2024 NFL Changes

[ptay]

9 minutes ago, DCarp1231 said:

Hey man, that’s pretty neat

 

I can tell you've been a 'Skins fan for too long......your snarky responses give you away.

[BJ Sands]

5 hours ago, MrAstrodome said:

Kinda wish Madden had the WFT jerseys to combine with their current helmet and end it from there.

I've been disappointed about that the past two years. It would solve so many problems with their identity.

[Old School Fool]

11 hours ago, GriffinM6 said:

When it's 95 degrees out and there's 100% humidity. 

 

I saw Nine Inch Nails and Soundgarden at an amphitheatre when it was like nearly 100 degrees. The music was good but the sweat was awful. In fact amphitheatres just suck in general.

[Durden]

12 hours ago, gothedistance said:

 

When Washington rarely wore the burgundy jerseys.

 

 

 

 

The 'skins had such awesome uniforms. Damn you snowflakes who look to be offended over everything. That name, logo and the uniforms should have never been changed. No one should ever pander or give in to crybullies on social media or anywhere else.

[dont care]

8 minutes ago, Durden said:

The 'skins had such awesome uniforms. Damn you snowflakes who look to be offended over everything. That name, logo and the uniforms should have never been changed. No one should ever pander or give in to crybullies on social media or anywhere else.

Or…. Hear me out…. It was a racial slur and needed to be changed.

[oldschoolvikings]

1 hour ago, Durden said:

The 'skins had such awesome uniforms. Damn you snowflakes who look to be offended over everything. That name, logo and the uniforms should have never been changed. No one should ever pander or give in to crybullies on social media or anywhere else.

It’s always awesome when someone calls others snowflakes and crybabies while simultaneously whining and crying about something that bothers them.  

[jc...]

16 hours ago, GriffinM6 said:

When it's 95 degrees out and there's 100% humidity. 

 

I'm usually so drunk that I don't even care. 

[PlayGloria]

This debate will probably never end and that's probably because there is no right answer. History is crazy complex. As society progresses and changes, the ideas of the past get simplified and all context of past eras is lost.  This causes people to label people, groups, and movements of the past as simply "good" or "bad". 

There is an issue that I have with that way of thinking. It seems that people either say "that concept from the past is bad! Get rid of it and never speak of it again!" (see statues of figures from Civil War era that get ripped down, etc.) - or - people say "stop being a snowflake and get over it!" (see people that fly confederate flags just to piss people off). 

There is a ground - it's called the middle - where society can actually  learn from the past, accepting the good and the bad of each individual scenario. Our history shouldn't be erased, but we should also expect ourselves to grow from it. 

 

So how does this tie into Washington? Well, as I see it, I think a side step in branding, keeping the same logo and uniforms but just changing the name, would have been a fantastic move. I also think teams with Native American themed names could and should go a step further and involve those communities with their teams with charity and game festivities. Let them be a part of the franchise - after all that is who you are honoring. Bring a positive change to something about the past that was carrying some negativity. GROW FROM IT.  Feel free to thumbs me down, but if you do, please let me know why you think the Blackhawks, Chiefs, Seminoles, etc are exempt from this discussion then. Because if Washington just changed their nickname, they would be no different than those teams. 

 

Pardon the essay here, but I also want to say this. The term "Native American" is no better in my eyes than Cleveland's old nickname or Washington's old nickname. They weren't "American" until Europeans got here and the work "native" sparks the idea of some old cartoon that mocks them. They are Apache, Cherokee, etc.

[Carolingian Steamroller]

12 minutes ago, PlayGloria said:

This debate will probably never end and that's probably because there is no right answer. History is crazy complex. As society progresses and changes, the ideas of the past get simplified and all context of past eras is lost.  This causes people to label people, groups, and movements of the past as simply "good" or "bad". 

There is an issue that I have with that way of thinking. It seems that people either say "that concept from the past is bad! Get rid of it and never speak of it again!" (see statues of figures from Civil War era that get ripped down, etc.) - or - people say "stop being a snowflake and get over it!" (see people that fly confederate flags just to piss people off). 

There is a ground - it's called the middle - where society can actually  learn from the past, accepting the good and the bad of each individual scenario. Our history shouldn't be erased, but we should also expect ourselves to grow from it. 

