new 2011-12 college basketball uniforms

[WSU151]

Meh. I had hoped for something better than that. Everyone could have topographical lines. Not everyone could do frog skin or turtle shell.

Bear in mind, out of respect for the Ute nation the U of U doesnt use ANY Ute tribal imagery (the university wont even put the Drum and Feather on anything considered permanent i.e. fields and courts).

So we're sort of hemmed in regarding design elements. I think the map design is fine for now, but it certainly doesnt feel like it'll be a long-term or memorable design.

But the most prominant part of the athletic department (the football helmet) is fine?

The huge drum-and-feather logo on the athletics website is okay? And the school is okay licensing the logo for merchandise...

Something's amiss here.

[Foxxtrot44]

The cost of some helmet decals or patches on a basketball jersey is nothing compared to a new hardwood floor or artificial football surface. So they've taken care to only put the logo in places that it could be quickly and cheaply replaced. I could do a picture tour of the campus and athletics facilities, but suffice it to say the word "Utes" and the DnF logo are basically nonexistent outside of apparel (There are some flags around SLC right now, but I dont recall if they read "Utah" or "Utes"...however, it still fits within the university's goals).

Here's an article from right after Utah decided to start reducing the use of the logo

Circle and Feathers?

The relationship with the tribe tends to swing hot and cold (and right now there's a lot of talk about it being especially frigid). There's also some (unfounded) fear in the fanbase that since we're in the PAC12 now, we're the next Stanford Indians...

On the topic of feathers...anything hawk related is fan poison. Most fans hate it, the hawk-based identity is horrible, and most importantly--it doesnt sell. Frankly, many Utah fans would probably swallow a new navy blue alternate before they'd stand for having a bird motif on any uniform.

So again, it's a nice, harmless, embellishment that's certainly not iconic...but could be FAR worse (from a fan's perspective).

[WSU151]

That article shows that the Ute nation has no problem with the DnF. It's the PC crowd making a bigger stink than it should.

[DrJack]

The cost of some helmet decals or patches on a basketball jersey is nothing compared to a new hardwood floor or artificial football surface. So they've taken care to only put the logo in places that it could be quickly and cheaply replaced. I could do a picture tour of the campus and athletics facilities, but suffice it to say the word "Utes" and the DnF logo are basically nonexistent outside of apparel (There are some flags around SLC right now, but I dont recall if they read "Utah" or "Utes"...however, it still fits within the university's goals).

Here's an article from right after Utah decided to start reducing the use of the logo

Circle and Feathers?

The relationship with the tribe tends to swing hot and cold (and right now there's a lot of talk about it being especially frigid). There's also some (unfounded) fear in the fanbase that since we're in the PAC12 now, we're the next Stanford Indians...

On the topic of feathers...anything hawk related is fan poison. Most fans hate it, the hawk-based identity is horrible, and most importantly--it doesnt sell. Frankly, many Utah fans would probably swallow a new navy blue alternate before they'd stand for having a bird motif on any uniform.

So again, it's a nice, harmless, embellishment that's certainly not iconic...but could be FAR worse (from a fan's perspective).

So its not really out of respect of the Ute Nation, its in case they are forced to change, they want it to be as cheap as possible. That is kind of a big distinction.

Or have they volunteered to change and want to be as ready possible for when the Utes say "yeah, please change"? That would be honorable.

There is nothing wrong with looking out for the bottom line (especially at our cash-strapped public universities), but the intent behind not using the drum and feather on courts and fields, but still selling the merch is a little . . . . slimy looking, for lack of a better word.

[Lights Out]

Utah could always switch to their bird logo if need be.

[Foxxtrot44]

So its not really out of respect of the Ute Nation, its in case they are forced to change, they want it to be as cheap as possible. That is kind of a big distinction.

Or have they volunteered to change and want to be as ready possible for when the Utes say "yeah, please change"? That would be honorable.

There is nothing wrong with looking out for the bottom line (especially at our cash-strapped public universities), but the intent behind not using the drum and feather on courts and fields, but still selling the merch is a little . . . . slimy looking, for lack of a better word.

I'd hate to continue this derail...honestly, there could prolly be a good thread dedicated to "controversial" team names/logos and how the schools handle them.

Anyhoo, it's all about the grey. The tribe obviously has the university's ear, so there's nothing wrong with being prepared for any eventuality...but as you rightly pointed out, money talks. HOWEVER, If the tribe and university are both getting what they want out of whatever is deemed acceptable use of the logo, no one's gonna say boo (and yes, I'm sure both sides get quite a bit).

A lot seems to be made of the fact that I used the word "respect"...I stand by that. The university could have been unwilling to bend until the NCAA PC brigade came after them or they could have just thrown out the identity and not dealt with the tribe. Instead they have embarked on a balancing act that requires a lot of respect be shown to Ute culture. From replacing the Crimson Warrior to cracking down on fans who wear feather bands (though I've noticed that they have gotten real lax about that lately).

It's tough to stand between being respectful and prudent...but it's worked pretty well under the current configuration.

And THAT'S why we have a map on our bball uni's!/Thread saved

[WSU151]

So its not really out of respect of the Ute Nation, its in case they are forced to change, they want it to be as cheap as possible. That is kind of a big distinction.

