2011-12 NBA Season

[infrared41]

O/U 1.5 years before the talk begins about Lebron having "only one"?

A la Peyton Manning.

Remember this season was from a lockout and only 66 games. That is what critics will say immediately. The narrative for him will change consistently.

Then I guess we need to devalue one of Tim Duncan's rings as well.

[shaydre1019]

I'm sorry, congrats to Miami and Lebron for finally getting a ring. But seeing Spoelstra standing on that podium with his hat on backwards looking like a 12 year old kid at a candy store just does not look right.

I was thinking the exact same thing. Granted he kinda looks like a 12 yr old but still, was kinda odd.

[OnWis97]

I loved the way LeBron won a title by staying loyal to his franchise and with the combination of free agent signings and draft picks over the years, the Cavs were able to put together a great team around him. Er wait a second...

This is what I saying a bit ago (maybe in the NBA fan culture thread?). Why should anyone want a player to suffer? Why must a player lose in a bad market in order to make a championship win acceptable?

There are things I just don't understand about sports fandom.

I get that it's probably a better "story" if Lebron had toiled away in Cleveland for X number of years and finally got a title. What I don't get is why the best player in the game playing seven years for a poorly run franchise then exercising his right as a free agent to go elsewhere is the worst thing ever. The guy gave the Cavs seven seasons. The Cavs had seven shots at building a team around him. They failed to do so, and frankly, they showed no evidence that they were ever going to. How anyone can blame the guy for going to a team he thought gave him a better chance to win is beyond me.

There's no doubt that Lebron could have better handled his exit from Cleveland, but other than that, I don't see the problem. Does anyone here really believe that Jordan would have stuck around had the Bulls management did what the Cavs did to build a team? Do we really believe Magic would have stayed in LA if they kept surrounding him with players like Mitch Kupchak and Mychal Thompson instead of players like Kareem and James Worthy?

This. LeBron toiled seven years in Cleveland and was always (to borrow a phrase) a diamond surrounded by crap. Bringing them to the finals is still probably more impressive than winning 5 in Miami would be. I'd love if the NBA was like the NFL. But it's not. In the NBA small market teams in bad weather don't win. Yeah, he took the path of least resistance going to Miami, but staying in Cleveland, he ran the legitimate risk of never winning a title...in the sport where it's considered a mark against you.

What really drives me nuts though is that he is essentially being punished for spending seven years in Cleveland. Too bad he couldn't just do what Kobe did and say "I'm only playing in a big market". Maybe then he'd have ended up with the Knicks, free agents would have wanted to sign to play with him, he'd have three or four titles by now and we could praise him for winning with his original team. Kobe, demands his way to LA, who then signs Shaq as a free agent. Is that really that much better than how Miami was built? And we LOVE to see Kobe win with Shaq. And we LOVE to see Kobe win post-Eagle, CO. But we HATE to see LeBron win because he only gave Cleveland seven years and, like most players do when they can, went to a place where he could win (forgoing some money, BTW). It's time to get over it. I'd go to dinner with LeBron before Kobe in a heartbeat.

For fans like me (that don't need big markets to be in the hunt ever year), the NBA has a problem...teams can be built this way. A couple of players are just too important in basketball. You could have Aaron Rodgers, Ray Lewis, and Adrian Peterson join forces...may not really matter. A-Rod, Jeter, and Teixera...well, they can't pitch. I'd like there to be a way around it, but there probably is not.

I happen to think that 1 title in CLE would be more impressive than Kobe's 5 in LA...but that's not the way the coverage works...

---

All that said, LeBron stepped up huge this year. I was definitely on the "LeBron folds in the clutch" bandwagon, but that did not happen this year. There will always be people that hate the Heat and LeBron, but it's kind of tough to really hate on his game now.

In fact, I'd say only the most stubborn person should be able to hold onto the criticsm, except for one thing. There is one thing that LeBron is going to regret forever; not leaving Cleveland, not joining D-Wade, and not even "the Decision." It's going to be "not 2, not 3..." I had to google that quote and I just realized that he went up to "...not 7". Wow. They'll probably end up with 2 or 3...OKC's just gonna get better. And there will be people mocking that quote until they win their 8th, which won't happen. That's the part that'll haunt him most.

