MLB Stadium Saga: Oakland/Tampa Bay/Southside

[GDAWG]

2 hours ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

 

Nowhere. Let's put contraction back on the table.

 

Major League Baseball Players Association:

 

 

[DoctorWhom]

I'm absolutely shocked MLB realized a terrible idea was a terrible idea. 

[gosioux76]

15 hours ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

 

Because I don't believe in the long-term health of the league. Too many stadiums are mostly empty. There aren't great baseball markets out there waiting for new stadium construction. I don't believe that RSNs are a long-term sustainable solution to funding franchises, and while I'm ignorant on MLB's national TV distribution deals, I can't imagine they come close to footballs. 

 

MLB just cannibalized its farm system. The league doesn't advertise a guy (Mike Trout) who might be a top ten all-time player. The playoffs are unnecessarily restricted. The Braves should have been disqualified from the playoffs for crimes against fiscal sense and civic spirit. 

 

Now I'm just complaining about baseball, but the spirit of the argument is the whole thing seems poorly managed (it's in a lockout right now!) and I feel like the owners are sacrificing the future to keep windfalls of today going as long as they can.

 

I have similar frustrations with the United States of America, and think contraction is a good idea there too.

 

I agree with almost all of this, save for MLB's culpability in marketing Mike Trout. I think what we've seen of Mike Trout is largely due to MLB's efforts. At some point, the player has to want it. 

[McCall]

21 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

 

It also doesn't help that he's the most boring man in the universe. I'd be all for him having a Lenny Dykstra or Oil Can Boyd-level meltdown if it meant he did something exciting.

Yeah, because being one of the top-10 all-time players is still a failure if you don't end up in prison, or at least the psych ward with Antonio Brown.

[SFGiants58]

22 minutes ago, McCall said:

Yeah, because being one of the top-10 all-time players is still a failure if you don't end up in prison, or at least the psych ward with Antonio Brown.

 

Look at his career and his very brief solitary playoff appearance (in the second wild card era). He has played in nearly zero Games That Mattered. Baseball's history would be unchanged if he didn't exist. 

 

He should've demanded a trade out of Anaheim or left in free agency, but he didn't have the guts to accept less money to escape the horrible situation that is Arte Moreno's Angels.

[Matthew24]

2 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

 

Look at his career and his very brief solitary playoff appearance (in the second wild card era). He has played in nearly zero Games That Mattered. Baseball's history would be unchanged if he didn't exist. 

 

He should've demanded a trade out of Anaheim or left in free agency, but he didn't have the guts to accept less money to escape the horrible situation that is Arte Moreno's Angels.

Doubt he even want to leave. He probably happy being in Anaheim compared to Oakland.

[McCall]

7 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

 

Look at his career and his very brief solitary playoff appearance (in the second wild card era). He has played in nearly zero Games That Mattered. Baseball's history would be unchanged if he didn't exist. 

 

He should've demanded a trade out of Anaheim or left in free agency, but he didn't have the guts to accept less money to escape the horrible situation that is Arte Moreno's Angels.

It's up to him. If he's happy there or wants to be there, it's his decision. Nobody else's. Would I love to have him on the Cardinals? Hell yes. What fan wouldn't want the best player in the league on his team? But I'm not gonna think less of him or his level of greatness simply because he's chosen to stay with one team.

[spartacat_12]

23 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

I do. What I'm saying is that DC should have gotten an expansion team in the '90s. Therefore, the Expos wouldn't move to DC and would have folded instead.

 

Expanding the league then folding a different franchise right after is a bush-league move that would feel like extorting expansion fees from owners.

 

Contraction in general completely kills a league's credibility, especially when you have several markets without teams that would gladly support a team.

 

At the end of the day, the nature of baseball as a sport is bad for business. You have at least 81 home games, many of which are played in the middle of the day during the week, and you have no clock. The season covers the entire summer, when there are many other things to occupy people's time. Outside of maybe 5 or 6 markets, you can't expect teams to be selling out every game.

