2013 MLB Discussion Thread, Redux

[FiddySicks]

Oh I'll take the hatred because I know it's mostly just a reaction to their winning. It's just silly, like that last Deadspin article I referenced. I don't know what makes a semi-legit journalism outlet publish something like that. There's not even a real hook to it.

It just happened so suddenly and strongly.

Like, I'm pretty sure this Dodger team would be pretty hated if the Pirates had moved on and were playing them.

They're uber-rich, cocky, showy, and they frequently whine to the umpires (about good calls!). And yet they're media darlings. Which even that usually causes hatred. But in this case most fans seem to be on their side.

It's all a bit bizarre. And I guess proves that winning and the exposure that comes with it is more likely to breed a negative response than anything else.

That's my biggest issue with all of the Cardinals hate. Sure, they're gushed over nauseatingly, and they have a history of ruining teams seasons, but look at the alternative. Does anyone outside of LA really want to see this Dodgers team win? They're a bunch of cocky bastards on the field, their fans are totally apathetic until they're in the thick of things and a handful of those fans have been known to turn violent, and they're basically this decades version of the Yankees. People HATED those turn of the century Yankees teams for the way they frivolously threw cash at super stars, and this current Dodgers team has proven that they'll do it even bigger. There is NOTHING likeable about this Dodgers team (And no, Vin Scully doesn't count).

[pcgd]

Watching a walk-off is different than watching a triple in the 4th inning. Most of the time when someone "watches" a non-home run they are called out by everyone or at least made fun of. But Puig does it and it's youthful and refreshing. If he runs out of the box he could be sliding into home with a memorable inside the park HR. Maybe not, but I get mad when guys don't run out double play grounders...

As for the other flap from Waino, I have no issues with Gonzalez except him tattooing 2 HRs today. I honestly have no issues with Puig other than that triple and his lazy play on the Holiday double in game 5. I like how he plays otherwise. He's an amazing talent, reminds me of Vlad. Wish he was a Cardinal.

As for the baseball police, didn't care for it when the Braves or others did it, don't particularly like it when the Cards do it either cause like McCarthy mentioned, all teams do this crap. I cringed every time Larussa went off on a pitcher for throwing up and in but remained silent when his pitchers did the same.

[OnWis97]

On 10/16/2013 at 9:08 AM, Kramerica Industries said:

8th inning from Game 3 of the 2009 ALDS, correct? I think it was Punto who got caught leaning way too far off 3rd base after Denard Span hit an IF single that would've set the Twins up with 1st/3rd, no outs, in a 2-1 game. Punto leaned too far off the bag, throw came to the plate, and the return throw to 3rd beat him back to the base, and the Twins went quietly after that.

It's amazing. The Twins would literally find ways to lose playoff games to the Yankees.

 

That is the one. It's not like the Twins were going to win the series, but it was aggravating. I was way out in the outfield...last Twins game at the Metrodome.

[The_Admiral]

their fans are totally apathetic until they're in the thick of things and a handful of those fans have been known to turn violent

"Their fans don't care enough, except when they care too much."

The Dodgers have Vin Scully, and everyone loves Vin Scully, so there's that.

[infrared41]

The Cardinals hate is all getting a little bit out of control. But I'm sure it will continue.

It is pretty ridiculous.

The backlash was a long time coming, I feel. It's always been bubbling under the surface next to the general distaste for Scrappy White Infielder Love, but the post-Pujols Cardinals have reached critical mass on everything that's been annoying about the whole Cardinals thing. Everyone got sick of Boston's crap too. Take your lumps and enjoy your wins.

Well, I'm not exactly a Cardinals fan but that's beside the point...

Based on your response to Jimmy, my guess is you'll tell me to just shut up, but I would argue that the whole "woe is us" Cubs bit is equally annoying. Anyway...

I understand the whole "they're winning a lot so we can't like them" thing. That happens with pretty much any team that puts together a successful run. It's the people who have at best a passing interest in baseball going out of their way to make sure we all know they hate the Cardinals. It's baffling. And it's happening everywhere (figuratively.) That seems like a real waste of energy to me. (FWIW, I don't include you in that crowd. At least you're a baseball fan.) I don't much care for the Boston Celtics, but I don't have enough interest in the NBA to bother with spending every April venting my spleen over the Celtics or their fans. But that's just me. If people get off on Cardinals hate, more power to them, I guess.

