infrared41 Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 You don't do something for the sake of doing it, if the right guy is out there then dammit go get him.No argument there. One problem is that the vast majority of the time the "right guy" isn't there. Another problem is that more teams than not just go get someone for the sake of going and getting someone. I'd bet that at best, deadline deals have a success rate of maybe 25-30%. I can't think of one that "made all the difference." I'm sure there are some examples but if the success rate was that great, I'd think that it would be a little easier to come up with good examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayJaxon Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 You don't do something for the sake of doing it, if the right guy is out there then dammit go get him.No argument there. One problem is that the vast majority of the time the "right guy" isn't there. Another problem is that more teams than not just go get someone for the sake of going and getting someone. I'd bet that at best, deadline deals have a success rate of maybe 25-30%. I can't think of one that "made all the difference." I'm sure there are some examples but if the success rate was that great, I'd think that it would be a little easier to come up with good examples.To add to that, some deadline deals take years to show the real value. More often than not it's the team getting the prospects that come out looking pretty. Ask Rangers fans how great that Mark Teixeira deal was for them. The Braves can thank the Tigers for the mid-season deal that brought future Hall of Fame pitcher John Smoltz to Atlanta. There are good mid-season trade stories but it usually falls in favor of the team giving up the big name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infrared41 Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 You don't do something for the sake of doing it, if the right guy is out there then dammit go get him.No argument there. One problem is that the vast majority of the time the "right guy" isn't there. Another problem is that more teams than not just go get someone for the sake of going and getting someone. I'd bet that at best, deadline deals have a success rate of maybe 25-30%. I can't think of one that "made all the difference." I'm sure there are some examples but if the success rate was that great, I'd think that it would be a little easier to come up with good examples.To add to that, some deadline deals take years to show the real value. More often than not it's the team getting the prospects that come out looking pretty. Ask Rangers fans how great that Mark Teixeira deal was for them. The Braves can thank the Tigers for the mid-season deal that brought future Hall of Fame pitcher John Smoltz to Atlanta. There are good mid-season trade stories but it usually falls in favor of the team giving up the big name.Exactly. Is a rental player that might get you to a division series loss really worth giving up five years of your future? Unless you're the Yankees, Phillies, or Red Sox, I gotta say no. Teams like the Pirates or Indians, etc. aren't going to get that much better by making some deadline deal. They may as well go with the teams they have and see what happens. If you can grab a Pujols or A-Rod etc. caliber player at the deadline, then by all means do it. Just don't kid yourself into thinking that picking up Mike Adams or Ryan Spilborghs will suddenly improve your team by 15 games and make your offense good enough to hang with the Red Sox.You did however remind me of one of the rare times a deadline deal had the desired result. Doyle Alexander pitched the Tigers into the playoffs in 1987; where they lost to the Twins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBTV Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 You don't do something for the sake of doing it, if the right guy is out there then dammit go get him.No argument there. One problem is that the vast majority of the time the "right guy" isn't there. Another problem is that more teams than not just go get someone for the sake of going and getting someone. I'd bet that at best, deadline deals have a success rate of maybe 25-30%. I can't think of one that "made all the difference." I'm sure there are some examples but if the success rate was that great, I'd think that it would be a little easier to come up with good examples.The Phillies in the Gillick / RAJ era have a good track record with deadline deals though. 2006 - Gave away Bobby Abreu and David Bell, ridding the clubhouse of a heartless drag and a mope. Also picked up Jamie Moyer for veteran leadership. Paved the way for younger players with heart to take over.2007 - Picked up Kyle Lohse and Tad Iguchi. Utley goes down with a broken hand, Iguchi fills in more than adequately in his place. Lohse goes 3-0 in 11 GS (don't remember what happened in the other 8.) Phillies win division by 1.2008 - Picked up fat tub of goo Joe Blanton. Blanton goes 4-0 down the stretch, Won game 4 of World Series, even hit a home run. Phillies won World Series.2009 - Picked up Cliff Lee and Ben Fransisco. Lee dominates, they overtake the Mets again and win division. Lee wins both of their games in the WS.2010 - Picked up Oswalt. Oswalt goes 7-0, Phillies win division.The 2006 trades weren't expected to yield positive results in that year (they were basically just dumps) but the team actually did improve and IIRC contended for the WC. Those trades really did change the attitude of the team.In each other year, it is reasonable to say that they would not have accomplished what they accomplished that season without the deadline deal being made. "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infrared41 Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 2009 - Picked up Cliff Lee and Ben Fransisco. Lee dominates, they overtake the Mets again and win division. They could have just stood around and waited (maybe played some cards or something) and they still would have overtaken the Mets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Shelf Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 The Pittsburgh Pirates are in sole possession of first place in the NL Central. Yes, the PIRATES. Un:censored:ingbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maz Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 So this is what competitive baseball feels like..... Hmm.... I could get used to this.