The Big Ol' Counterfeit Jersey Thread

[IceCap]

Nice to see the supposed professional designer elesphen supporting IP theft.

I don't know where you people are finding these high quality fakes. I've seen plenty, and while some are pretty close, not one actually exceeds the official products, in either design or quality.

[cameroncrazie07]

My friend actually bought a Jets jersey from somewhere like this, it wasnt that bad but the patch and the NOB were way off.

Then how was it not that bad?

They were just really way too thick but if you looked from more than 10 feet away you really couldn't tell.

[thespungo]

Even though this thread is a mess with arguments, and my opinion won't be appreciated by most, I'll throw my two cents in here, followed by a question at the end:

I've purchased several supposed "counterfeit" jerseys and I'm very happy with the quality I received. I'm a fan of the Kansas City Chiefs, and thanks to the timelessly simple jersey design, it's quite easy to find a jersey, on eBay or another placed looked down upon in this forum, that looks and feels just like the real thing. I've washed mine several times over the years and it's held up nicely. Got a new one this year that looks fantastic, Lamar Hunt patch and all.

What I don't get is that all of these jerseys, be they real or fake, are coming from the same part of the world, correct? Same materials, just different stitchers. Because of that, I don't see the big deal in paying $200 vs. $40 for the exact same jersey. Granted, there are fakes out there that are of horrendous quality and laughable authenticity, but the Chiefs jerseys I have are perfect, and coming from a jersey/logo/design enthusiast like myself I can say that with due diligence, and if I've found a jersey or two that just so happens to have the same materials made to the same specifications and is cheaper, I just don't see the big deal in purchasing one.

However, I will not ever purchase a "counterfeit" MLB jersey, and it comes down to one reason -- quality. Nowhere have I found a good looking Kansas City Royals jersey to purchase that meets the same quality found on the MLB.com store website. I'm lucky that Chiefs jerseys are easy to replicate, so I own several. But I do not own any Royals jerseys, and that's because of the ridiculous price on MLB.com ($200+) and because the authentics are available nowhere else.

I have no customer loyalty, I am just a customer. I will forever and always go with the best product for the lowest price. I think that's the most fair anyone can ask of me. If I'm able to get a perfect quality Chiefs jersey for $40, then you're damn right I'm going to purchase one, and not shed one tear that I'm not paying $200+ to the NFL owners, or whoever it is that gets my money. But the day the NFL lowers their prices, I'll be more than happy to give those same owners my money. I don't care who it's going to, all I want is quality for a reasonable price.

With that said, I was lucky enough to have won some money on a game show, and have decided that for the first time in my life I will be purchasing an MLB authentic jersey. I had no idea prices were so high now a days for a Cool Base jersey, I guess I hadn't looked at a price tag that closely in a few years, and was wondering if anyone here could recommend a good place to pick up a perfectly authentic jersey for a good price. The cheapest authentic retailer I've found so far is Jersey Joe.com, with a customizable Cool Base for $229.99 -- is there anywhere cheaper or am I about at that limit?

[charger77]

What I don't get is that all of these jerseys, be they real or fake, are coming from the same part of the world, correct? Same materials, just different stitchers. Because of that, I don't see the big deal in paying $200 vs. $40 for the exact same jersey. Granted, there are fakes out there that are of horrendous quality and laughable authenticity, but the Chiefs jerseys I have are perfect, and coming from a jersey/logo/design enthusiast like myself I can say that with due diligence, and if I've found a jersey or two that just so happens to have the same materials made to the same specifications and is cheaper, I just don't see the big deal in purchasing one.

The materials are definately not the same. Many times on the counterfit hockey jerseys the logos, names and numbers appear to be of the same material that the logos on a Starter jacket would be. Also, more often than not the fonts are off as well.

Not understanding why it is a big deal is one of the big "gear grinders" that many of us anti-countefitters have.

[thespungo]

What I don't get is that all of these jerseys, be they real or fake, are coming from the same part of the world, correct? Same materials, just different stitchers. Because of that, I don't see the big deal in paying $200 vs. $40 for the exact same jersey. Granted, there are fakes out there that are of horrendous quality and laughable authenticity, but the Chiefs jerseys I have are perfect, and coming from a jersey/logo/design enthusiast like myself I can say that with due diligence, and if I've found a jersey or two that just so happens to have the same materials made to the same specifications and is cheaper, I just don't see the big deal in purchasing one.

