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2 hours ago, Marlins93 said:

My point is more along the lines that the stadium is still technically brand spanking new and logistically speaking it does not seem realistic for MLB to even consider relocation. The city and county would also fight it tooth and nail even if the financing arrangement was controversial. MLB isn't going to abandon a brand new, state of the art ballpark because of low attendance figures that can most readily attributed to distasteful ownership practices.

 

MLB teams in Florida face a lot of obstacles that other regions don't, but the stadium itself sure seems like the anchor that would prevent relocation. This is what could keep the Marlins in Florida and force the Rays to relocate, even if the latter has a more competent front office.

They'll consider relocation if not even 10,000 people can be bothered to show up for games. 7 years old isn't what I'd call "state of the art", and we're seeing stadiums get replaced quicker and quicker every year. The city can fight it all they want, if there's no prevention clause in the contract between the city and team, there's nothing legally wrong with the Marlins packing up tomorrow. Even if there's better ownership, the point is that the people of Miami don't care all that much. Other teams that are struggling just as much, like the Royals and Orioles, are still averaging much better numbers than the Marlins or Rays. I don't want to see the Marlins relocate, but it seems to be in the best interest of the MLB that they do. I hope I'm wrong, the new owners are much better, and people actually show up, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

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16 hours ago, tohasbo said:

 

 

Yeah, that has me nervous too.  It's not really about the team wanting to break the lease as much as it has a LOT more to do with doing the major upgrades it does need.  However Maricopa County is not willing to play ball.  It still is a nice stadium but from what I have gathered, it is lacking in areas.  Last I heard the team wanted north of $60M in upgrades, but again, Maricopa County doesn't want to foot the entire bill for it  (which I understand why).

But this article does not leave a lot of hope for me.  The last time I saw a game out there was in 2000 when I was 14 and that is when I for certain became a fan of the team despite living in the DC area.  I seriously hope the team does not move out of Phoenix because it is, from what I remember, in a good location in the city.

I think it has a LOT more to do with the fact that the Diamondbacks want a new stadium that is smaller, in the suburbs, and where they own the surrounding land to control and turn in to a retail destination. Similar to a Westgate in Glendale or like the Braves new stadium and their "The Battery Atlanta" Entertainment District. And, they would probably like it to be in either Scottsdale or on Reservation land that is near their Spring Training area.

 

The problems with the stadium aren't anywhere near as bad as they seem, that’s the narrative the team has put out there to gain public support for the need for a new stadium. Ultimately there were disagreements between the team and the county over the terms of their lease and what certain provisions meant and who had what responsibility. Diamondbacks wanted more control of the building, like when they could occupy the building, what repairs to make, and be in charge of booking outside events. And money from outside event bookings would go to the repair fund, which the county hadn't been doing a good job of booking events from my understanding. Diamondbacks were totally in the right for wanting that control, but I believe they went about it in a very poor way.

 

Since gaining control of the stadium over a year ago they've hardly spent near the amount that they claimed was necessary to spend before this season began. It appears that their claims of the 22 year old Chase Field falling apart before our eyes weren't as drastic as it seems.

 

But you're absolutely right, it's in a great location. Especially with the revival and grow in downtown Phoenix.

 

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2019/02/14/arizona-diamondbacks-have-made-almost-no-repairs-chase-field/2817491002/

 

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Marlins aren’t gonna relocate because it’s not in the best interest of the league. It’s such a hassle, and what better market is there besides Miami? New Orleans and Portland are the only two I can see that could support the team. But Nola ran the Babycakes out of town, so maybe they aren’t even a good destination. Unless you want to add another team to a city that already has one, but even that wouldn’t work, a) all the big markets have two teams, LA, NYC, Chicago. b)adding another team to those markets is ridiculous. 

 

So if the Marlins did relocate it would be worse than anything that happens in Miami. Making it the worst intrest for the league.

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12 hours ago, Bucfan56 said:

 

To be perfectly honest with you? No, they haven’t. The amount of taxpayer money they’ve already hemorrhaged in just two decades is one of the biggest reasons they’re having such an issue with the current ballpark, and one of the main sticking points when it comes to future public funding. The team itself has had some good years, no doubt. But it’s only masked the true depth of some of their problems. Their overall low attendance numbers and cost of maintaining facilities in a climate that’s about ten miles from the surface of the sun make them pretty much unsustainable in the long run. 

 

 

I’ll even go this far. Don’t be terribly surprised if the next team to move out of their market entirely isn’t the Rays, but the D Backs. Maricopa County is one of the most shortsighted local governments in the country, and taxpayers are sick of funding these kind of frivolous endeavors. 

 

What?

I'm sorry, how have they not worked out? Yeah, they wanted more money from the county but ultimately it was about control of the stadium. And what professional sports team hasn't asked or demanded more money from the public? I fail to see how that situation is different from any other city in America.