[Kevin W.]

I hate to be that guy, but it's LeBron, OnWis.

[OnWis97]

I hate to be that guy, but it's LeBron, OnWis.

At least I was consistent. I used the "a" not twice, not three times...

(I'm going up to edit now)

[TrueYankee26]

Yup, like OnWis said, this title won't quiet Lebron haters, but well, it's a start. He did what Manning did in Super Bowl XLI and Alex Rodriguez in the 2009 World Series; throw the proverbial "choker" ape off his back.

[rams80]

O/U 1.5 years before the talk begins about Lebron having "only one"?

A la Peyton Manning.

Remember this season was from a lockout and only 66 games. That is what critics will say immediately. The narrative for him will change consistently.

Then I guess we need to devalue one of Tim Duncan's rings as well.

They did before the Spurs won again.

[Saintsfan]

Part of the issue is that we are trying to write LeBrons epitaph as a player when he may not be half way through his career. It's hard enough writing Kobe's now, but LeBron has plenty of time to prove the doubters wrong, just as he has plenty of time to mess up. I doubt LeBron will mess up btw.

It's like trying to decide if Tiger Woods is the greatest golfer ever. At least some of the moments that define LeBron are to come, just as even one more major win would be a major part of defining Tiger's career (redemption and all that!)

We should all stop playing that game, except that James is a highly skilled player who is fun to watch and it's fun to watch the drama of his teams, and leave the defining of his legacy for 15-20 years time.

[patsox]

Congrats LeBron. Now let's go get that second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh...that you guaranteed.

Except he didn't guarantee it at all, he just said that to hype the fans up at that rally. He followed that up by saying something to the effect of, "we believe we can win multiple championships if we do things the right way". Is that so unreasonable?

I loved the way LeBron won a title by staying loyal to his franchise and with the combination of free agent signings and draft picks over the years, the Cavs were able to put together a great team around him. Er wait a second...

How is it LeBron's fault that the best the Cavs' front office could come up with for a supporting cast was Mo Williams and a crusty old version of Shaq? They're completely to blame there... anyone who seriously looks down on LeBron for not wasting his prime in Cleveland just doesn't get it.

Damn people, let the man have one day of peace.... he's more than earned it.

No, it's not that unreasonable if that is indeed the way he said it.

Lets clarify: I'm not a LeBron hater at all (Wade's my least favorite player on that team). I used to like him actually, and I still kind of do. I feel like people hate on him just cause it's what everyone else does. It's gotten really old to me. It's gotten to the point where it's a lot like the Patriots, Yankees, etc...annoying. And if the Heat hadn't beaten the Celtics in the ECF I might have even been rooting for the Heat to beat the Thunder.

[Magnus]

[Kramerica Industries]

The red outline is a nice touch.

[evanmaldonado]

Though if it's going to be a three-digit number, it should be .667

[Cujo]

Regardless of if it's a lockout-shorterned season... Regardless of Derrick Rose shredding his knee... Regardless of all the other B.S. people are spewing, you can no longer deny LEBRON JAMES IS AN NBA CHAMPION.

So why is everyone so bent out of shape about it? Yeah, so LeBron came off as a selfish pig for "The Decision" and how he handled his free agency. And of course he didn't have to join forces with Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh either. But it worked out for him, didn't it? Two NBA Finals appearances, a league MVP, a Finals MVP and a ring!?? At the end of the day, you cannot deny that LeBron is currently a Top 3 player in everyone's book (even Skip Balyess'). Why should any Top 3 NBA player in his prime (outside of the Michael Jordan era) NOT have a ring? It's crazy to see how bitter everyone is over one of the world's greatest athletes winning a championship. Over the years he spend carrying the Cavs, and now taking over in South Beach, the guy has freaking earned it. Get over yourselves. (Especially you, Cleveland!)