The materials are definately not the same. Many times on the counterfit hockey jerseys the logos, names and numbers appear to be of the same material that the logos on a Starter jacket would be. Also, more often than not the fonts are off as well.

Not understanding why it is a big deal is one of the big "gear grinders" that many of us anti-countefitters have.

I understand that many hockey counterfeits are not the same materials as the authentics, but the materials on the specific jerseys I've purchased are in great condition. Like I said, I've washed one throughout the years and it's held up great, while the newer one I purchased this past season looks and feels exactly like the real thing. Again, not all "counterfeits" are not of this high quality, I understand, but simple jersey designs like the Chiefs' are easier to replicate, and replicate well.

All jerseys come from the same part of the world, correct? So who's to say the same materials used to construct my jersey aren't the same used to construct jerseys purchased from the NFL store website?

[Brass]

Nice to see the supposed professional designer elesphen supporting IP theft.

I don't know where you people are finding these high quality fakes. I've seen plenty, and while some are pretty close, not one actually exceeds the official products, in either design or quality.

Agreed. He's got some good designs, too. I'm thinking of making some jerseys or shirts out of his logos, selling them and keeping all the money! Pretty sweet, eh?

[TalktoChuck]

What I don't get is that all of these jerseys, be they real or fake, are coming from the same part of the world, correct? Same materials, just different stitchers. Because of that, I don't see the big deal in paying $200 vs. $40 for the exact same jersey. Granted, there are fakes out there that are of horrendous quality and laughable authenticity, but the Chiefs jerseys I have are perfect, and coming from a jersey/logo/design enthusiast like myself I can say that with due diligence, and if I've found a jersey or two that just so happens to have the same materials made to the same specifications and is cheaper, I just don't see the big deal in purchasing one.

The materials are definately not the same. Many times on the counterfit hockey jerseys the logos, names and numbers appear to be of the same material that the logos on a Starter jacket would be. Also, more often than not the fonts are off as well.

Not understanding why it is a big deal is one of the big "gear grinders" that many of us anti-countefitters have.

I understand that many hockey counterfeits are not the same materials as the authentics, but the materials on the specific jerseys I've purchased are in great condition. Like I said, I've washed one throughout the years and it's held up great, while the newer one I purchased this past season looks and feels exactly like the real thing. Again, not all "counterfeits" are not of this high quality, I understand, but simple jersey designs like the Chiefs' are easier to replicate, and replicate well.

All jerseys come from the same part of the world, correct? So who's to say the same materials used to construct my jersey aren't the same used to construct jerseys purchased from the NFL store website?

They do not come from the same part of the world. As PCGD said earlier in the thread, NFL replicas are printed in Indiana. While (most) counterfeits are printed overseas.

[thespungo]

What I don't get is that all of these jerseys, be they real or fake, are coming from the same part of the world, correct? Same materials, just different stitchers. Because of that, I don't see the big deal in paying $200 vs. $40 for the exact same jersey. Granted, there are fakes out there that are of horrendous quality and laughable authenticity, but the Chiefs jerseys I have are perfect, and coming from a jersey/logo/design enthusiast like myself I can say that with due diligence, and if I've found a jersey or two that just so happens to have the same materials made to the same specifications and is cheaper, I just don't see the big deal in purchasing one.

The materials are definately not the same. Many times on the counterfit hockey jerseys the logos, names and numbers appear to be of the same material that the logos on a Starter jacket would be. Also, more often than not the fonts are off as well.

Not understanding why it is a big deal is one of the big "gear grinders" that many of us anti-countefitters have.

I understand that many hockey counterfeits are not the same materials as the authentics, but the materials on the specific jerseys I've purchased are in great condition. Like I said, I've washed one throughout the years and it's held up great, while the newer one I purchased this past season looks and feels exactly like the real thing. Again, not all "counterfeits" are not of this high quality, I understand, but simple jersey designs like the Chiefs' are easier to replicate, and replicate well.