[The_Admiral]

Oh, I wasn't talking to you. I was addressing Cardinals fans but lazily stayed in second person.

I'd argue with both the Red Sox and the Cardinals, it's not just the teams winning but an insufferable tone-deafness on the part of the fans. With Boston, it was how they pressed the whole "we're the underdogs, you have to love us" issue well after a Red Sox championship and three for the Patriots. With St. Louis, it's the Best Fans In Baseball. People just don't like being told to feel good for other people.

EDIT: to wit, it's the difference between everyone being pretty sure Tim Tebow was a really good quarterback and "if you spend just 15 minutes with Tim Tebow your life will be better for it, he was circumcising Filipino heathens at age 18 which is more than what were YOU doing."

[Still MIGHTY]

I hate when my team wins and staves off elimination with our best pitcher pitching in the next game still giving us an opportunity to win the series! Damn them!

/dbadefense

So you honesty have no fear of Wainwright pitching a Game 7 at Busch. None. If you don't, then you're a hell of a lot more optimistic than I am.

I would have given more plight of an actual comeback if Clayton was given the Game 7 assignment instead of Friday's. It would have been kind of like a boxing card; the undercard (Game 6) would be Ryu vs. Wakka while the main event (Game 7) would be Kershaw vs. Wainwright.

Instead, I don't see Wainwright losing another game. Not in a Game 7. Not at home at Busch. Not even with Ryu opposing him. I just don't see any plausibility in this.

Hence, why I'm angry at the fact that after five games, after out-hitting St. Louis in four of the games and holding the Cardinals to a sub .200 batting percentage, the Dodgers could only muster two wins, with two games left in Missouri.

So are you trying to say that you'd rather have lost today in Game 5, rather than having the opportunity at all to play in Game 6? And are you saying you'd rather lose Game 6 just because you'd have to go up against Wainwright in Game 7?

You're ing insane.

It's all about having the opportunity. You're season is on the line in Game 6 so you put your best pitcher out there. It's all about getting there. Anything can happen man. Jesus. It's not like I want either team to win, but god damn, you're pathetic.

[CS85]

The Cardinals hate is all getting a little bit out of control. But I'm sure it will continue.

It is pretty ridiculous.

The backlash was a long time coming, I feel. It's always been bubbling under the surface next to the general distaste for Scrappy White Infielder Love, but the post-Pujols Cardinals have reached critical mass on everything that's been annoying about the whole Cardinals thing. Everyone got sick of Boston's crap too. Take your lumps and enjoy your wins.

Well, I'm not exactly a Cardinals fan but that's beside the point...

Based on your response to Jimmy, my guess is you'll tell me to just shut up, but I would argue that the whole "woe is us" Cubs bit is equally annoying. Anyway...

I understand the whole "they're winning a lot so we can't like them" thing. That happens with pretty much any team that puts together a successful run. It's the people who have at best a passing interest in baseball going out of their way to make sure we all know they hate the Cardinals. It's baffling. And it's happening everywhere (figuratively.) That seems like a real waste of energy to me. (FWIW, I don't include you in that crowd. At least you're a baseball fan.) I don't much care for the Boston Celtics, but I don't have enough interest in the NBA to bother with spending every April venting my spleen over the Celtics or their fans. But that's just me. If people get off on Cardinals hate, more power to them, I guess.

Since I was referenced pretty much to a T here I feel I should stand up for myself a bit.

The Cardinals stuff is exhausting on both ends I'm sure. Cards fans clearly aren't all one collective glut of insufferable rubes (mostly just the ones who live in the lower 2/3 of Illinois) and not every Cubs fan is a belligerently cynical baseball sectarian who doesn't know when to shut up. I've admitted on several platforms that the Cardinals hate is a losing battle since there really isn't all that much NOT to like about them, but therein lies the rub to my angst. Being raised in an area where Cubs fans are routinely ridiculed isn't pleasant.

I get it: Nobody wants to hear me or people like me constantly chirping about how the Cardinals and their fans are pretentious hacks, especially when the team is probably on it's way to another championship. It's the most pointless smattering of sour grapes. Sorry.

