NFL Changes 2015

[guest23]

Not to harp on this helmet issue and I won't quote the entire thread. But because people were asking for a reference:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9694560/no-break-process-new-nfl-helmets

Interesting...

From the article. here's a quick exchange between the interviewer and an NFL equipment manager...

"UW: The underlying theory is apparently that it's safer to stick with one helmet for the whole season.

EG: I think that's the big message that the NFL's trying to give. But I think, personally, one of the bigger issues is that there are currently guys in the NFL -- on our team, on every team -- who wear helmets that aren't made anymore, like the Riddell VSR4. Riddell doesn't make that helmet anymore. So whatever we have in stock is what we give to players who like that helmet. And after this year, we're going to run out, so players will eventually have to switch to something else.

UW: But what does that have to do with the new rule?

EG: Let's say you're a team with a throwback helmet, and you're not going to be able to get a certain player his preferred helmet model because it's not made anymore. So now he's not just wearing a different helmet -- he's wearing a different type of helmet. I think the NFL, with all those lawsuits they're dealing with, they don't want to have a guy switching to a different helmet for one game, then he gets hurt, and then he says, "Well, I had to switch to a different helmet because they made us wear these throwbacks."

UW: That's really interesting. So you're saying the NFL is concerned about players who wouldn't be able to get a true duplicate of their current helmet because they're wearing obsolete equipment.

EG: I think that's their bigger concern, yes. They don't want a situation where a player has to change to a different model, and then something goes wrong, and that's on their plate. Now, again, that problem will soon go away, at least for our team, because we'll run out of stock on those helmets that aren't made anymore. But other teams may have more stock on those."

Which answers the question about why colleges don't worry about it. The longest any college player could be using the same helmet is 4 years, at most. I've heard stories of veteran NFL players using a single helmet for a decade, and even repainting it when switching teams.

This is likely made up or exaggerated story. The companies may not sell the older models but they have continue to make them in limited quantities to satisfy the limited needs of players that still use them. Sure Brady can use his riddell for a decade but what about Jared Allen? He wears an riddell VSR4 and playing his position you need at least one backup helmet if not multiple as the shells crack which renders the helmet useless. Are the players expected to change models mid season if they run out? Why haven't we seen more legacy helmet users ditch their old models when they break? It's been something like 10 years since the vsr4 was discontinued for sale. He's not the only one as there are problem dozen players left wearing them. As long as the players are in the league there will be some inventory for replacement.

The more likely scenario is that helmet orders are placed in the offseason and riddell vsr4's can be ordered to whatever quantity each offseason. If a team wants to wear two helmets they place a special order early out. It may be more inconvenient to manage as you need extra stock but not impossible.

This is an awesome way to conduct a debate. "Well, this goes against the point I was making, so I'm just going to say it isn't true." Can I ask what could possibly be the reason a random equipment manager would make up such a nuanced (and by the way, completely believable) explanation? Why would he care enough to go to the trouble?

The equipment manager is on the team's payroll. There's a vested interest in creating any narrative to support the corporate message or provide the press with some nugget so they will be satisfied and not ask follow up questions which will cause the topic to die off.

I raised legitimate doubts about said nuanced explanations based on the fact that maintaining adequate for backup inventory would likely require continued production, albeit in minimal quantities. Also having experience in dealing with firms that produce products, it's very easy to reproduce discontinued products as long as the equipment and designs have not been destroyed. Also if such helmets were in fact no longer available for replacement the league would force players into newer and replaceable models for safety reasons.

Sure, but earlier in the thread when someone brought up the idea of the players being at odds with the idea of switching helmets, you asked if they could give an example of this ever actually happening. So here is an NFL equipment manager saying basically that exact thing, and the first response is "He's lying" and now the second response is "booga booga great corporate conspiracy" that trickles all the way down to a random interview with Uniwatch. Talk about scenarios that are hard to swallow.

Plus, dismissing the very idea that a player might object to being asked to switch his helmet for no real reason (and yes, in the real world cool throwbacks are basically no real reason) seems a little close minded. Tell you what... you post some info from some expert proving that multiple helmets could not possible cause any issue what so ever, and I'll respond with, "Aahhh, bastard's obviously lying."