All jerseys come from the same part of the world, correct? So who's to say the same materials used to construct my jersey aren't the same used to construct jerseys purchased from the NFL store website?

They do not come from the same part of the world. As PCGD said earlier in the thread, NFL replicas are printed in Indiana. While (most) counterfeits are printed overseas.

I don't think replicas are a part of this conversation, as even the quality straight from the NFL is quite dubious.

Where are the NFL authentics manufactured?

[imawalkingcorpse]

I saw a few fakes and they were awful, a couple of the throwback Buccaneer Logo Athletic. I won't buy a fake, never have, never will. That being said when Nike gets the NFL license and they bring replica NFL jersey's back to the 50.00 price point they should be then I will buy an NFL replica jersey. I haven't bought an NFL jersey in 10 year simply because Reebok ruined them.

[ElwoodCuse]

They just seized a ton of counterfeit jerseys at a freight terminal around here and as a result the letters to the editors page got a bunch of comments lately. A couple of them were actually not-so-veiled bigotry against illegal immigrants for some reason and there were a couple "oh boy I feel SO MUCH SAFER now that the government has seized illegal clothes". Um, yeah, that's what ICE is for, to enforce laws relating to imports and goods. But in these people's imaginations, they ignored the van full of illegal immigrants and a couple hundred kilos of cocaine so they could seize counterfeit jerseys.

[IceCap]

Even though this thread is a mess with arguments, and my opinion won't be appreciated by most, I'll throw my two cents in here, followed by a question at the end:

I've purchased several supposed "counterfeit" jerseys and I'm very happy with the quality I received. I'm a fan of the Kansas City Chiefs, and thanks to the timelessly simple jersey design, it's quite easy to find a jersey, on eBay or another placed looked down upon in this forum, that looks and feels just like the real thing. I've washed mine several times over the years and it's held up nicely. Got a new one this year that looks fantastic, Lamar Hunt patch and all.

What I don't get is that all of these jerseys, be they real or fake, are coming from the same part of the world, correct? Same materials, just different stitchers. Because of that, I don't see the big deal in paying $200 vs. $40 for the exact same jersey. Granted, there are fakes out there that are of horrendous quality and laughable authenticity, but the Chiefs jerseys I have are perfect, and coming from a jersey/logo/design enthusiast like myself I can say that with due diligence, and if I've found a jersey or two that just so happens to have the same materials made to the same specifications and is cheaper, I just don't see the big deal in purchasing one.

However, I will not ever purchase a "counterfeit" MLB jersey, and it comes down to one reason -- quality. Nowhere have I found a good looking Kansas City Royals jersey to purchase that meets the same quality found on the MLB.com store website. I'm lucky that Chiefs jerseys are easy to replicate, so I own several. But I do not own any Royals jerseys, and that's because of the ridiculous price on MLB.com ($200+) and because the authentics are available nowhere else.

I have no customer loyalty, I am just a customer. I will forever and always go with the best product for the lowest price. I think that's the most fair anyone can ask of me. If I'm able to get a perfect quality Chiefs jersey for $40, then you're damn right I'm going to purchase one, and not shed one tear that I'm not paying $200+ to the NFL owners, or whoever it is that gets my money. But the day the NFL lowers their prices, I'll be more than happy to give those same owners my money. I don't care who it's going to, all I want is quality for a reasonable price.

With that said, I was lucky enough to have won some money on a game show, and have decided that for the first time in my life I will be purchasing an MLB authentic jersey. I had no idea prices were so high now a days for a Cool Base jersey, I guess I hadn't looked at a price tag that closely in a few years, and was wondering if anyone here could recommend a good place to pick up a perfectly authentic jersey for a good price. The cheapest authentic retailer I've found so far is Jersey Joe.com, with a customizable Cool Base for $229.99 -- is there anywhere cheaper or am I about at that limit?

If you cannot understand what's wrong with intellectual property theft then there's no hope for you, frankly. Especially seeing as you've come to defend it on a board populated by a fair number of professional designers.