[gosioux76]

9 minutes ago, McCall said:

It's up to him. If he's happy there or wants to be there, it's his decision. Nobody else's. Would I love to have him on the Cardinals? Hell yes. What fan wouldn't want the best player in the league on his team? But I'm not gonna think less of him or his level of greatness simply because he's chosen to stay with one team.

 

I agree with this. But at the same time, being the best player in the league while having absolutely no team success to show for it will ultimately tarnish his legacy, and take some of the shine off all that talent.  It's not fair, of course. Baseball's a different sport, and it's much harder for one player to carry a team. But it is fair for fans of the sport to look at the Angels' failure to build a winner around Trout, and Trout's subsequent loyalty to the market, and question whether he has that desire to be a winner. 

 

[rams80]

$37 million for complete anonymity and the chance to play a sport?  man sign me up for that; I can buy a jeweler with the change in my couch cushions if I want a ring.

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

 

 

On 1/20/2022 at 4:12 PM, Wings2 said:

I'll say this: The Rockies, Marlins, Rays & Diamondbacks probably should've never happened. 

 

I'll agree with 75% of this.  Florida and Arizona are for spring training.  But Denver is a legit city for Major League Baseball, one which had been part of Bill Shea's and Branch Rickey's Continental League in 1959.

 

 

 

On 1/20/2022 at 3:45 PM, SFGiants58 said:

Getting rid of the Rays and A's sounds like something that should've been done about 20 years ago.

 

That is an affront to history, from someone who should know better.  The A's are an original American League team, dating to 1901.  If contraction were to happen, then the idea of dumping any of the original eight A.L. teams or any of the eight N.L. teams that remained after that league's 1899 contraction is strictly out of order.  Limit contraction to expansion teams.

 

 

 

On 1/20/2022 at 3:58 PM, Matthew24 said:

I would get rid of the Rays and A's instead of the Marlins. At least the Marlins won two World Series two out of the three playoff [appearances]. The A's have nothing to live for...

 

Oh, the Marlins won two World Series, did they?  That's cute.

 

The A's have won nine World Series!  Even if you consider only the Series that they won in Oakland (which, in the name of Connie Mack's straw hat, you definitely should not do), that would make four — as in double the amount won by the Marlins.  Do not even dare to compare the venerable A's, who are in the company of the Yankees and the Cardinals, with a cheesy expansion team that didn't play its first game until the A's were nearly a century old.  

 

 

 

On 1/21/2022 at 3:44 PM, SFGiants58 said:

[Trout] has played in nearly zero Games That Mattered. Baseball's history would be unchanged if he didn't exist. 

 

He should've demanded a trade out of Anaheim or left in free agency, but he didn't have the guts to accept less money to escape the horrible situation that is Arte Moreno's Angels.

 

Yow.  This is the second seriously bad take from you.  You are really not having a good thread here.

I know I don't have to remind you about Ernie Banks.  Surely you wouldn't call him irrelevant to baseball history just because he never played in the postseason.   Nor would you say that about Rocky Colavito.

 

Trout has played in one postseason series.  And he has stayed with one team for his whole career.  This puts him in the company of bums such as Don Mattingly and Ted Williams.

 

 

 

On 1/21/2022 at 3:50 PM, McCall said:

It's up to him. If he's happy there [with the Angels] or wants to be there, it's his decision. Nobody else's. Would I love to have him on the Cardinals? Hell yes. What fan wouldn't want the best player in the league on his team? But I'm not gonna think less of him or his level of greatness simply because he's chosen to stay with one team.

Right.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with a player staying with one team.  If that team doesn't wind up winning pennants, then the blame belongs with the ownership and with the front office, not with the best player.  I certainly don't begrudge any player changing teams to chase rings.  More power to such players, such as Rickey Henderson and David Cone, not to mention Reggie Jackson and Dave Winfield.  But no player has the obligation to do that; and a one-team career deserves great respect.

 

 

 

On 1/21/2022 at 8:54 AM, gosioux76 said:

I think what we've seen of Mike Trout is largely due to MLB's efforts. At some point, the player has to want it. 

