The Big Ol' Counterfeit Jersey Thread

[nash61]

NPR article on Counterfeit Jerseys.

http://www.npr.org/2011/02/06/133495229/counterfeit-jerseys-can-you-tell-the-difference?ft=1&f=1001

"In one instance where we've purchased goods, we've found that the ISP was U.S., the phone number was listed in the U.S., but the people answering the phone were Russian, the credit card that we gave them was processed in Israel, and the goods were shipped from somewhere in Asia," he says.

Love the picture of the counterfeit jersey they had in that story:

[Lights Out]

I think -- and I'm pretty sure I've said it before in this thread -- that the proliferation of counterfeit jerseys (especially NFL jerseys) is indicative of how far out of whack the supply (especially price) is to demand (especially willingness to pay).

Indicative? Sure. A justification for funding illegal activity by buying bootlegs? Hell no.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

I think -- and I'm pretty sure I've said it before in this thread -- that the proliferation of counterfeit jerseys (especially NFL jerseys) is indicative of how far out of whack the supply (especially price) is to demand (especially willingness to pay).

Indicative? Sure. A justification for funding illegal activity by buying bootlegs? Hell no.

A justification of sorts: this is the true market response to an artificially controlled market.

[BlueSky]

We're arguing video games and counterfeit jerseys now? That's like arguing apples and pineapples. Sure, they sound similar, but they're totally different.

Not really. BlueSky had simply posted on the previous page that he believed the only reason to have an exclusive license is to simply take advantage of the consumer and raise prices. He also used the old comparison of 2K Sports and EA Sports 2005 football games as an example of his claim, while Ice and I refuted that claim by stating the other reasons why the NFL would want exclusive licensing agreements with other companies. That's all.

It still goes back to this - this is a board for people who enjoy sports logos. Sports and logos. So why would you support something where the profits go to neither? It makes absolutely no sense. I'm going to try not to say things that have already been said a thousand times in this thread, but it's wrong to buy counterfeit jerseys. When you decide what sports team you like you're not automatically entitled to anything. Not tickets, not hats, not jerseys.

Wow...just wow. Please allow me to apologize for not sticking to the board's agenda. This from someone who says the video game situation is not a valid example of why exclusive licenses (i.e. monopolies) are not good for customers. Yes, BBTV (aka Captain Obvious in this instance), it's business. But "reasonable profit" is a business term for a reason. Using a monopoly or exclusive license or whatever pretty name you want to put on it is bad business. It's bad for customers and what's bad for customers is bad for the league in the long run. And oh BTW, it's also illegal for most businesses (and if 2K5 prevails in the lawsuit, here too).

And BBTV, please think twice about gouging your eyes out. Don't think your medical insurance will cover that.

I think -- and I'm pretty sure I've said it before in this thread -- that the proliferation of counterfeit jerseys (especially NFL jerseys) is indicative of how far out of whack the supply (especially price) is to demand (especially willingness to pay).

Indicative? Sure. A justification for funding illegal activity by buying bootlegs? Hell no.

A justification of sorts: this is the true market response to an artificially controlled market.

Nice to know somebody else gets it.

BTW, the argument that exclusive licenses allow the league to ensure top quality is laughable. Again - this is so basic it's ridiculous - that can easily be accomplished through Quality Control regardless of the number of suppliers. If the NFL's QC people simply looked at a sample and said, "Sorry, not up to standard, come back when you have it right" the problem is instantly solved.

Look, the NFL chooses to give customers one source for "authentic" (ha!) jerseys; one source for video games; one source for games on PPV. Agree or disagree with my points, please take the time to think of the additional product choices you'd have and the money you'd save and how much better all of it would be if they chose to allow competition. That and only that is the point I'm making. I've said before, I'm torn on the issue of counterfeits because I know it's wrong but I understand - look up that word if you think it means "approve" - why people buy on the black market.

[JQK]

I'd rather pay for a $40 dollar jersey from Chang's Discount Booth at the Flea Market that has the same or better quality than what the official retailers are putting out there for $200+. Simple as that.

Is it ethically right? Perhaps not, but my wallet makes that decision.

I'd like a Giants jersey. I can spend an ridiculous amount on one that is ill-fitting and looks like ƨhiŧ, or i can spend 4 times less, and get a jersey that fits pretty well and looks better?

You're out your damn mind if you think i'm going to buy the "Official" jersey to help the awful system of charging people high prices for crap merchandise stay afloat. When the big 4 leagues & their uniform manufacturers start putting out a product worth $200+, i'll pay that price for it. Until then? Reebrok it is.

Want to throw me in jail for that? Throw the cuffs on, you self-rightious, ivory tower assh*les...

[IceCap]

I'd rather pay for a $40 dollar jersey from Chang's Discount Booth at the Flea Market that has the same or better quality than what the official retailers are putting out there for $200+. Simple as that.

Is it ethically right? Perhaps not, but my wallet makes that decision.

That's all anyone's really asking here. If you understand the law, if you understand the concept of IP rights and you still decide to buy a counterfeit then that's your call.

I'd like a Giants jersey.