Look, as we've said before, if you know it's wrong and accept that you're contributing to an illegal activity but just say "screw it, I just want a cheap jersey" then we don't really have a problem. You're a grown-up. If you know the facts and still want to do it, and are willing to accept the consequences, then go for it.

It's when you either don't understand why it's wrong or you turn it around and try to pretend you're doing the right thing by buying fakes that we have a problem. It not only proves you're woefully ignorant of the law, it proves you can't grasp basic concepts of right and wrong and that you have an inflated sense of self-entitlement.

[Sodboy13]

I saw a few fakes and they were awful, a couple of the throwback Buccaneer Logo Athletic. I won't buy a fake, never have, never will. That being said when Nike gets the NFL license and they bring replica NFL jersey's back to the 50.00 price point they should be then I will buy an NFL replica jersey. I haven't bought an NFL jersey in 10 year simply because Reebok ruined them.

Nike is currently selling college replicas for $55-60, correct?

[JQK]

If you cannot understand what's wrong with intellectual property theft then there's no hope for you, frankly.

Do the designers get residual payments for every jersey with their logo or design sold?

Or are they payed a one-time fee for their work?

[IceCap]

If you cannot understand what's wrong with intellectual property theft then there's no hope for you, frankly.

Do the designers get residual payments for every jersey with their logo or design sold?

Or are they payed a one-time fee for their work?

The logos are owned by their teams/the league, not the people who designed them. The people who designed them turned the rights to their work over to said team/league. There's nothing legally wrong here, because there was a legal transfer of IP rights from the artist to the team/league.

[infrared41]

If you cannot understand what's wrong with intellectual property theft then there's no hope for you, frankly.

Do the designers get residual payments for every jersey with their logo or design sold?

Or are they payed a one-time fee for their work?

After downloading "The Penalty Box" and giving it a listen I've decided I really like your show so whether you like it or not I'm going air it on my radio station. We're also going to print up t-shirts and bumper stickers using your logo. We're getting the shirts made for 5 bucks and selling them for $25. The bumper stickers are costing us around 8 cents and we're selling them for $2. Since we're not paying you or your partner a salary or for the rights to your show we're really happy with the profit margin on both the commercials and the merchandise sales.

Also, we need you to replace 97.9 with AM 1340 on this.

And we'll need you to replace "Edge.FM" with AM 1340 on this.

Keep up the good work and thanks for the free programming.

No one in this thread has a problem with any of this right?

[BBTV]

So if price is all that matters, why buy a TV for $2000 when you can get the same one for $500? So what if that the ones you are buying for $500 were stolen out of your neighbors' homes, that's not your problem, you're getting a deal. Of course, buy purchasing these obviously stolen TVs, you're creating a market for it and encouraging thieves to break in and steal more TVs to sell, but who cares - you got yours. Well, until it gets stolen and sold to your neighbor for $500.

Just because one is a physical product with a forced-entry method of stealing and one is IP which is easily stolen without anyone getting physically harmed doesn't really make it much different. Except to most of you of course.

[infrared41]

So if price is all that matters, why buy a TV for $2000 when you can get the same one for $500? So what if that the ones you are buying for $500 were stolen out of your neighbors' homes, that's not your problem, you're getting a deal. Of course, buy purchasing these obviously stolen TVs, you're creating a market for it and encouraging thieves to break in and steal more TVs to sell, but who cares - you got yours. Well, until it gets stolen and sold to your neighbor for $500.

Just because one is a physical product with a forced-entry method of stealing and one is IP which is easily stolen without anyone getting physically harmed doesn't really make it much different. Except to most of you of course.

Well said. It simply floors me that so many people think this kind of thing is no big deal. Especially here of all places.

[JQK]

Infared, that makes no sense. Those are my logos that i have made and havn't given the rights away to.

With the NFL and such, the artists already made their money.

[IceCap]

Infared, that makes no sense. Those are my logos that i have made and havn't given the rights away to.

With the NFL and such, the artists already made their money.

Yes, but the NFL owns the IP rights now. As long as someone wants a product with a NFL logo on it, the NFL deserves the cash.

[JQK]

I don't disagree, but when you out-price a product, people will find alternatives, legal or not.