I wish I had admiral's ability to float around all of internetdom in a tranquil placidity where sports remains forever ingrained into a tertiary emotional sector. I get worked up. I make an ass out of myself, and with great frequency. For whatever reason I feel like the occasional vomiting of that pointless anxiety onto various media outlets could be a good thing. In that regard I'm probably mistaken.

The pity card being played so routinely as a Cubs fan is pathetic, but it's all I've got so if you've got something better I'm willing to hear it. Otherwise I'll remain a petulant jerkoff who refuses to be a sports grownup. Sorry to disappoint you.

[The_Admiral]

I don't think that's fair. I get stupidly worked up about sports as much as anyone here. It's why we're here! That and the logo stuff I guess.

[CS85]

I don't think that's fair. I get stupidly worked up about sports as much as anyone here. It's why we're here! That and the logo stuff I guess.

For what it's worth you do a markedly better job, at least in my eyes, of policing your posts with a wash of perspective. Unless the Coyotes are involved, but we've all been there. I get some sort of horrifying satisfaction in posting something I know is profoundly stupid, only to check back in 15 minutes later and slowly lower my forehead to my desk.

[ninersdd]

I don't think that's fair. I get stupidly worked up about sports as much as anyone here. It's why we're here! That and the logo stuff I guess.

For what it's worth you do a markedly better job, at least in my eyes, of policing your posts with a wash of perspective. Unless the Sharks are involved, but we've all been there. I get some sort of horrifying satisfaction in posting something I know is profoundly stupid, only to check back in 15 minutes later and slowly lower my forehead to my desk.

FYP

[infrared41]

The Cardinals hate is all getting a little bit out of control. But I'm sure it will continue.

It is pretty ridiculous.

The backlash was a long time coming, I feel. It's always been bubbling under the surface next to the general distaste for Scrappy White Infielder Love, but the post-Pujols Cardinals have reached critical mass on everything that's been annoying about the whole Cardinals thing. Everyone got sick of Boston's crap too. Take your lumps and enjoy your wins.

Well, I'm not exactly a Cardinals fan but that's beside the point...

Based on your response to Jimmy, my guess is you'll tell me to just shut up, but I would argue that the whole "woe is us" Cubs bit is equally annoying. Anyway...

I understand the whole "they're winning a lot so we can't like them" thing. That happens with pretty much any team that puts together a successful run. It's the people who have at best a passing interest in baseball going out of their way to make sure we all know they hate the Cardinals. It's baffling. And it's happening everywhere (figuratively.) That seems like a real waste of energy to me. (FWIW, I don't include you in that crowd. At least you're a baseball fan.) I don't much care for the Boston Celtics, but I don't have enough interest in the NBA to bother with spending every April venting my spleen over the Celtics or their fans. But that's just me. If people get off on Cardinals hate, more power to them, I guess.

Since I was referenced pretty much to a T here I feel I should stand up for myself a bit.

Oddly enough, I wasn't thinking of you when I wrote that, but now that you mention it, you do kind of fall into the category. I always wrote off your "rants" as being part of a character. It never occurred to me that you might actually feel that way.

[LAWeaver]

I don't understand the hate towards the Cards. Is it like a Yankees thing where they constantly win or something? In other words, are the Cards the new Yanks?

[IceCap]

Sure, they're gushed over nauseatingly, and they have a history of ruining teams seasons, but look at the alternative. Does anyone outside of LA really want to see this Dodgers team win?

Yes. The Dodgers are one of baseball's "legacy teams," and sports are fun when those team are good. The Cardinals are one of those teams as well, but they've had recent success, and the rest of us outside of Cardinals Nation are just a tad tired of the self-congratulating nature of it all.

The Dodgers are finally good again after not being that great for a long while. I rather see them go to the World Series then see the Best Fans in Baseball™ pat themselves on the back and figuratively blow their team again.

As for this team being crass? McCarthy said baseball was the only sport where celebrating success is frowned upon. He's not completely right about that. Hockey, or the NHL at least, has the same issue. Both sports need teams like the Dodgers. If only to add a bit of variety. Every team patting itself on the back about how "classy" and "good for the game" they are like the Cards and their fans do would get old quickly.