No one's entitled to a G-ddamn sports jersey. No one needs a sports jersey.

I can spend an ridiculous amount on one that is ill-fitting and looks like ƨhiŧ, or i can spend 4 times less, and get a jersey that fits pretty well and looks better?

I've never come across an official NFL jersey, Reebok or otherwise, that was ill-fitting. As for looking the part? The Giants have a pretty simple jersey pattern. I've never seen an official one that looked like crap.

As for counterfeits, the one's I've seen have always looked slightly off. Maybe the Giants ones are easier to get right, but the same reasoning that leads to that assumption leads to Reebok getting it right too.

You're out your damn mind if you think i'm going to buy the "Official" jersey to help the awful system of charging people high prices for crap merchandise stay afloat.

Again with this "crap quality" argument. If anything I've noticed the quality of official replicas going up over the years.

As for "helping the awful system stay afloat," well the NFL owns the rights to their own IP. You want a Giants jersey? Then the Giants, and by extension the NFL and Reebok, deserve your money. Theft is wrong, any way you cut it.

When the big 4 leagues & their uniform manufacturers start putting out a product worth $200+, i'll pay that price for it. Until then? Reebrok it is.

If you're unsatisfied with the quality of current replicas and authentics then why not just not buy them? Oh right. You want a jersey. A luxury item. Again, no one's entitled to a jersey of their favourite team.

Want to throw me in jail for that? Throw the cuffs on, you self-rightious, ivory tower assh*les...

You're the one letting your self-rightiousness get the best of you Kinger. You're trying to set yourself up as some sort of internet martyr. Despite the fact that you're not entitled to a jersey anyway, as you fling generic insults that don't fit the situation in the slightest.

No one's suggesting you, or anyone else who buys a fake, should be thrown in jail. It's not a crime to knowingly buy a fake, as far a I know. If you know you're buying a fake, know it's ethnically wrong, and decide to do it anyway then there isn't really a problem. You know you're supporting the ones committing the crime, and if you're ok with that then no problem. You're able to recognize the reality of the situation, which is more then some others can say. As long as you're willing to deal with the consequences you're fine. And in cases like this those consequences amount to little more then "the jersey falls apart when put through the wash."

[JQK]

So what you're saying is that sports should only be for those who can afford it? Otherwise, you're excluded?

Never said i was entitled to a jersey, that i HAVE to be provided with one. But if my poor-ass wants a jersey, i'm going with one i can afford, and that is of equal-to-better quality than the "authentics".

There is no reason to pay $160+ for a jersey just because you can buy it at Modells. Not only that, i'm a really tall, fat bastard. The "Authentics" don't come in my size. My Chinese sweat-shoppers care about the fat, over-fed American sports fan in a way Reebok does not...

[charger77]

So what you're saying is that sports should only be for those who can afford it? Otherwise, you're excluded?

I'd argue that any product is for those that can afford it.

[IceCap]

So what you're saying is that sports should only be for those who can afford it? Otherwise, you're excluded?

Well like -Dan said, any product is only for those who can afford it, if we get right down to it. I would like to see the prices come down myself (I can remember a time when buying an official NHL replica didn't mean spending more then $100), but if the market can support it, then who are we to tell the leagues they can't charge it?

Never said i was entitled to a jersey, that i HAVE to be provided with one. But if my poor-ass wants a jersey, i'm going with one i can afford, and that is of equal-to-better quality than the "authentics".

Like I said that's all anyone's looking for. If you're fully aware of the reality of the situation, and choose to do so anyway, then there's no problem. No one's saying throw you in jail. We're just saying don't be surprised when the cheap knock-off falls apart in the wash.

There is no reason to pay $160+ for a jersey just because you can buy it at Modells. Not only that, i'm a really tall, fat bastard. The "Authentics" don't come in my size. My Chinese sweat-shoppers care about the fat, over-fed American sports fan in a way Reebok does not...

That's the most sound piece of reasoning given on the pro-counterfeit side yet. Cheers.

[BigDmo]

But...I can afford a knockoff, so....isn't that product for me?

[TheOldRoman]

Never said i was entitled to a jersey, that i HAVE to be provided with one. But if my poor-ass wants a jersey, i'm going with one i can afford, and that is of equal-to-better quality than the "authentics".

I disagree with your entire arguement, but this point in particular is ridiculous. The counterfeit jerseys are of horrendous quality. The materials are cheap, the number fonts are often off, the sizing is bad, and they start falling apart after a handful of uses. They aren't even close to the replicas in terms of quality, unless by quality you exclusively mean "sewn on numbers."

[Sodboy13]

So what you're saying is that sports should only be for those who can afford it? Otherwise, you're excluded?

Welcome to the free-market economy. Glad to have you on board. This is why I go to Blackhawks games once or twice a year instead of having season tickets, and why my seats are in the 300 level instead of on the glass. This is why I drive a Dodge Stratus instead of a Bugatti Veyron. If there are things out there which you can't afford, you're always free to explore avenues which may lead you to acquire more wealth and personal property.