 

I doubt the costs of maintaining Chase Field are astronomically more than many other professional sports stadiums. All buildings need upkeep and maintenance. And the hot and dry climate of Phoenix creates wear and tear on buildings, just like any other climate and weather conditions can cause wear and tear on a building located on planet Earth. The point is, the climate in Phoenix isn't that unsuitable for maintaining structures. Otherwise, 5 million people wouldn't live here.

 

Also, since 2000 the Diamondbacks have ranked on average 17.4 for league attendance. And many years ranking above 'traditional' baseball markets. Seems like their attendance isn't an issue, they're middle of the pack. \

 

Where would they go? Montreal? Good stadium situation there. Nashville? Charlotte? Portland? I would seriously doubt that. All those markets are smaller than Phoenix and I would strongly doubt their local tv contract would compare. The Diamondbacks aren't moving anywhere, and if they are, it will very likely be in the Scottsdale area.

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I really don’t disagree with you on a lot of what you’re saying about all of this. I lived in Tempe/Phoenix for several years and had season tickets to the Diamondbacks during an absolutely :censored: season. Chase Field’s issues were overblown by the club, but that’s because they know that they can hold Maricopa County hostage like basically every other team down there has. I’m simply saying that the club doesn’t generate nearly as much revenue as they should, and it’s going to become an issue sooner rather than later. The cost of keeping Chase Field operational is generally quite a bit higher than other parks due to, yes, the climate. It’s a HUGE problem trying to keep a building like that cool every day in mid July/August. Given the history of how the county has been bent over in the past? Don’t be shocked if they just let the club walk. In a perfect world, it’d be great if they could build a privately funded yard on one of the reservations. Problem is, that’s not usually how owners in these kind of leagues operate, and it’s not nearly that easy. If the Diamondbacks keep trying to force the issue and bluffing that they’re going to leave without public dollars, Maricopa County is going to eventually call that bluff. That’s how San Diego and Seattle lost their teams, and both of those situations were probably more tenable than anything in Phoenix is. 

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3 hours ago, BellaSpurs said:

Marlins aren’t gonna relocate because it’s not in the best interest of the league. It’s such a hassle, and what better market is there besides Miami? New Orleans and Portland are the only two I can see that could support the team. But Nola ran the Babycakes out of town, so maybe they aren’t even a good destination. Unless you want to add another team to a city that already has one, but even that wouldn’t work, a) all the big markets have two teams, LA, NYC, Chicago. b)adding another team to those markets is ridiculous. 

 

So if the Marlins did relocate it would be worse than anything that happens in Miami. Making it the worst intrest for the league.

What about Charlotte? It's been proven with how mediocre the Knights are that Charlotteans will show up for a bad team (they just have to build a stadium, I guess. Pretty big hurdle).

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10 minutes ago, QueenCitySwarm said:

What about Charlotte? It's been proven with how mediocre the Knights are that Charlotteans will show up for a bad team (they just have to build a stadium, I guess. Pretty big hurdle).

I forgot ab Carolina ig, wasn’t it already a failure of a relocation? But so has Nola and Portland. Still Miami is better than anything of those fiascos

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30 minutes ago, BellaSpurs said:

I forgot ab Carolina ig, wasn’t it already a failure of a relocation? But so has Nola and Portland. Still Miami is better than anything of those fiascos


Perhaps you're thinking of the Twins proposed move to North Carolina.  But that was a nonsensical location in the middle of nowhere.

Fact is, there are no good relocation options.  Just a bunch that maybe might work out.  The odds that it would be a lateral move, regardless of where, are probably greater than any other relocation situation in MLB history.

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Cincinnati Reds Uniforms Throw it Back to 1912 Sunday

May 19, 2019 - 13:20 PM

The Cincinnati Reds season-long trip through time continues Sunday afternoon when they’ll wear uniforms based on the 1912 Reds during their game against the Los Angeles Dodgers. With a cream cap, jersey, and pants – the 1912 Reds uniform has […]

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14 hours ago, BellaSpurs said:

I forgot ab Carolina ig, wasn’t it already a failure of a relocation? But so has Nola and Portland. Still Miami is better than anything of those fiascos

Yeah the Twins tried to move to Greensboro/Winston-Salem in the 90s, but it was in an awful location, even without considering how stupid moving to the Triad area is. Charlotte hasn't gotten a fair shake with the MLB yet, but they shot themselves in the foot by building BB&T Ballpark a few years ago (non-expandable, seats only ~10,000 people). That's not to say the city wouldn't build an MLB stadium within a few years, but it's just much less likely.

