Stadium/Arena Saga Omnibus

[pmoehrin]

1 hour ago, BottomlessPitt said:

41. Raleigh 

 

I agree with most of what the Census Bureau does, but I don't know why Raleigh and Durham would be considered two separate metro areas.

They share an airport, it's less than 30 miles between the two cities, and there's no natural or state border diving the two cities. Chatman County is considered part of the Durham metro area, but it's no further to get to Durham than to get to Raleigh from there.

 

They don't separate Tacoma from Seattle on a metro level, and they're just as far apart from each other.

 

Maybe someone from the area can explain because I don't get it.

[Fowler2]

13 minutes ago, pmoehrin said:

 

I agree with most of what the Census Bureau does, but I don't know why Raleigh and Durham would be considered two separate metro areas.

They share an airport, it's less than 30 miles between the two cities, and there's no natural or state border diving the two cities. Chatman County is considered part of the Durham metro area, but it's no further to get to Durham than to get to Raleigh from there.

 

They don't separate Tacoma from Seattle on a metro level, and they're just as far apart from each other.

 

Maybe someone from the area can explain because I don't get it.

 

It's like that with San Jose as well. It's a separate market from San Francisco-Oakland as a MSA but is still lumped in with SF-OAK as a TV Market. Weird stuff. 

[B-Rich]

22 minutes ago, BottomlessPitt said:

 

It's like that with San Jose as well. It's a separate market from San Francisco-Oakland as a MSA but is still lumped in with SF-OAK as a TV Market. Weird stuff. 

 

38 minutes ago, pmoehrin said:

 

I agree with most of what the Census Bureau does, but I don't know why Raleigh and Durham would be considered two separate metro areas.

They share an airport, it's less than 30 miles between the two cities, and there's no natural or state border diving the two cities. Chatman County is considered part of the Durham metro area, but it's no further to get to Durham than to get to Raleigh from there.

 

They don't separate Tacoma from Seattle on a metro level, and they're just as far apart from each other.

 

Maybe someone from the area can explain because I don't get it.

 

 

This stuff has ALWAYS made absolutely no sense, and today with the growth in areas like the Research Triangle, it makes even less. 

Salt Lake City's TV market includes basically all of the state, including St. George, which is 302 miles / 4.5 hours away, and where I saw Las Vegas Raiders gear for sale when I was there 4 years ago (they are MUCH closer to Vegas than SLC). 

Meanwhile , in New Orleans, we have nearby places an hour away, where a considerable amount of people COMMUTE from and go to New Orleans to work (Mississippi Gulf Coast, Baton Rouge, Houma-Thibodaux) but those are considered their own MSAs and TV markets.  They and cities a little further away, like Lafayette, Alexandria, Hattiesburg) are also full of Saints fans and now, to some degree Pelicans fans. 

It's certainly not an apples-to-apples situation. 

[pmoehrin]

1 hour ago, BottomlessPitt said:

It's like that with San Jose as well. It's a separate market from San Francisco-Oakland as a MSA but is still lumped in with SF-OAK as a TV Market. Weird stuff. 

 

I could understand splitting San Jose off from San Francisco because it's served by its own airport, and it's almost 60 miles between San Francisco and San Jose. That's not really that close, but there's definitely a connection between the two cities, hence the CSA designation, which I 100% agree with.

 

41 minutes ago, B-Rich said:

Meanwhile , in New Orleans, we have nearby places an hour away, where a considerable amount of people COMMUTE from and go to New Orleans to work (Mississippi Gulf Coast, Baton Rouge, Houma-Thibodaux) but those are considered their own MSAs and TV markets.  They and cities a little further away, like Lafayette, Alexandria, Hattiesburg) are also full of Saints fans and now, to some degree Pelicans fans. 

 

In the Northeast, it's pretty much like pulling teeth to get people to travel more than 25 miles from their home. Obviously, I'm generalizing here. But once you get west of the Mississippi, people won't give a second thought to driving 70 minutes to the grocery store.

 

So, I can 100% believe that in a state like Louisiana, a two-hour drive from Acadiana to New Orleans is seen as nothing. How willing people are to commute is usually inversely correlated to how much money they make, and once you get north of I-10, you go from below-average incomes to some of the dirt poorest regions in the country.

