes ago, Dalcowboyfan92 said:

There is no parity in the NBA, and the league is so topheavy. As long as the NBA's Salary Cap is structured the way it is; superteams are the only way to go.

 

It's either form a superteam, or get left in the dust.

 

There is another way...

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13 hours ago, DG_Now said:

I'll never understand LeBron hate.

Almost as bad as Brady hate, amirite?

brock-lesnar-face-gif-1.gif

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I think if you truly think Jordan is “Head and shoulders” above Lebron, you’re either from Chicago, stuck in the Bush 1 administration, or both. And the notion that Kobe and Duncan are better than Lebron is downright laughable. Especially Kobe. 

 

Also, for how much the Warriors are “ruining the NBA!”, they sure aren’t hurting the ratings. NBA ratings are better in this current stretch than they have been in years. 

 

Ive said it before, but the NBA is the one sport where a dynasty is a good thing. There are so few players on the court at one time, and ONE GUY can completely change the dynamics of the season. The NBA has “too many dynasties”, but that’s by design. Despite what a lot of the haters are saying, these kinda of dynasties are good for the league. 

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1 hour ago, BringBackTheVet said:

 

This guy literally changed the game more than either of these candy-ass jabronis everyone's talking about today.  

220px-Wilt_Chamberlain_100-point.jpg

 

More people here need to consider Wilt. Rules and the fabric of the game changed because of this guy. Without Wilt, Jordan and Lebron wouldn’t have ascended in the way they did.

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Wilt is absolutely in my top 3, and I could even make an argument for him being #1 of all time. You are absolutely correct on that one. 

 

And for all of the “It was a lesser era!” talk, why does that hurt Wilt but it never seems to hurt guys like Babe Ruth? Wilt is, literally, the Babe Ruth of basketball. 

 

It’s never made much sense to me how baseball takes it’s legends and celebrates them at every turn, where basketball seems to kind of vilify every single non-Jordan superstar. The optics around the NBA are so weird. 

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6 minutes ago, Bucfan56 said:

Also, for how much the Warriors are “ruining the NBA!”, they sure aren’t hurting the ratings. NBA ratings are better in this current stretch than they have been in years. 

 

Ive said it before, but the NBA is the one sport where a dynasty is a good thing. There are so few players on the court at one time, and ONE GUY can completely change the dynamics of the season. The NBA has “too many dynasties”, but that’s by design. Despite what a lot of the haters are saying, these kinda of dynasties are good for the league. 

Plus, it helps that basketball is the most bandwagon friendly sport. A lot of people don't follow a team as much as they do a player. I remember one of those facebook maps where it broke down all of the fans of NBA teams based on county going around, and generally, outside of a team's specific market, the favorites were the Lakers, Celtics, or Cavaliers. Then LeBron moves to Miami, and suddenly the Cavaliers support disappears and those areas become Heat territory.

 

If you think the Warriors killed basketball, then maybe you just didn't like basketball all that much in the first place. And I fully expect that when the Grizzlies inevitably win the title next year, the same people bitching about the Warriors will then bitch about the lack of star power or some other bullcrap. Just the same as when people complained about teams full of ball hogs and how they wanted more team play and passing and defense, and then bitched when they got Spurs vs. Pistons.

 

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6 minutes ago, Bucfan56 said:

Wilt is absolutely in my top 3, and I could even make an argument for him being #1 of all time. You are absolutely correct on that one. 

 

And for all of the “It was a lesser era!” talk, why does that hurt Wilt but it never seems to hurt guys like Babe Ruth? Wilt is, literally, the Babe Ruth of basketball. 

 

It’s never made much sense to me how baseball takes it’s legends and celebrates them at every turn, where basketball seems to kind of vilify every single non-Jordan superstar. The optics around the NBA are so weird. 

Wilt and players of the 70s suffer from the revelations of rampant drug use. Chamberlain claiming over 10,000 partners doesn't work fpr a league that wants to make itself appear as the most socially conscious league in the world.

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9 hours ago, OaklandIsBack said:

 

You mean a team drafting 3 hall of famers (at 7, 11, and 35) ?

And begging another MVP in his prime to sign with them when three HoFers apparently weren't enough to beat a healthy LeBron team.

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:rolleyes:

 

The Warriors beat the Cavs in 2015 and the constant excuse is that “Lebron didn’t have enough of a supporting cast!”. Sorry, you can’t logically have it both ways on that one. 

 

 

Also, I seem to remember you taking a pretty hardline stance against Lebron forming the “Big 3” when it happened, too (and there were a lot of the same arguments made on that one as well). It’s interesting how you’ve kinda edited that narrative since. 

 

Really, if you like parity so much, then go watch hockey. You’re barking up the wrong tree if you expect the same from basketball. 

 

:Edited for clarity 

Edited by Bucfan56

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26 minutes ago, Bucfan56 said:

Wilt is absolutely in my top 3, and I could even make an argument for him being #1 of all time. You are absolutely correct on that one. 

 

And for all of the “It was a lesser era!” talk, why does that hurt Wilt but it never seems to hurt guys like Babe Ruth? Wilt is, literally, the Babe Ruth of basketball. 

 

It’s never made much sense to me how baseball takes it’s legends and celebrates them at every turn, where basketball seems to kind of vilify every single non-Jordan superstar. The optics around the NBA are so weird. 

The problem with Wilt's legacy is that his level of play always seemed to get worse (by his lofty standards) in the playoffs. For instance, his career PPG went from 30.1 in the regular season to 22.5 in the playoffs to 18.8 in the Finals. His free throw shooting, which was already infamously poor, went from .511 in the regular season to .465 in the playoffs to .385 in the Finals, and was a major liability in big games and clutch moments. There were several Game 7s where he got outscored by Sam Jones and outplayed by many of his teammates. That, as well as the perception of a "lesser era" (which also hurts Russell's legacy), is why Wilt isn't usually included in GOAT discussions.

 

However, I do agree that the way the NBA media and fans treat the history and the legends of their sport is ridiculous and unfair. The Jordan worship gets more absurd by the year. From how people make it sound, you'd think Jordan never missed a shot and never lost a game.

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Ok, that make’s sense. I think that may have something to do with the sample sizes getting smaller and smaller, but it’s still an interesting perspective, nonetheless. 

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