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20 hours ago, QueenCitySwarm said:

They'll consider relocation if not even 10,000 people can be bothered to show up for games. 7 years old isn't what I'd call "state of the art", and we're seeing stadiums get replaced quicker and quicker every year. The city can fight it all they want, if there's no prevention clause in the contract between the city and team, there's nothing legally wrong with the Marlins packing up tomorrow. Even if there's better ownership, the point is that the people of Miami don't care all that much. Other teams that are struggling just as much, like the Royals and Orioles, are still averaging much better numbers than the Marlins or Rays. I don't want to see the Marlins relocate, but it seems to be in the best interest of the MLB that they do. I hope I'm wrong, the new owners are much better, and people actually show up, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

But there's nothing obsolete about it, so I'd call it state of the art. There are certainly some design flaws but that has nothing to do with its age. If it were opening next season I doubt we would have seen much more modernization, if any. Yes, there were renovations during the offseason, but much of that was due to Jeter's desire to remove memories of Loria. They were more aesthetic changes than functional..

 

Yes, ballparks are being replaced slightly more quickly recently but I would call that more the exception than the norm. The Braves had the shortest window and Turner Field, a facility not purely designed for baseball in the first place, still endured for 20 years.

 

Given the park's suitability for baseball in rainy humid weather and the $600 million investment from county and city governments, I don't think you can expect a serious conversation about relocation for at least another 20 years. MLB us going to give Jeter all the time in the world to get the team in shape unless he first gives up on his own.

 

I am just having trouble envisioning a remotely plausible or realistic scenario where the Marlins could move before then. The stadium is the anchor; the lack of funding for a retractable roof park was the only impetus behind the relocation considerations had circa 2005-2006. If MLB is really getting impatient with Jeter, I presume they'd first try to oust him somehow from the control position especially since his personal financial stake in the franchise is quite low. The stadium is poorly located (for me at least), but the Marlins attendance since 2013 can mostly be attributed to pervasive management issues far more than anything else. They won't abandon a still new park because of that.

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13 minutes ago, Marlins93 said:

But there's nothing obsolete about it, so I'd call it state of the art. There are certainly some design flaws but that has nothing to do with its age. If it were opening next season I doubt we would have seen much more modernization, if any. Yes, there were renovations during the offseason, but much of that was due to Jeter's desire to remove memories of Loria. They were more aesthetic changes than functional..

 

Yes, ballparks are being replaced slightly more quickly recently but I would call that more the exception than the norm. The Braves had the shortest window and Turner Field, a facility not purely designed for baseball in the first place, still endured for 20 years.

 

Given the park's suitability for baseball in rainy humid weather and the $600 million investment from county and city governments, I don't think you can expect a serious conversation about relocation for at least another 20 years. MLB us going to give Jeter all the time in the world to get the team in shape unless he first gives up on his own.

 

I am just having trouble envisioning a remotely plausible or realistic scenario where the Marlins could move before then. The stadium is the anchor; the lack of funding for a retractable roof park was the only impetus behind the relocation considerations had circa 2005-2006. If MLB is really getting impatient with Jeter, I presume they'd first try to oust him somehow from the control position especially since his personal financial stake in the franchise is quite low. The stadium is poorly located (for me at least), but the Marlins attendance since 2013 can mostly be attributed to pervasive management issues far more than anything else. They won't abandon a still new park because of that.

I’m just shocked that someone would call a 7 year old stadium old. A stadium that is the second youngest stadium in the MLB, with no plans for other teams to get new stadiums in the near future other than the rangers. And the stadium that is newer than it I’d argue isn’t even a better park. That stadium alone is what will keep the Marlins there, if they leave town no matter where they go they will get no support because they will look like a grimy organization that’ll leave at the first chance they can.

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35 minutes ago, dont care said:

I’m just shocked that someone would call a 7 year old stadium old. A stadium that is the second youngest stadium in the MLB, with no plans for other teams to get new stadiums in the near future other than the rangers. And the stadium that is newer than it I’d argue isn’t even a better park. That stadium alone is what will keep the Marlins there, if they leave town no matter where they go they will get no support because they will look like a grimy organization that’ll leave at the first chance they can.

Yes, there's nothing really dated about Marlins Park at all. Some design flaws as I mentioned, but overall it's about as comfortable as pro baseball can get in South Florida. SunTrust exceeds it in terms of location by far, though. The former Orange Bowl was really not a smart choice for a site and this isn't even speaking in hindsight. Marlins Park is basically a spaceship that landed in a lower income neighborhood with not much room to be built up in the way that SunTrust has been. This is where the Marlins were particularly shortsighted in their planning. Having said that, the location issue should certainly not be enough for them to abandon a $700 million facility that is more than suitable for baseball.

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Does BornToBaseball mean baseball is their mother or that "baseball" is somehow now a verb?

 

Anyway, watched Vlad Jr. crush one against the White Sox today and they were wearing the 1983 throwbacks, as they seem to most Sundays. They were ugly the first time around and ugly now. Stop that. Wear normal uniforms.

 

 

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25 minutes ago, the admiral said:

Does BornToBaseball mean baseball is their mother or that "baseball" is somehow now a verb?

Probably the second one...unless there's a Great Granny Red Stockings out there.

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