Stadium/Arena Saga Omnibus

[Sport]

I have this weird brain thing where anytime people start talking about Southern California geography my eyes go white and time jumps forward 57.3 seconds. 

[LMU]

7 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

I have this weird brain thing where anytime people start talking about Southern California geography my eyes go white and time jumps forward 57.3 seconds. 

[Burkell007]

36 minutes ago, LMU said:

The two square shapes just north of the Arena are parking structures. I could see those being dramatically expanded. I could also see a scenario where they demolish the Arena since they haven’t had a regular tenant since the Ice Dogs and only really schedule Disney on Ice anymore. A wrench is that the outside is painted with a Robert Wyland mural.  

 

There’s also two massive parking structures already in the area (5 and 7 stories respectively) less than a half mile west on Shoreline at the Aquarium so those can definitely be utilized.

 

 

And that’d the same Queen Mary.

Also better not affect the Indy car race there, with out that Long Beach is not what it is.

[pmoehrin]

On 2/26/2019 at 1:04 PM, LMU said:

The article cites that the land being offered is the parking lot of Long Beach Arena (aka the “Elephant Lot” as it’s where the circus animals were staged before and after shows).

 

 

And come to think of it a ballpark there would be perfect in terms that you already have a ballpark village in place with the Pike and the plethora of restaurants on Shoreline, you have three luxury hotels within a half mile, and the team would be even closer to the nearest airport (LGB vs SNA)

 

The footprint seems a little on the small side, but aside from that, I can't find any criticisms to offer on it.

 

If you're going to go to Long Beach, that's where you would want to go without question. In terms of accessibility and built-in infrastructure, it checks every box anyone could think of. I wouldn't even bother considering any other location in Long Beach if it were me.

 

But as I said before, the Angels are not the only ones with that location marked off as a potential development spot. We'll see what happens going forward.

[LMU]

32 minutes ago, lilben777 said:

Also better not affect the Indy car race there, with out that Long Beach is not what it is.

The Grand Prix seems to have been slowly declining. The celebrity race was axed a couple years back and Toyota bowed out as the title sponsor after last year’s race. The city getting 81 days of tax revenue vs one weekend might be the final nail in the coffin.

[raysox]

1 minute ago, LMU said:

The Grand Prix seems to have been slowly declining. The celebrity race was axed a couple years back and Toyota bowed out as the title sponsor after last year’s race. The city getting 81 days of tax revenue vs one weekend might be the final nail in the coffin.

To be fair, Toyota doesn't run in IndyCar anymore so it might be because of that. Acura now sponsors the race. Long Beach GP is still seen as one of the biggest races of the year, and even more they've looked into hosting F1 instead semi recently. Plus changing the layout of the track isn't necessarily unheard of http://racingcircuits.info/north-america/usa/long-beach.html#.XHWW31NKjOQ

 

Also for a quick second I thought about the prospect of naming them the California Angels, before I realized they're Los Angeles still

[Brian in Boston]

18 minutes ago, raysox said:

Also for a quick second I thought about the prospect of naming them the California Angels, before I realized they're Los Angeles still

 

Long Beach is, indeed, in Los Angeles County.

[Gothamite]

So "Los Angeles Angels" can stay.

 

I worked in Long Beach a couple times in the 1990s, and traffic on the 710 was worse than anything I saw going out to Orange County.  I know that was a long time ago, but LA traffic doesn't tend to get better over time.  Any current residents have an option on the 710?

[Still MIGHTY]

Having lived/went to school in Long Beach (Go Dirtbags), despite how cool a waterfront stadium could be, I think traffic and parking would be an absolute NIGHTMARE.

 

There is a LA Metro line (Blue Line) that ends not terribly far from the site, so that could help a little, and it would connect the Angels with the rest of Los Angeles that Arte Moreno so dearly craves. (Although parking at the stations above the terminus isn't terribly plentiful or they're in Compton.) But as admiral said, it's Southern California. People can't not drive their cars. There are those parking structures nearby, but also having used those, they'd have to be expanded and it could cause a great congestion.

 

And I can only imagine that Shoreline Drive on/off ramp to the 710. It's currently a construction hell as it is right there as they modify/enhance/repair those roads as it turns into the Port of Long Beach and is overloaded with 18-wheelers.

 

Plus, as mentioned, you build this and you're essentially killing off the Long Beach Grand Prix. Also using that site/demolishing the arena for parking would also put a major kink in the Long Beach portion of the 2028 LA Olympics:

 

 

That area with the water polo pool and the BMX facility is the site they're initially putting forth in this Angels offer. Handball would take place in the arena in the bottom right.

 

But yes, just look at that area right there, and you say, damn, that would be a beautiful spot to put a stadium. It's a fine initial idea. But there's a lonnnnnnnnggggggggg way to go with this stuff. Anaheim still looks like the preferred spot to stay, and things like this are just barely twinkles in some Mayor's eye at this point.

[WSU151]

I think Arte said recently he wasn’t a fan of parking garages...something along the lines of “It sucks when you’re on the 4th level and waiting forever to get out”. 

 

Ahh here it is: https://www.latimes.com/sports/angels/la-sp-angels-spring-training-20190218-story.html?outputType=amp

[GDAWG]

The Angels will probably resolve their stadium issues before the A's and Rays do. 

[The_Admiral]

My guess is that they're in Anaheim to stay and that Angel Stadium will continue to undergo Ship of Theseus-level renovations. The Long Beach plan just feels like too much of a stretch.