An anonymous equipment manager likely part of the giants staff due to lukas' ongoing relationship. Isn't that the same staff that got nailed for passing off generic player issued gear as being game worn? Yeah they have a ton of credibility. Why won't any equipment manager or riddell/schutt for that matter, go on the record? If this policy is so cut and dry a simple press release with a simple citation would suffice. I know, let's take everything we read at face value since stakeholders with an agenda never take advantage of or lie to the press for their own benefit.

Also I asked for a citation of this claim from one of the player lawsuits in order to support the legal reasoning of this policy. What I was provided was an irrelevant citation from a blogger conversing with an equipment manager.

Where is the evidence that players have sued the league and claimed that wearing a 2nd helmet during a season contributed to their brain damage/head injuries? That was the crux of the argument right?

[ltjets21]

Maybe this shows credibility to what he was saying, Pats ran out of the VSR-4 Brady may of had to change.

[Gothamite]

Teams can't force players to adopt different safety equipment until the CBA says they can. Which, to my knowledge, isn't in there yet.

that's interesting. that would definitely be my way to go about it if i had my way. of course, there would be some sort of measurement to make with the helmets to make sure they met a certain grade of safety and weather or not that would be what Virginia Tech has done with their studies i dont know. i just dont like the idea of a guy using a poor helmet design (like Demarco Murray especially) just because "it's what i've always worn".

I think you're presuming that "old helmet design" equals "poor helmet design". Which is not necessarily the case.

[mjd77]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/25/packers-expected-to-ditch-their-old-school-alternate-uniforms/

RIP blue and gold alternate.

Old news. ProFootballTalk is way behind the curve on this one.

We've known since November that the Packers were introducing a new alternate.

http://packersuniforms.blogspot.com/2014/11/what-will-replace-acme-packers.html

Did you see the ESPN WI article on this?

Original article: http://www.espnwisconsin.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=40&post_id=47651&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Came with three concepts attached that were interesting nontheless.

Obviously the above are just concepts, but still sort of interesting to add them to the article. Also interesting to know all the old Alt Acme Packer stuff is currently on clearance in the Pro Shop. Has there been any hints into the direction they want to take the new Alts?

I like this concept the best. It would be nice to see that on the field.

[ltjets21]

Teams can't force players to adopt different safety equipment until the CBA says they can. Which, to my knowledge, isn't in there yet.

that's interesting. that would definitely be my way to go about it if i had my way. of course, there would be some sort of measurement to make with the helmets to make sure they met a certain grade of safety and weather or not that would be what Virginia Tech has done with their studies i dont know. i just dont like the idea of a guy using a poor helmet design (like Demarco Murray especially) just because "it's what i've always worn".

I think you're presuming that "old helmet design" equals "poor helmet design". Which is not necessarily the case.

http://www.sbes.vt.edu/helmet.php

With the most recent helmet studies you can see the old helmets Schutt Air Advantage and Riddell VSR-4 rate the lowest.

[IceCap]

Teams can't force players to adopt different safety equipment until the CBA says they can. Which, to my knowledge, isn't in there yet.

that's interesting. that would definitely be my way to go about it if i had my way. of course, there would be some sort of measurement to make with the helmets to make sure they met a certain grade of safety and weather or not that would be what Virginia Tech has done with their studies i dont know. i just dont like the idea of a guy using a poor helmet design (like Demarco Murray especially) just because "it's what i've always worn".

I think you're presuming that "old helmet design" equals "poor helmet design". Which is not necessarily the case.

In many cases they're better because they don't provide as much protection. More incentive for the player to keep his head out of harm's way.

[guest23]

Teams can't force players to adopt different safety equipment until the CBA says they can. Which, to my knowledge, isn't in there yet.

that's interesting. that would definitely be my way to go about it if i had my way. of course, there would be some sort of measurement to make with the helmets to make sure they met a certain grade of safety and weather or not that would be what Virginia Tech has done with their studies i dont know. i just dont like the idea of a guy using a poor helmet design (like Demarco Murray especially) just because "it's what i've always worn".

I think you're presuming that "old helmet design" equals "poor helmet design". Which is not necessarily the case.