[FrutigerAero]

On 3/1/2024 at 2:34 PM, BottomlessPitt said:

Selected markets that don't have an MLB team at the moment:

 

Metro Rankinkgs

22. Orlando

23. Charlotte 

24. San Antonio 

25. Portland 

28. Sacramento 

29. Las Vegas

34. Indianapolis 

35. Nashville 

41. Raleigh 

46. Salt Lake City 

 

 

TV Market Rankings

16. Orlando

20. Sacramento 

21. Charlotte 

22. Raleigh

23. Portland

25. Indianapolis 

26. Nashville 

27. Salt Lake City

31. San Antonio 

40. Las Vegas

 

To me this shows that SLC is probably THE #1 spot (for NOW), possibly exceeding Nashville.

 

-Florida is not getting another MLB team*... lol.

-Charlotte isn't getting a team if Nashville is (though, I think that they are possibly better option than Nashville), same with Raleigh.

-Sacramento was only good for A's relocation

-It seems unlikely they go for another Texas team, seems very possible the Rangers and the Astros could push back on that (though again, I think they are a good option).

-Indianapolis... they would be another rust belt team.

 

Their only rival is Portland, and I think they edge out Portland with bigger local backing.  The thing that I can really see tipping the scales on this is if Phil Knight the Nike guy decides he wants to own a team... if that happens, game over SLC.  But that isn't even rumored right now.

 

SLC is rolling out the red carpet and has their stuff together in the way the A's were wishing Vegas did.

 

Honestly if I were MLB in 2010 with the benefit of foresight, here's what I would do:

-Move the Marlins to Las Vegas instead of LoanDepot park Ca. 2012.  I look like a genius when gambling is more legalized and I beat out the VGK and the Raiders.

-Move the A's to Sacramento or San Jose (would pay lots of $$$ to giants)...  Sorry but only for sentimental reasons would you keep them in Oakland.  I'd try to pull off Sacramento because that lets you "keep" their existing bay fanbase while kind of picking up a new area for MLB.

-Expand to Salt Lake City and one of those Kentucky/NC areas.

 

 

 

*If the Rays' situation doesn't settle they could end up in Orlando, however.

[McCall]

1 hour ago, FrutigerAero said:

To me this shows that SLC is probably THE #1 spot (for NOW), possibly exceeding Nashville.

No, they're not. Nashville is still the top choice (assuming Las Vegas as being off the list) with Montreal still probably 2nd. Next tier would be Portland (who has been trending downward for several years now), San Antonio and Charlotte. Salt Lake may be on that level, but primarily because they're new and making a lot of noise for expansion via being a temporary home for the A's. Doesn't necessarily mean they've jumped to or near the top of the list.

[Fowler2]

With tax payers already burdened with paying for a new billion dollar stadium for the Titans and possible future refurbishments to the Predators arena and Nashville SC's stadium, it's going to be interesting to see if an MLB park can be built in Nashville. 

[FiddySicks]

I have to wonder though if local corporate money would be an issue with SLC. I don’t have any real idea what their corporate base is out there, but for a place like Sacramento, that’s probably the very biggest hurdle. The biggest employer in the city is the state government, and there really isn’t much in terms of large corporations willing to throw their money at a pro sports team. Sacramento Republic had a lot of issues, but that lack of local corporate support is probably what ultimately killed their MLS bid. 
 

I would assume Salt Lake is going to run into similar problems. Their biggest employer (as far as I know) is the state university system, and the only very big companies around are places like US Magnesium which… Yikes. You do NOT what someone like that as your primary sponsorship partner. 
 

Also, similar to Vegas is, lol,  water. That’s going to be an issue eventually with that rapid growth. 
 

 

 

Like I said before, we REALLY don’t need MLB expansion. It’s already bloated. 

 

[Digby]

6 minutes ago, FiddySicks said:

I have to wonder though if local corporate money would be an issue with SLC.

it’s basically beginning and ending with: how much money can we convince Ryan Smith to contribute?

