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Cleveland Indians become the Cleveland Guardians


Bill0813

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2 hours ago, MCM0313 said:

How about Cleveland Pumpkins? There would be some brand unification with the Browns, whose helmets look like pumpkins. 

I can wait for a team to rout them in game and the headlines to read,  "Smashing Pumpkins"

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10 hours ago, Bruhammydude said:

Oh. When are they supposed to drop their name? They have not dropped it in any part of media AFAIK

They always said they’d keep the Indians name until they get the new moniker. 

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10 hours ago, Bruhammydude said:

Oh. When are they supposed to drop their name? They have not dropped it in any part of media AFAIK

 

They made it crystal clear that they're not dropping the name until they have their new one after this season.

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On 12/29/2020 at 1:40 PM, gosioux76 said:

This line has been used repeatedly on this board to dismiss the validity of one look over another, or a team's name (not to reignite the whole Cleveland Spiders debate.) 

 

But — and this is a serious question — are there really that many cases where a team's look is directly associated with failure?

 

I understand that the Broncos lost four Super Bowls in the Orange Crush uniforms, but to dismiss them entirely based on that logic is to assume that nobody can associate anything but misery to that look. And that's just not true. Those Broncos teams were incredibly successful, and undoubtedly a joy to watch for fans of that era. Sure, they fell short in the big game, but they got there, on the regular.

 

Similarly, I wouldn't dismiss the Bills' red helmets as symbols of failure. And the Vikings lost four Super Bowls in their classic uniforms, but I wouldn't complain were they to suddenly go full retro. 

 

Admittedly, I've bought into the superstitious uniform business over the years. I was 11 and living in Minnesota when the Twins unveiled their 1987 overhaul and went on to win two World Series trophies. But even then, I knew that the uniforms had nothing to do with it. 

 

Everyone wants to see the Brewers return to a look where they lost a World Series.

 

On 12/29/2020 at 1:45 PM, Marlins93 said:

What's the backstory behind this? I've always been led to believe that players have some say in terms of what hat they wear on their Cooperstown plaque, but it wasn't exactly unilateral say. Was Thome himself vocal about not having Wahoo or is there a chance that MLB also knew that it wouldn't age well?

 

Unrelated, but I hate that Mussina and Halladay went in logo-less. I understand the reasoning behind it, but something about it feels inauthentic. Just pick a team! It doesn't mean that their legacies or contributions to another team would somehow be forgotten.

 

Catfish Hunter and Mussina make sense.   They both had split careers with highlights in multiple places.   Compare to Lebron James.  He won most of his championships in one city, won one for his home team to break a huge city championship drought, and may reach new heights with his current team.

 

Halladay probably would have chosen a team if he were alive when he was selected.   I say Blue Jays, but I'm in that division so I saw him there a lot more.   You can go logoless with the cap angled in a way that it's not obtrusive.   The plaques of players like Hank Greenberg and Walter Johnson have logos that seem like they're shoehorned in to make sure they're visible.   If they were gone, it wouldn't be too noticeable.   I would have rather Thome had gone with that.

 

But :censored: the Hall for not letting Gary Carter choose his team so they could get representation for a dying franchise.   When they added Dawson they should have rectified this and fulfilled his wishes in his final years.

 

On 1/9/2021 at 7:47 PM, DNAsports said:

 

Cleveland Phalluses not getting the notoriety I think they deserve.

 

On 12/29/2020 at 2:10 PM, Sec19Row53 said:

This whole thread is a threadjack. You aren't doing anything that won't continue until there's news on the Cleveland Clevelanders Baseball Team, Inc.

 

The balkanization of news threads over the last years has been of great detriment.   The whole Mariners discussion went on here while the main thread was dead for a month because everyone was talking here.   Discussions happen wherever people are no matter what the subject is.