[FiddySicks]

I just wonder how valuable the piece of land Angels Stadium is sitting on when Disney is pretty much constantly looking to expand. It might be in the cities best interest to let them move, actually. The Angels have a lot of financial heft to throw around, and a pretty solid set of home dates in which to earn money. But how does that compare to a Disney park that operates 365 days a year? California Adventure has been a pretty big success for Disney (At least I think it has), and the space they’re in now is getting pretty crowded. 

 

EDIT: After researching it some more, the thought I had that’s a California Adventure is a success may not be quite right. It still pulls in money like crazy (as everything Disney does), but they’ve also poured over a billion dollars into fixing some of the original mistakes. 

 

This might make that Angels Stadium property even more valuable, though. Especially with the fairly recent addition of the Star Wars properties and licenses. 

[kolob]

51 minutes ago, Bucfan56 said:

I just wonder how valuable the piece of land Angels Stadium is sitting on when Disney is pretty much constantly looking to expand. It might be in the cities best interest to let them move, actually. The Angels have a lot of financial heft to throw around, and a pretty solid set of home dates in which to earn money. But how does that compare to a Disney park that operates 365 days a year? California Adventure has been a pretty big success for Disney (At least I think it has), and the space they’re in now is getting pretty crowded. 

 

EDIT: After researching it some more, the thought I had that’s a California Adventure is a success may not be quite right. It still pulls in money like crazy (as everything Disney does), but they’ve also poured over a billion dollars into fixing some of the original mistakes. 

 

This might make that Angels Stadium property even more valuable, though. Especially with the fairly recent addition of the Star Wars properties and licenses. 

 

And, there has been rumors of a third Anaheim Disney Park for years. That’s a whole different story and discussion. But, that area would be a good location for a third park. With that all said, I just don’t see the Angels moving. Look how difficult it is to get any arena or stadium deal done in California.

[Cosmic]

3 hours ago, Bucfan56 said:

EDIT: After researching it some more, the thought I had that’s a California Adventure is a success may not be quite right. It still pulls in money like crazy (as everything Disney does), but they’ve also poured over a billion dollars into fixing some of the original mistakes. 

 

This might make that Angels Stadium property even more valuable, though. Especially with the fairly recent addition of the Star Wars properties and licenses. 

No analogy is perfect, but DCA 1.0 was like the fish stick jersey of the theme park world. It was notoriously built on the cheap, and reinvented a concept that didn't need reinventing. The money they spent fixing it was plausibly what should have been spent initially + reasonable expansion that could have happened even if the park was successful. IMO the most money to be made from the stadium land is to sell the bulk of the land to Disney, while leaving some outparcels for third parties to bid on for hotels. The only problem would be getting the third-party hotels in a fortuitous spot, rather than next to the horse barn.

[WSU151]

I don't think the Angel Stadium site is large enough for a third Disney park. Yes there's a crapload of parking spaces, but Disney would need to save them for its own parking. 

 

The stadium footprint would be good enough for maybe three or four rides, plus all the shops, restaurants, hotels, and other crap that a Disney park regularly has. Plus, with the site on the other side of I-5 and not adjacent to Disneyland, it'd be pretty awkward,

[Cosmic]

10 minutes ago, WSU151 said:

I don't think the Angel Stadium site is large enough for a third Disney park. Yes there's a crapload of parking spaces, but Disney would need to save them for its own parking. 

 

The stadium footprint would be good enough for maybe three or four rides, plus all the shops, restaurants, hotels, and other crap that a Disney park regularly has. Plus, with the site on the other side of I-5 and not adjacent to Disneyland, it'd be pretty awkward,

http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=33.805504&lon=-117.899137&z=15

 

You could absolutely fit another park with that sea of surface parking surrounding the stadium. Connecting it to the rest of the Disney resort area and dealing with the city would be the questions. Disney has already shown that parking garages are a viable option for them, so parking can go up instead of out.

[LMU]

4 hours ago, Cosmic said:

No analogy is perfect, but DCA 1.0 was like the fish stick jersey of the theme park world. It was notoriously built on the cheap, and reinvented a concept that didn't need reinventing. The money they spent fixing it was plausibly what should have been spent initially + reasonable expansion that could have happened even if the park was successful. IMO the most money to be made from the stadium land is to sell the bulk of the land to Disney, while leaving some outparcels for third parties to bid on for hotels. The only problem would be getting the third-party hotels in a fortuitous spot, rather than next to the horse barn.

California Adventure also made the mistake of blowing off its loyal local customer base. There really wasn’t anything to draw Californians there more than once when all the park did was served as a dumbed down Chamber of Commerce version of the state without any real Disney connection. 

[pmoehrin]

10 hours ago, Bucfan56 said:

I just wonder how valuable the piece of land Angels Stadium is sitting on when Disney is pretty much constantly looking to expand. It might be in the cities best interest to let them move, actually. 

 

 

That's basically what the city told the team during the lease negotiations and the Angels threw a fit over it.

 

A Disney expansion is just one option of what you could do with that land. You look at what's around there on a map, you could justify building almost anything there.

 

If the Angels leave, whether it be Disney or somebody else, the city of Anaheim is not going to be at a loss for finding potential developers.

[monkeypower]

Maybe this is more of discussion for the Theme Park thread, but I always found the Angel Stadium location to be a weird spot for Disney expansion. I think it's too far from Disneyland for it to be like a third park in the Disneyland resort but yet too close for it to be a completely different thing.

 

(Maybe it could be like Disney World with the multiple parks spread out, I've never been there, but I think it would at least be slightly different because all those are located on the same compound and not in the middle of a city.)