[evanmaldonado]

Cleveland's just bitter that at the end of the day they don't even have the Indians to look forward to

[Lights Out]

Top 3? LeBron is without question the best player in the NBA right now.

[Cujo]

Top 3? LeBron is without question the best player in the NBA right now.

I have him as the best, even before last night. What I'm saying is that the haters even have him in their Top 3.

[FrankCostanza]

Cleveland's just bitter that at the end of the day they don't even have the Indians to look forward to

Or the Browns for that matter.

[TFoA]

Regardless of if it's a lockout-shorterned season... Regardless of Derrick Rose shredding his knee... Regardless of all the other B.S. people are spewing, you no longer deny LEBRON JAMES IS AN NBA CHAMPION.

So why is everyone so bent out of shape about it? Yeah, so LeBron came off as a selfish pig for "The Decision" and how he handled his free agency. And of course he didn't have to join forces with Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh either. But it worked out for him, didn't it? Two NBA Finals appearances, a league MVP, a Finals MVP and a ring!?? At the end of the day, you cannot deny that LeBron is currently a Top 3 player in everyone's book (even Skip Balyess'). Why should any Top 3 NBA player in his prime (outside of the Michael Jordan era) NOT have a ring? It's crazy to see how bitter everyone is over one of the world's greatest athletes winning a championship. Over the years he spend carrying the Cavs, and now taking over in South Beach, the guy has freaking earned it. Get over yourselves. (Especially you, Cleveland!)

Pretty much this. Hell, the dude plays for a team in my division so I'm obligated to dislike him & the team he plays for, but the flack that this man has received over the past year has been ridiculous for someone who is pretty easily the best player in the world right now. Did he bring some of that flack onto himself with "The Decision?" Of course. But you'd think after the season he had this year (where he was CLEARLY the best player on that Heat squad after taking his game to yet another level), he'd get some sort of respect. But haters really are gonna hate. I don't like LeBron. Never have & probably never will if he stays in the Hawks' division for the rest of his career. But I know when to appreciate & respect greatness when I see it, and LeBron getting his ring last night basically confirmed what any sensible basketball fan could see: He's the best in the world right now. Bar none.

Now, things are probably gonna get interesting once guys like Durant & Rose (assuming he makes a full recovery from that knee injury) enter their true primes. Hell, if the Cavs play their cards right, Kyrie Irving could be the key to bringing them back to relevancy. The future of the league is very bright, and there's gonna be some tough challenges for the mWo in the future. But back around December I remember saying that it's a good thing that the Mavs won last year, because the Heat aren't gonna screw up any more chances in the near future. Well, that's one year down. Probably 2 or more to go, IMO. Might not win 5, 6, 7, or 8, but y'all may as well get used to the Heat being a title contender.

[shaydre1019]

This thread is probably as good as dead but but if anyone has a few minutes to kill I recommend you watch this. (skip Bayless fans beware) Im not a mavs fan at all but I love mark Cuban, dudes super intelligent and basically rips skip a new one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv2jqFd2-qI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[pmoehrin]

This thread is probably as good as dead but but if anyone has a few minutes to kill I recommend you watch this. (skip Bayless fans beware) Im not a mavs fan at all but I love mark Cuban, dudes super intelligent and basically rips skip a new one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv2jqFd2-qI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Mark Cuban said what I've been trying elude in this thread multiple times in much better language.

Nobody and I mean nobody that works in the NBA or the NCAA with a shred of knowledge looks at the game the way people like Skip Bayless talk about it. And I just wish ESPN and the NBA would just stop promoting their game like professional wrestling. Oh how much pressure is on LeBron to win this game? Who has the better fans? How are the refs screwing up these games? And its all media driven BS plain and simple. There doesn't need to be a storyline for every game. And as a knowledge fan of basketball I find it to be highly insulting because media outlets like ESPN are basically saying the sport can't succeed for what it is by drumming these BS pro wrestling type storylines.

And I have a ton of respect for Mark Cuban for saying that because I know he is in the minority of owners that feel that way and probably got ripped behind the scenes for saying that. If he wasn't the game would be presented for what it was.