[Kramerica Industries]

They are the most successful team in the history of the National League, they've been to the playoffs a bunch of times since 2001, they've won two World Series and three pennants in that time (those two titles coming when they won a mere 83 and 90 games during the regular season), including when they were twice down to their last strike in 2011, were the beneficiary of reaching the playoffs in 2011 because of a historic collapse by the Braves, and then were the beneficiary of the ridiculous Wild Card system last year, when they were six games worse than the Braves, were 1-5 in the regular season against them, and beat them thanks in significant part to the most horrendous infield fly call in the (televised) history of baseball, which was then heightened when they beat the Nationals in Game 5 of the NLDS with another ridiculous, down-to-their-last-strike 9th inning rally.

And, of course, the constant BFIB proclamations by the national media.

Is it fair the level of hate they get? No, of course not. Cardinals fans are not as "good" as the national media makes them out to be (don't jump all over me, Cards fans - that's just to say the Cardinals fanbase is not on some magical level by itself from which no other fanbase can even reach the ether of; you're fine enough as it is). Of course, I'd also say that Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, what have you, are not nearly as bad as people will make them out to be, either. At the end of the day, the nature of being a sports fan varies very little from fanbase to fanbase. I just wish more people realized this.

[Sport]

LOL

Should've used blue for funny and red for disrepectful.

[Kramerica Industries]

This Puig hate-piece isn't even a satire, and it comes from a New York columnist.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/10/16/kallet-arrogant-unlikable-yasiel-puig-plays-the-game-the-wrong-way/

[STL FANATIC]

That's pretty awesome all things considered lol.

I found it disrespectfully and tasteless but not intentionally so. I wouldn't go off an a rant about it if I weren't provoked to give a response, though. The thing is, neither did or would the Cardinals. That's what was so annoying about that whole thing. You know not everyone enjoys that stuff, so why get bent out of shape when you specifically ask them how they feel about it. Nobody called a press conference to denounce the Dodgers celebrations. They just answered a question.

Anyways, I support irrational emotion in sports (by fans, specifically). I may disagree with your emotion, but I support you displaying it. That's what this stuff is all about. Sports don't make any sense. I've long sense accepted that. But there's so much cool stuff that comes from the illogical emotional bound we have with them, that eh. It just is what it is. Go all out.

I think I make an ass out of myself on here a lot less than I used to (although follow me on Twitter if you want to see me keep doing it), but I'm still every bit as crazy over this stuff. I don't begrudge others for it.

All of our emotions in sports, for the most part, really deserve quotes around them too. I don't hate Yasiel Puig. I "hate" Yasiel Puig. You, probably, don't hate all of the Cardinals and their fans, "hate" them. Not saying we have to actually use the quotes, just saying that's what it really is.

I think we all understand sports is it's own irrational, illogical world, and that's ok.

When someone tries to use bad logic, I'll call them on it. But if someone is just blatantly forgoing logic. Hey. That's cool.

[NJTank]

I don't understand the hate towards the Cards. Is it like a Yankees thing where they constantly win or something? In other words, are the Cards the new Yanks?

Any team that wins a lot is going to garner hatrid.

[rams80]

They are the most successful team in the history of the National League, they've been to the playoffs a bunch of times since 2001, they've won two World Series and three pennants in that time (those two titles coming when they won a mere 83 and 90 games during the regular season), including when they were twice down to their last strike in 2011, were the beneficiary of reaching the playoffs in 2011 because of a historic collapse by the Braves, and then were the beneficiary of the ridiculous Wild Card system last year, when they were six games worse than the Braves, were 1-5 in the regular season against them, and beat them thanks in significant part to the most horrendous infield fly call in the (televised) history of baseball, which was then heightened when they beat the Nationals in Game 5 of the NLDS with another ridiculous, down-to-their-last-strike 9th inning rally.

And, of course, the constant BFIB proclamations by the national media.

Is it fair the level of hate they get? No, of course not. Cardinals fans are not as "good" as the national media makes them out to be (don't jump all over me, Cards fans - that's just to say the Cardinals fanbase is not on some magical level by itself from which no other fanbase can even reach the ether of; you're fine enough as it is). Of course, I'd also say that Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, what have you, are not nearly as bad as people will make them out to be, either. At the end of the day, the nature of being a sports fan varies very little from fanbase to fanbase. I just wish more people realized this.

The Cardinals weren't the beneficiaries of the Wild Card so much as they were the beneficiaries of playing the Braves in the playoffs.