 

So how does this tie into Washington? Well, as I see it, I think a side step in branding, keeping the same logo and uniforms but just changing the name, would have been a fantastic move. I also think teams with Native American themed names could and should go a step further and involve those communities with their teams with charity and game festivities. Let them be a part of the franchise - after all that is who you are honoring. Bring a positive change to something about the past that was carrying some negativity. GROW FROM IT.  Feel free to thumbs me down, but if you do, please let me know why you think the Blackhawks, Chiefs, Seminoles, etc are exempt from this discussion then. Because if Washington just changed their nickname, they would be no different than those teams. 

 

Pardon the essay here, but I also want to say this. The term "Native American" is no better in my eyes than Cleveland's old nickname or Washington's old nickname. They weren't "American" until Europeans got here and the work "native" sparks the idea of some old cartoon that mocks them. They are Apache, Cherokee, etc.

The last graph is a great summation of how blanket terms remove the individuality from what remains an incredibly diverse group of peoples even just within the United States.

I will take issue with the first paragraph that there is a comfortable middle ground or that tearing down Neo-Confederate monuments or avoiding the old Washington Slurs name is erasing a part of the past. I reject that entire framework. It's not hard to tell history without participating in it or sanitizing it.

"The Washington Commanders used to have nickname that was a gross term for indigenous peoples because while they initially borrowed a different, less offensive term from a baseball team in Boston their owner was also a huge racist." 

There. I just told the whole story in one sentence. Growing sometimes means not paying lip service to ugly parts of the present out of some fealty to an imagined past, that's why I made sure to throw the George Preston Marshall reference in there.

 

I don't need a statue of William Bedford Forest to tell people that he was a slave trader who murdered hundreds of Black soldiers after they surrendered and helped found the Klan and that his lionization in the late 19th Century was part of a deliberate plot by former slave holders to violently reimpose the antebellum social order.

When it comes to the Washington Slurs, for a rare moment in American history there was an unequivocal right choice that was taken despite the meh that followed. We owe nothing to the people hanging on to that.

[PaleVermilion81]

Cripes people. Can we at least move this stupid conversation to a different thread? There's an entirely different section of these forums for this conversation. "Sports Logo General Discussion: Discussion of sports logo history, design, etc." 

[rfraser85]

Here's a thought for the Giants with special uniforms for celebrating their 100th season. If they want to celebrate their championship game history, they can do this:

 

Bring back the gray pants for a game or two ('07 and '11 SB champs)

Keep the 1980's throwbacks ('86 and '90 SB champs)

Use the 1930's throwback in place of CR (1st NFL championship game

 

It's a shame they don't play most of the opponents for those championship runs, especially the Bears to truly replicate the '33 game.

[MCM0313]

5 hours ago, Durden said:

The 'skins had such awesome uniforms. Damn you snowflakes who look to be offended over everything. That name, logo and the uniforms should have never been changed. No one should ever pander or give in to crybullies on social media or anywhere else.

The name and logo had to be changed and I’m fine there. But censoring the old name from accounts of team and league history is revisionist. 
 

Should we remove all NFL Films documentaries made before 2020 from YouTube? Take the name and logo methodically from pictures of Super Bowl rings - or from the rings themselves? If you go to sites like MyAbandonware or OldGames, lots of games can be downloaded that contain the old name and logo. Should we get some hackers to edit the code? Or should we just accept that that used to be the team name, but it isn’t anymore because it was inappropriate?

 

Statues to me are a separate issue. If you have a statue of a dumb yahoo like Nathan Bedford Forrest in a prominent part of a major city, many people will have no choice but to go by those statues regularly on their way to work. Only appropriate place for those is in a museum or private residence. 
 

I will ask you this: a documentary about, e.g., Joe Gibbs on YouTube, is that more like a public square or a museum? Do people have to watch it, or do they choose to watch it?

[infrared41]

CEASE AND DESIST

 

OK, kids, you've had your fun, but it's time to move on. You are free debate the merit or lack thereof of the Washingtons old identity until you're blue in the face - you just can't do it here. It's been beaten to death so many times that cats are envious of the number of lives it has. Either take it somewhere else or stop talking about it.

 

Thanks.