 

My big takeaway from this conversation is that there aren’t really any good ideas for expansion or relocation. 

[Fowler2]

I think the Carolinas (Charlotte or Raleigh) is probably the best spot. 

[BBTV]

There is 0.0% chance of a permanent MLB team in SLC.  I'll change my user name to "I__am_a_flaming_Dbag" for a year (like we made that one guy do) if it happens.

 

Let's take it to the next level: "I_am_a_flaming_communist_dbag_whore".  We can pressure the 30ish members of the XII to get that cleared.

[LMU]

1 hour ago, BBTV said:

There is 0.0% chance of a permanent MLB team in SLC.  I'll change my user name to "I__am_a_flaming_Dbag" for a year (like we made that one guy do) if it happens.

 

Let's take it to the next level: "I_am_a_flaming_communist_dbag_whore".  We can pressure the 30ish members of the XII to get that cleared.

[throwuascenario]

On 3/1/2024 at 5:56 PM, pmoehrin said:

 

I agree with most of what the Census Bureau does, but I don't know why Raleigh and Durham would be considered two separate metro areas.

They share an airport, it's less than 30 miles between the two cities, and there's no natural or state border diving the two cities. Chatman County is considered part of the Durham metro area, but it's no further to get to Durham than to get to Raleigh from there.

 

They don't separate Tacoma from Seattle on a metro level, and they're just as far apart from each other.

 

Maybe someone from the area can explain because I don't get it.

 

I am from the area and I don't consider Durham to be in the Raleigh metro but I can't fully explain why.

 

Also, I think Raleigh would be a better market for MLB than Charlotte. Charlotte is less risky because of its much larger population and is overall a nicer city. But Raleigh has clearly shown itself to be a far superior sports market. The area has a top 5 in attendance NHL team, a top 5 in attendance MiLB team, and 2-3 college basketball and football teams that get high pro level support. Charlotte's two teams are notoriously two of the least supported teams in their leagues. And I say that as a fan of both.

[pmoehrin]

1 hour ago, throwuascenario said:

I am from the area and I don't consider Durham to be in the Raleigh metro but I can't fully explain why.

 

There is a clear difference between what the two regions do. Raleigh is a traditional, modern American city. Office-centric and with numerous research hubs in the surrounding area, just like Charlotte.

Durham is a clear manufacturing hub that also specializes in pharmaceuticals and healthcare. Duke has a medical school, NC State does not. But even these tend to bring in a lot of blue-collar jobs. You still need people to mop the floors of the hospitals and labs and provide cafeteria food.

 

There is a clear difference there, but the same dynamic exists in many other places where the metro areas aren't split. That's why I'm curious as to why here but not there. They're in the same state, share the same airport, and I don't see a natural geographic border. 540 appears to be the effective border between the two cities.

[Burmy]

G'dA's, mate!

[TrueYankee26]

[FrutigerAero]

Pretty exciting to see an MLB concept not from populus, the company that has designed basically every other stadium the past 20 years.  I really like it.  It's a really smart use of natural light and everything.  Well done on their part.  Still is strange how they have not released as detailed plans as the Kansas City Royals (who had a great concept that isn't even approved yet).  Ballys initially claimed that they were building a big casino next to this so strange to hear silence from them on this, as I had assumed we were waiting on them for more stadium details.  Brodie Brazil will be asking where the casino is and if this can really fit on 9 acres lol.

 

However, I'm not a pure hater.  As an architectural concept for a baseball stadium on the strip it's really good.  Trying to look like the Sydney Opera House fits into Vegas' fakery and the view is really good, I didn't think they would manage a view.

[Dynasty]

1 hour ago, TrueYankee26 said:

 

I was just gonna bring this up in a joke about how Las Vegas houses replicas of other well-known international structures (Statue of Liberty, Eiffel Tower). "We'll have the Sydney Opera House, too!"

[GDAWG]

2 hours ago, Burmy said:

G'dA's, mate!

 

Just one rule MLB fans should request from this ballpark: Ban Zack Hample.  

[Digby]

I am so, so tired of gigantic screens bigger than the playing surface. Everyone has tiny screens and then there's also huge screens. It's all too much.