Or have they volunteered to change and want to be as ready possible for when the Utes say "yeah, please change"? That would be honorable.

There is nothing wrong with looking out for the bottom line (especially at our cash-strapped public universities), but the intent behind not using the drum and feather on courts and fields, but still selling the merch is a little . . . . slimy looking, for lack of a better word.

I'd hate to continue this derail...honestly, there could prolly be a good thread dedicated to "controversial" team names/logos and how the schools handle them.

Anyhoo, it's all about the grey. The tribe obviously has the university's ear, so there's nothing wrong with being prepared for any eventuality...but as you rightly pointed out, money talks. HOWEVER, If the tribe and university are both getting what they want out of whatever is deemed acceptable use of the logo, no one's gonna say boo (and yes, I'm sure both sides get quite a bit).

A lot seems to be made of the fact that I used the word "respect"...I stand by that. The university could have been unwilling to bend until the NCAA PC brigade came after them or they could have just thrown out the identity and not dealt with the tribe. Instead they have embarked on a balancing act that requires a lot of respect be shown to Ute culture. From replacing the Crimson Warrior to cracking down on fans who wear feather bands (though I've noticed that they have gotten real lax about that lately).

It's tough to stand between being respectful and prudent...but it's worked pretty well under the current configuration.

And THAT'S why we have a map on our bball uni's!/Thread saved

Stuckey nailed it, Foxx. It's all about the transition in case the tribe pulls the endorsement. If the school really wanted to show respect, they wouldn't limit the DnF logo to stuff that can easily be destroyed. As long as the tribe endorses the DnF logo, which it has, the school should put it everywhere they can. But they haven't, which means they're worried about the NCAA and the loss of tribe endorsement. It's got more to do about money and hedging a loss or playoff opportunity than it does about respect to the tribe.

When you drive down 400 S, and you see the lights with the banner that has the DnF logo and Pac 12 logo flying proudly, it's pretty obvious the school isn't worried about minimizing the logo.

[DrJack]

My stance on Native American logos and mascots its pretty far on the "crazy liberal/politically correct" side of the fence. But I do understand that there can be a respectful and mutually agreed upon way to use NA imagery in sports.

And it sounds as if Utah (at least publicly) is trying to do just that. They seem to have a good relationship with the Utes and the agreement is mutual.

However, its just not right to describe the reasoning behind not having a DnF logo on a field or court as "respect" when its on flags, shirts, signs, hats, uniforms, helmets, etc. Its pretty clear that the University didn't want to invest thousands of dollars on an item that may need to be changed should the NCAA or Ute Nation get upset. Smart move imo, but one motivated solely by $$$ and not "respect".

And lastly I noticed you mentioned that both the tribe AND the school benefit financially from the use of the Utah Utes name and DnF logo. I'd like to know if that is true and the details of that agreement. Is the school paying the tribe to use the name? Or giving them a cut of the merchandise? If true, that sounds both awesome (the tribe should get a cut), and also ripe for corruption. No financial agreement was mentioned in the article you posted, but the Tribe members did say they were proud and honored by the logo/name. But that was tribal leadership speaking. And they may be the ones benefiting financially. Just makes me wonder....

Is the majority of Ute nation in agreement here? Or is it a case of "we'd like to complain, but we really need the money"?

Just curious, not making any accusations.

Either way, I really like the topographic design. Its unique, understated, relevant to Utah, and looks good too. I'm glad it extended to other sports than football.

[Foxxtrot44]

I'mma send some pm's so this doesnt become a Ute tribe thread....back to basketball!

[BigEd76]

Penn State's gray unis:

[north dakota]

^ Yes

[vmd9]

The Akron Zips made some changes this year. Haven't seen any uniforms but the home so far.

I'm kind of split on these, love the bigger numbers on the back and huge Z on the left leg. Not really a fan of using the same template as the generic template, but they've been using it for 3 years so I guess it's grown on me. The gold numbers and wordmark seem to look a lot lighter than the vegas gold usually used, but it could just be the lighting in these photos. Hoping they keep the school name on the roads and alternate. Heard rumblings about a black alt, but chances are it will just be gold.

Old homes for comparison

[DCDuck]

Akron in black... do not want.

[walkerws]

Akron in black... do not want.

I agree. Kent State has black alts and they are horrible IMO. Navy blue numbers and letters and a thin gold outline. Akron's lettering on the new homes looks almost silver, like a Champagne Gold instead of the traditional Vegas.

[Korkie]

I am a sucker for gray basketball jerseys (Hoyas, Nets, etc.) so I like the Penn State jerseys. Only complaint is the numbers having the white outline and the letters not. I prefer that it be consistent.

[wyopokes2]

[gdu]

Love 'em. Wish there were a brown alt (or primary road).

[CDixonDesign]

Solid upgrade for Wyoming, and solid downgrade for Akron...

[Brave-Bird 08]

Penn State's gray unis:

With that lighting, I might advise they get glow-in-the-dark unis instead.

[Lights Out]

Those fonts plus the Fennis Dembo-era sidepanels would be sheer perfection.