[MCM0313]

36 minutes ago, rfraser85 said:

Here's a thought for the Giants with special uniforms for celebrating their 100th season. If they want to celebrate their championship game history, they can do this:

 

Bring back the gray pants for a game or two ('07 and '11 SB champs)

Keep the 1980's throwbacks ('86 and '90 SB champs)

Use the 1930's throwback in place of CR (1st NFL championship game

 

It's a shame they don't play most of the opponents for those championship runs, especially the Bears to truly replicate the '33 game.

I miss the grey pants. IIRC people complained when they had them because the only other grey was the facemask. 

[rfraser85]

4 minutes ago, MCM0313 said:

I miss the grey pants. IIRC people complained when they had them because the only other grey was the facemask. 

 

Yeah, it's part of an issue I have with the Giants' current uniforms. There's no blue on the road uniforms, and the only red on the home uniform is the pants stripe. I know that the uniforms are based on historical uniforms, but the helmet is the only thing those sets have in common. Part of me hopes the Giants make an updated version of the throwbacks with a white version. As you pointed out, gray doesn't really serve much purpose at this point.

[Germanshepherd]

19 minutes ago, rfraser85 said:

 

Yeah, it's part of an issue I have with the Giants' current uniforms. There's no blue on the road uniforms, and the only red on the home uniform is the pants stripe. I know that the uniforms are based on historical uniforms, but the helmet is the only thing those sets have in common. Part of me hopes the Giants make an updated version of the throwbacks with a white version. As you pointed out, gray doesn't really serve much purpose at this point.

I too would prefer a return to the 80s throwbacks, but grey not fitting in with the current set was exactly what I liked about it. 
 

Every element had something unique, with the helmet being the thread that tied it all together. 
 

The jerseys were devoid of grey and either blue or red, the pants were devoid of white, and only the helmet had blue, red, white and grey all on it. 
 

I wouldn’t want any other team to copy that strategy, but for one team in the league it’s fascinating to look at in a way the current uniforms aren’t. There’s no thread, it’s just inconsistent. 

 

[rfraser85]

3 minutes ago, Germanshepherd said:

I too would prefer a return to the 80s throwbacks, but grey not fitting in with the current set was exactly what I liked about it. 
 

Every element had something unique, with the helmet being the thread that tied it all together. 
 

The jerseys were devoid of grey and either blue or red, the pants were devoid of white, and only the helmet had blue, red, white and grey all on it. 
 

I wouldn’t want any other team to copy that strategy, but for one team in the league it’s fascinating to look at in a way the current uniforms aren’t. There’s no thread, it’s just inconsistent. 

 

 

Maybe for one team, but both Texas teams are doing that now. At least the Giants' uniforms are basic enough that it's not a big stretch and use the same colors. When I see the Cowboys in navy, I've had to remind myself more than once who they are.

[Germanshepherd]

12 minutes ago, rfraser85 said:

 

Maybe for one team, but both Texas teams are doing that now. At least the Giants' uniforms are basic enough that it's not a big stretch and use the same colors.

Oh for sure. I don’t get at all why the Texans decided to swerve away from the horns on the blue jersey. 
 

The Cowboys works because they don’t want to wear the Navys anyways, so it being a change of pace designwise tracks. 
 

As for their mismatched blues, ideally I’d have them fix it, but I respect how they’ve kept it that way so long.

[Carolingian Steamroller]

I miss the grey pants on the Giants with a fervor.

For a hot minute there at the high point of the Eli era, I had the Giants among the best uniforms in football.

I'm an absolute sucker for the 1960's aesthetic in multiple sports and as much as the grey pants didn't necessarily connect to the rest of the uniform, it still looked totally unique. (Mind you this part of the Reebok era was also the high point of shiny pants so flat deliberately grey pants was something really different.)

It didn't bother me that there was no blue on the road jersey because the grey pants gave that set some balance and when a team can pull off different home and away templates I'm all over it.





If they insist on doing a rif on the 80's look, I would much prefer it to be in keeping with the late 60's design but just changing out the helmet logo. Stick to non-outlined numbers and plain blue home jerseys.

 

 

 

[FiddySicks]

9 hours ago, Old School Fool said:

 

I saw Nine Inch Nails and Soundgarden at an amphitheatre when it was like nearly 100 degrees. The music was good but the sweat was awful. In fact amphitheatres just suck in general.

That still sounds like a fun show. In fact, sweating profusely while listening to Head Like a Hole sounds like a great time to me!