In the meantime, I'll just bask in the glow of the stupefying irony of you, of all people, calling for entitlements.

[Pizzaman7294]

JQK, what political party do you vote for...by any chance?

[JQK]

So what you're saying is that sports should only be for those who can afford it? Otherwise, you're excluded?

Welcome to the free-market economy. Glad to have you on board. This is why I go to Blackhawks games once or twice a year instead of having season tickets, and why my seats are in the 300 level instead of on the glass. This is why I drive a Dodge Stratus instead of a Bugatti Veyron. If there are things out there which you can't afford, you're always free to explore avenues which may lead you to acquire more wealth and personal property.

In the meantime, I'll just bask in the glow of the stupefying irony of you, of all people, calling for entitlements.

The point of that, Sodboy, was saying there ARE avenues for me to aquire sports jerseys. They are outside of the official retailers, but they are there to be had at a price cheaper than the competition. Now i wouldn't buy a knockoff that was as awful as some of the examples in this thread, but many knockoffs are quite good, as in the number fonts are correct, the nameplates are correct, even the NFL Equipment shield is correct. I'm not saying people should be entitles to get all the expensive things they want. No one has that right, and i'm not calling for entitlements. All i'm saying is that if there is a cheaper way to get the same product, don't bust my balls about it...

...and Pizzaman, i'm Unaffiliated...

[BBTV]

I'd rather pay for a $40 dollar jersey from Chang's Discount Booth at the Flea Market that has the same or better quality than what the official retailers are putting out there for $200+. Simple as that.

Is it ethically right? Perhaps not, but my wallet makes that decision.

That's all anyone's really asking here. If you understand the law, if you understand the concept of IP rights and you still decide to buy a counterfeit then that's your call.

Right. I couldn't care less if you buy the jersey or not, as long as you don't act like there's not only nothing wrong with it, but you're some kind of crusader against the big bad businesses who are destroying society by selling sports jerseys at a certain price point.

[JQK]

I'd rather pay for a $40 dollar jersey from Chang's Discount Booth at the Flea Market that has the same or better quality than what the official retailers are putting out there for $200+. Simple as that.

Is it ethically right? Perhaps not, but my wallet makes that decision.

That's all anyone's really asking here. If you understand the law, if you understand the concept of IP rights and you still decide to buy a counterfeit then that's your call.

Right. I couldn't care less if you buy the jersey or not, as long as you don't act like there's not only nothing wrong with it, but you're some kind of crusader against the big bad businesses who are destroying society by selling sports jerseys at a certain price point.

Not trying to act like a crusader... I just want a cheaper priced jersey i can fit into... I can't buy Legit jerseys anyways, cause they don't make them in my super fat & tall guy size. Casual Male is getting better at this, but they're VERY limited on NHL uniforms. So, i have to look elsewhere...

[elsephen]

People feel like elitists when they pay for overpriced anal rape they call "authentic jerseys". They feel they're more moral or better... and it pisses them off to the core to see people wearing a shirt that cost 5x's less but you have to take a magnifying glass to tell the difference.

It's sort of like a Lexus owner downing a Toyota driver. Great... you've got your little decal that lets you know you spent more and might have a slightly better product. But really... you were just taken advantage of, and now you're pissed off to realize it. Difference with jerseys is... no one else knows. Which makes it worse. They wish there was something on the jersey that everyone else could see and say "oh, he spent 300 dollars on that one- look at him!"... but there's not. And they hate it. But they can't stoop to the lows of buying a 'fake' jersey. Noooo... that's just wrong. Who cares if they more than likely pirated thousands of dollars worth of music, movies, software, etc... this is different! And you're going to hear why!

It's a shirt. It's not an authentic jersey. The ones NFL.com sell aren't authentic jerseys. Not even close. But they're made in a sweat-shop that has an official license!

Who cares? And stop pretending the money goes to hard-working designers that made the logo 60 years ago.

[BBTV]

It's sort of like a Lexus owner downing a Toyota driver.

Actually, it's nothing like that. Nothing at all.

[BlueSky]

I'd rather pay for a $40 dollar jersey from Chang's Discount Booth at the Flea Market that has the same or better quality than what the official retailers are putting out there for $200+. Simple as that.

Is it ethically right? Perhaps not, but my wallet makes that decision.

That's all anyone's really asking here. If you understand the law, if you understand the concept of IP rights and you still decide to buy a counterfeit then that's your call.

Right. I couldn't care less if you buy the jersey or not, as long as you don't act like there's not only nothing wrong with it, but you're some kind of crusader against the big bad businesses who are destroying society by selling sports jerseys at a certain price point.

Or somebody who dares make a point that isn't in keeping with those of the self-appointed gatekeepers for the noble NFL.

Hey, if you want to play the hyperbole game, I can do that.

[loogodude90]

It's sort of like a Lexus owner downing a Toyota driver.

Actually, it's nothing like that. Nothing at all.

To me, it's a lot like that. It's bothering someone because they bought a cheaper product that still gets the job done. As in, "I overpaid, so everyone else should too. And if anyone finds a way to get a similar product for less money, then I'm going to be jealous."