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infrared41 Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 So this is what competitive baseball feels like..... Hmm.... I could get used to this....I'm not at all ashamed to say it. I am totally, and unapologetically, bandwagoning the Pirates these days and I am digging the out of this. Here's hoping for a Pirates - Indians World Series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZapRowsdower8 Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Obviously I am excited about the Pirates playing well and being in first place, the last time they had a winning season I was 10 years old. I will be 29 in September. But, there is a part of me that keeps expecting the bottom to fall out any day now. The next two weeks will be the real test. Cincy and the Cardinals at home then on the road for four against Atlanta and three at Philly. If they can come out of this with a respectable record I'll probably start feeling a bit more confident and hopefully they can add a nice role player with a decent bat. What I'm really excited about is the big, loud crowds that are coming out at PNC. I know a lot of people had their doubts about Pittsburgh being willing to support the Pirates, but I think this shows that as long as the team shows even a little bit of life the people will respond. (Unless those people are Rays fans.*) There is only so much that any fan base will put up with.*That was only a joke Rays fans. I live a mile from the Trop and actually enjoy going to Rays games, although cool it with the cowbells already. Is the Trop a great facility? Hell no. Is it the worst stadium I've ever been to? Not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maz Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Obviously I am excited about the Pirates playing well and being in first place, the last time they had a winning season I was 10 years old. I will be 29 in September. But, there is a part of me that keeps expecting the bottom to fall out any day now. The next two weeks will be the real test. Cincy and the Cardinals at home then on the road for four against Atlanta and three at Philly. If they can come out of this with a respectable record I'll probably start feeling a bit more confident and hopefully they can add a nice role player with a decent bat. I've been afraid of them falling apart all the sudden too, but with every win they chip that out of me. Not only are they winning unlike they used to, they are being impressive with it at times. I used to be the most pessimistic person when it came to the Pirates, but I believe they will make it out of this tough stretch perfectly fine. What does worry me, however, is playing in Milwaukee. They haven't been able to win there in a long time. If ever there was a time they had to change that, it's now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayJaxon Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Yea but the thing about the Pirates is that they haven't been even much of a tease since 1992. They have been really bad and they have expected to be really bad. The Pittsburgh fans have not had to endure gut-wrenching playoff races that came down to the final day and the Pirates didn't get in. By this time any chance of a playoff spot is long gone. So I say embrace this competitive baseball Pirates fans. Don't worry about if they fall flat in September or lose on the last day. At least you guys have something to cheer for. I couldn't be happier for the Pittsburgh team. I hope they do well.....until they play the Braves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMU Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Dear Tony Reagins,Why in God's name do you demote Hank Conger and keep career and season sub-Mendoza Jeff freaking Mathis. Why this love affair with that bum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameroncrazie07 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Wow what a way to lose a game for the Yankees tonight. That game was another prime example of how the Trop should never host an MLB team. In my opinion the MLB needs to give Tampa Bay an ultimatum and tell them that they need to get a new stadium within 5 years. Now I have no idea if this would ever get approved by the citizens there but I feel like that needs to happen. It has to easily be the worst stadium in the MLB. The Core 4 Sports Podcast Twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashcarson15 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Yea but the thing about the Pirates is that they haven't been even much of a tease since 1992. They have been really bad and they have expected to be really bad. The Pittsburgh fans have not had to endure gut-wrenching playoff races that came down to the final day and the Pirates didn't get in. By this time any chance of a playoff spot is long gone. So I say embrace this competitive baseball Pirates fans. Don't worry about if they fall flat in September or lose on the last day. At least you guys have something to cheer for. I couldn't be happier for the Pittsburgh team. I hope they do well.....until they play the Braves They've had a damn good football team (one that's been competitive for around 80% of the last 40+ years) and a damn good hockey team recently. They've had something to cheer for./anti-Pittsburgh mini-rant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameroncrazie07 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Yea but the thing about the Pirates is that they haven't been even much of a tease since 1992. They have been really bad and they have expected to be really bad. The Pittsburgh fans have not had to endure gut-wrenching playoff races that came down to the final day and the Pirates didn't get in. By this time any chance of a playoff spot is long gone. So I say embrace this competitive baseball Pirates fans. Don't worry about if they fall flat in September or lose on the last day. At least you guys have something to cheer for. I couldn't be happier for the Pittsburgh team. I hope they do well.....until they play the Braves They've had a damn