In many cases they're better because they don't provide as much protection. More incentive for the player to keep his head out of harm's way.

Bring back canvas strap suspension helmets and bloody foreheads!

[BrandMooreArt]

Teams can't force players to adopt different safety equipment until the CBA says they can. Which, to my knowledge, isn't in there yet.

that's interesting. that would definitely be my way to go about it if i had my way. of course, there would be some sort of measurement to make with the helmets to make sure they met a certain grade of safety and weather or not that would be what Virginia Tech has done with their studies i dont know. i just dont like the idea of a guy using a poor helmet design (like Demarco Murray especially) just because "it's what i've always worn".

I think you're presuming that "old helmet design" equals "poor helmet design". Which is not necessarily the case.

In many cases they're better because they don't provide as much protection. More incentive for the player to keep his head out of harm's way.

yea like i said i'd like to see a good unit of measurement and i'm just not sure if a good one exists yet or not. but older helmets were designed to prevent skull fractures and newer helmets are focusing on limiting concussions with lighter materials, protection of the chin, foam padding, etc.

[Gothamite]

Bring back canvas strap suspension helmets and bloody foreheads!

No, you're not thinking big enough.

Ban plastic shells altogether, as they were back when they were first introduced. As originally feared, they've made the game much less safe. Something like a rugby style scrum cap at most, to protect against abrasions but not encourage a player to hit with his head.

[guest23]

Maybe this shows credibility to what he was saying, Pats ran out of the VSR-4 Brady may of had to change.

He also had a sliver version that he wore a few games and reverted back to the vsr4. I think he also wore an xp that season at least in preseason.

For even a select few players to wear the vsr4 there simply has to be replacement inventory. If you play any interior position that has contact every play there's a realistic chance that the shell will not make it through the season and you simply cannot repair a shell once it cracks/fails in the nfl. That would be taking a major risk.

[guest23]

Bring back canvas strap suspension helmets and bloody foreheads!

No, you're not thinking big enough.

Ban plastic shells altogether, as they were originally. They've made the game much less safe. Something like a rugby style scrum cap at most, to protect against abrasions but not encourage a player to hit with his head.

Haha I'm sure we've hit on that before and I am in support of the idea. I am definitely intrigued by the concept. I could also see some sort of soft pad (rugbyish) football spring league based on 8 man football rules. Kind of a gridiron/rugby hybrid, wide open play with solid form tackling being the mandated rule.

[ConcreteCharlie]

I would love it if NFL went full leatherhead

[oldschoolvikings]

I would love it if NFL went full leatherhead

More likely ballistic nylon head.

[ConcreteCharlie]

I would love it if NFL went full leatherhead

More likely ballistic nylon head.

yikes

[EJ_Barlik]

Yeah, that never happened...... (thank goodness)

[EJ_Barlik]

My opinion is that this one is the best of the 3 concepts shown.

[Cosmic]

Teams can't force players to adopt different safety equipment until the CBA says they can. Which, to my knowledge, isn't in there yet.

that's interesting. that would definitely be my way to go about it if i had my way. of course, there would be some sort of measurement to make with the helmets to make sure they met a certain grade of safety and weather or not that would be what Virginia Tech has done with their studies i dont know. i just dont like the idea of a guy using a poor helmet design (like Demarco Murray especially) just because "it's what i've always worn".

I think you're presuming that "old helmet design" equals "poor helmet design". Which is not necessarily the case.

http://www.sbes.vt.edu/helmet.php

With the most recent helmet studies you can see the old helmets Schutt Air Advantage and Riddell VSR-4 rate the lowest.

... and then in five years, there's a test that comes out that says the "safe" helmets of today cause Ebola or something... that's how the NFL's lawyers will think. Telling players which helmet models to wear is almost like giving medical advice, and it creates an extra level of liability on the league's part.

If you were a conspiracy theorist, you might even say the league will deflect blame in the lawsuits of the 2030s by citing instances of the plaintiffs continuing to use older helmets when newer, safer models were available.

[Diamond Dweller]

The Packers need to cut the navy and yellow nonsense.

[Gothamite]

Don't hold your breath.

[mmajeski06]

I like the concept posted above, but damn the G in a football shaped oval is awesome!