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3 hours ago, Silent Wind of Doom said:

Catfish Hunter and Mussina make sense.   They both had split careers with highlights in multiple places.   Compare to Lebron James.  He won most of his championships in one city, won one for his home team to break a huge city championship drought, and may reach new heights with his current team.

 

Hunter and Mussina are no-brainer A's and O's cap wearers, respectively, for me. Hunter especially after pitching his perfect game, earning his only Cy Young, pitching more than twice as many innings, and putting up better numbers--all with the A's. He won three championships with Oakland and two with New York.

 

Mussina is a closer call for me, but still easy to determine. Pitched two more full seasons with Baltimore, had all five ASG appearances with them, and put up better overall numbers there. The Yankee years were more the twilight of his career and didn't even win a championship with them. His best postseason performance was arguably in 1997 with the Orioles on top of that. I'd definitely say that Mussina's peak was with Baltimore and that's the team I associate him most with.

 

Lots of players have split careers but once you start weighing the length of service with each team alongside the actual numbers and achievements, it's usually rather straightforward to determine the appropriate cap. It only gets complicated when the player himself harbors a preference that goes against these standards.

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On 1/23/2021 at 5:31 PM, Marlins93 said:

Hunter and Mussina are no-brainer A's and O's cap wearers, respectively, for me. Hunter especially after pitching his perfect game, earning his only Cy Young, pitching more than twice as many innings, and putting up better numbers--all with the A's. He won three championships with Oakland and two with New York.

 

Mussina is a closer call for me, but still easy to determine. Pitched two more full seasons with Baltimore, had all five ASG appearances with them, and put up better overall numbers there. The Yankee years were more the twilight of his career and didn't even win a championship with them. His best postseason performance was arguably in 1997 with the Orioles on top of that. I'd definitely say that Mussina's peak was with Baltimore and that's the team I associate him most with.

 

Lots of players have split careers but once you start weighing the length of service with each team alongside the actual numbers and achievements, it's usually rather straightforward to determine the appropriate cap. It only gets complicated when the player himself harbors a preference that goes against these standards.

 

Mussina had 24 more wins over his Baltimore career overall with those two years.   He stayed quite consistent through his career despite injury, was much beloved for both teams' fans, came within an out of pitching a perfect game and won 20 games in pinstripes, achievements he strove for his entire career.

 

All-Star nods are kinda hard to use to quantify player success.   The best player on a terrible team will get all the nods because every team gets representation.

 

On 1/23/2021 at 5:36 PM, ManillaToad said:

Alternatively, everyone wants the Brewers to return to a look where they won their only pennant

 

Yes.   T'was a joke to illustrate how silly one finding winning enough to get to the championship as failure.

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7 hours ago, Silent Wind of Doom said:

 

Mussina had 24 more wins over his Baltimore career overall with those two years.   He stayed quite consistent through his career despite injury, was much beloved for both teams' fans, came within an out of pitching a perfect game and won 20 games in pinstripes, achievements he strove for his entire career.

 

All-Star nods are kinda hard to use to quantify player success.   The best player on a terrible team will get all the nods because every team gets representation.

 

I'm sure fans of both teams loved Mussina. He was a great pitcher. But he pitched longer and better with Baltimore according to the statistics. Pitcher's wins say just as much about the lineup behind him--they aren't an individual achievement. And Mussina had a near perfect game with the Orioles, too. There's really nothing superior about his Yankees resume aside from more playoff appearances. But I don't think that matters much considering he never got a ring with them and his best postseason pitching performance was in 1997.

 

All-Star nods are hardware. Not as important as Cy Young awards but still hardware. Mussina played on an Orioles team than had Cal Ripken. You can't really consider his nods to be filling some kind of representation quota when you take that into consideration.

 

Seven of Mussina's best ten seasons were with the Orioles according to ERA+. The top three were with Baltimore (1994, 1992, 1995). I have nothing against the Yankees but Mussina's case seems pretty cut and dry. I'm a little shocked that he opted to go logo-less.

 

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