good football team (one that's been competitive for around 80% of the last 40+ years) and a damn good hockey team recently. They've had something to cheer for./anti-Pittsburgh mini-rant. Yeah I agree 100 percent. It's not like Pittsburgh is a city of losers and gets an occasional winning/decent team in one sport. Basically we're trying to make it sound like these fans have had nothing to cheer about for 18 years. When in that time they've got to see 4 Super Bowl appearances, 2 Super Bowl wins, 2 Stanley Cup appearances, and a Stanley Cup win. There's a reason Pittsburgh is known as the "City of Champions". The Core 4 Sports Podcast Twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBTV Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Yea but the thing about the Pirates is that they haven't been even much of a tease since 1992. They have been really bad and they have expected to be really bad. The Pittsburgh fans have not had to endure gut-wrenching playoff races that came down to the final day and the Pirates didn't get in. By this time any chance of a playoff spot is long gone. So I say embrace this competitive baseball Pirates fans. Don't worry about if they fall flat in September or lose on the last day. At least you guys have something to cheer for. I couldn't be happier for the Pittsburgh team. I hope they do well.....until they play the Braves They've had a damn good football team (one that's been competitive for around 80% of the last 40+ years) and a damn good hockey team recently. They've had something to cheer for./anti-Pittsburgh mini-rant. Yeah I agree 100 percent. It's not like Pittsburgh is a city of losers and gets an occasional winning/decent team in one sport. Basically we're trying to make it sound like these fans have had nothing to cheer about for 18 years. When in that time they've got to see 4 Super Bowl appearances, 2 Super Bowl wins, 2 Stanley Cup appearances, and a Stanley Cup win. There's a reason Pittsburgh is known as the "City of Champions".Being a Pirates fan does not automatically make one a Steelers or a hockey fan. "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameroncrazie07 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Yea but the thing about the Pirates is that they haven't been even much of a tease since 1992. They have been really bad and they have expected to be really bad. The Pittsburgh fans have not had to endure gut-wrenching playoff races that came down to the final day and the Pirates didn't get in. By this time any chance of a playoff spot is long gone. So I say embrace this competitive baseball Pirates fans. Don't worry about if they fall flat in September or lose on the last day. At least you guys have something to cheer for. I couldn't be happier for the Pittsburgh team. I hope they do well.....until they play the Braves They've had a damn good football team (one that's been competitive for around 80% of the last 40+ years) and a damn good hockey team recently. They've had something to cheer for./anti-Pittsburgh mini-rant. Yeah I agree 100 percent. It's not like Pittsburgh is a city of losers and gets an occasional winning/decent team in one sport. Basically we're trying to make it sound like these fans have had nothing to cheer about for 18 years. When in that time they've got to see 4 Super Bowl appearances, 2 Super Bowl wins, 2 Stanley Cup appearances, and a Stanley Cup win. There's a reason Pittsburgh is known as the "City of Champions".Being a Pirates fan does not automatically make one a Steelers or a hockey fan.I understand that, but you could say that it's very likely that most of them are. The Core 4 Sports Podcast Twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CS85 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Sigh. Cubs. It's a shame there's so many games left in the season. Quote "You are nothing more than a small cancer on this message board. You are not entertaining, you are a complete joke." twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shumway Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Dear Tony Reagins,Why in God's name do you demote Hank Conger and keep career and season sub-Mendoza Jeff freaking Mathis. Why this love affair with that bum?I read recently that there were actually talks to trade Mathis to Pittsburgh for Garrett Jones, but they fell through. I really hope Tony isn't the one who backed out of that deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maz Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Yea but the thing about the Pirates is that they haven't been even much of a tease since 1992. They have been really bad and they have expected to be really bad. The Pittsburgh fans have not had to endure gut-wrenching playoff races that came down to the final day and the Pirates didn't get in. By this time any chance of a playoff spot is long gone. So I say embrace this competitive baseball Pirates fans. Don't worry about if they fall flat in September or lose on the last day. At least you guys have something to cheer for. I couldn't be happier for the Pittsburgh team. I hope they do well.....until they play the Braves They've had a damn good football team (one that's been competitive for around 80% of the last 40+ years) and a damn good hockey team recently. They've had something to cheer for./anti-Pittsburgh mini-rant. Yeah I agree 100 percent. It's not like Pittsburgh is a city of losers and gets an occasional winning/decent team in one sport. Basically we're trying to make it sound like these fans have had nothing to cheer about for 18 years. When in that time they've got to see 4 Super Bowl appearances, 2 Super Bowl wins, 2 Stanley Cup appearances, and a Stanley Cup win. There's a reason Pittsburgh is known as the "City of Champions".Being a Pirates fan does not automatically make one a Steelers or a hockey fan.I understand that, but you could say that it's very likely that most of them are.So according to you guys, someone like myself, for example, who hasn't seen anything better than mediocre baseball in his lifetime isn't allowed to enjoy this because of the recent success of the football and hockey teams? Seems a bit ridiculous to me.Let us have our moment, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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