 

Likewise deserving of respect is the choice not to do promos or endorsements.  Simply playing the game at a high level is enough.

[Matthew24]

12 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

Oh, the Marlins won two World Series, did they?  That's cute.

 

The A's have won nine World Series!  Even if you consider only the Series that they won in Oakland (which, in the name of Connie Mack's straw hat, you definitely should not do), that would make four — as in double the amount won by the Marlins.  Do not even dare to compare the venerable A's, who are in the company of the Yankees and the Cardinals, with a cheesy expansion team that didn't play its first game until the A's were nearly a century old.  

Okay buddy.. please calm down.

 

I mean as if we look at todays MLB and not all-time. The Mariners last championship was in 2003 where the A's haven't won any since 1989. The Mariners management isn't a complete dumpster fire compared to the A's are right now. I rather see the A's fold or at least go dormant for now then be relocated to Las Vegas. 

[DEAD!]

14 minutes ago, Matthew24 said:

Okay buddy.. please calm down.

 

I mean as if we look at todays MLB and not all-time. The Mariners last championship was in 2003 where the A's haven't won any since 1989. The Mariners management isn't a complete dumpster fire compared to the A's are right now. I rather see the A's fold or at least go dormant for now then be relocated to Las Vegas. 

I mean no disrespect.... but..... The Mariners?.....

[waltere]

1 hour ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

This puts him in the company of bums such as Don Mattingly and Ted Williams.

 

Not disputing the wider point, but worth mentioning that they did play in eras were much fewer teams made the playoffs

[Matthew24]

24 minutes ago, DEAD! said:

I mean no disrespect.... but..... The Mariners?.....

Never said it was the best team. But I like to at least keep one team in Florida if I had a choice.

[LMU]

48 minutes ago, Matthew24 said:

Never said it was the best team. But I like to at least keep one team in Florida if I had a choice.

If that's the case you're off by exactly 2,729 miles.

[Matthew24]

47 minutes ago, LMU said:

If that's the case you're off by exactly 2,729 miles.

okay...

 

I'm gonna just move on from this... Never said I have a great opinion, it was my opinion. That all I will say.

Edited January 22, 2022 by Matthew24

[SFGiants58]

I stand by my weird takes, Mike Trout bashing and all. 
 

3 hours ago, rams80 said:

$37 million for complete anonymity and the chance to play a sport?  man sign me up for that; I can buy a jeweler with the change in my couch cushions if I want a ring.

 

That’s entirely fair, but don’t call him an all-time great when he anonymously compiled stats on a team he knew would struggle to get to .500. At least Barry Sanders, Calvin Johnson, and the aforementioned pre-playoffs baseball stars could sniff contention on a regular basis. At least those guys had more personality than the milquetoast Mike. 
 

Baseball needs somebody compelling like Jeter, Bonds, or even Bryce Harper to be the best player. Even guys like Brady and LeBron, as machine-like as they are, never were the boredom that was Mike Trout. 
 

But back to the Rays - Stu seemed so broken-hearted when MLB told him to shove his plan up his intestinum crassum.

[ManillaToad]

23 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

That’s entirely fair, but don’t call him an all-time great when he anonymously compiled stats on a team he knew would struggle to get to .500. At least Barry Sanders, Calvin Johnson, and the aforementioned pre-playoffs baseball stars could sniff contention on a regular basis. At least those guys had more personality than the milquetoast Mike.

 

 

Calvin Johnson made the playoffs 2 times in 9 seasons

[DEAD!]

28 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

I stand by my weird takes, Mike Trout bashing and all. 
 

That’s entirely fair, but don’t call him an all-time great when he anonymously compiled stats on a team he knew would struggle to get to .500. At least Barry Sanders, Calvin Johnson, and the aforementioned pre-playoffs baseball stars could sniff contention on a regular basis. At least those guys had more personality than the milquetoast Mike. 

Barry Sanders has more playoff wins than Mike Trout.... 

 

  There is one player the Angels have that is worth watching...  Ohtani