Ark

NHL in Houston

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1 hour ago, 29texan said:

 

I honestly don't think that matters.

If an owner wants to move a team, he or she will make it happen regardless of any fees. Ask Atlanta.... 

 

Oh it's definitely possible, I just think that fellow owners and the NHL as a whole are going to be looking at untapped markets for the expansion fee that it will bring. Atlanta had a pretty good landing spot with Winnipeg. Not saying that relocation can't or won't happen, I just think that there's going to be immense pressure in 2017 to get those expansion fees, Vegas has set the precedent. Every owner wins when that happens. And despite what they'd like you to believe, none of these guys are losing money. Go back to before the salary cap. Teams like Edmonton and Calgary were two of the loudest in demanding a salary cap for "competitive reasons"...and I'm to believe that ownership of those teams were really losing money despite packed barns and (relatively) high ticket prices? Come on now. 

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Houston Aeros won in the WHA.

 

Houston Aeros won in the IHL.

 

Houston Aeros won in the AHL.

 

If Houston should land an NHL team, they'll win as well as the Aeros.

 

DUUUH!!! It's a freakin' no brainer!

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On 11/20/2017 at 1:01 AM, 29texan said:

 

I honestly don't think that matters.

If an owner wants to move a team, he or she will make it happen regardless of any fees. Ask Atlanta.... 

 

Atlanta's ownership (Atlanta Spirit Group) didn't move the team. They didn't want to own the team, so they sold it to an out-of-town buyer (Mark Chipman). 

 

Peter Karmanos (Hartford), Norm Green (Minnesota), or Barry Shenkarow (Winnipeg) would be better examples of owners that picked up their team and moved them while continuing to own them. 

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13 hours ago, thebigeh said:

Houston Aeros won in the WHA.

 

Houston Aeros won in the IHL.

 

Houston Aeros won in the AHL.

 

If Houston should land an NHL team, they'll win as well as the Aeros.

 

DUUUH!!! It's a freakin' no brainer!

Well, not quite.

 

If someone already owns that name, it might not be that easy.

I know they were the Wild's AHL team (and the Wild owned them) so do the Wild own the rights to that name?

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6 hours ago, BrianLion said:

Peter Karmanos (Hartford), Norm Green (Minnesota), or Barry Shenkarow (Winnipeg) would be better examples of owners that picked up their team and moved them while continuing to own them. 

 

Shenkarow sold the team to Minneapolis-based businessmen who were going to move the team there but failed to come to an agreement with the Timberwolves on use of the Target Center, just as the North Stars did before. Then Bettman rang up Jerry Colangelo and brokered the agreement with the Suns that had absolutely no long-term ramifications for the health of the franchise and was definitely successful for everyone involved.

 

I think Shenkarow is a mere realtor now, incidentally, but he was definitely out by the end of the last season in Winnipeg. Either he made that dumbass Selanne trade to spite the new owners or the new owners made the dumbass Selanne trade themselves because they were poor and/or dumb, I forget.

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I would think Aeros would work, but not with airplane imagery. Use space/astronaut imagery to fit in with the Rockets, Astros, and Texans.... hey they have a star! ;)

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1 hour ago, wildwing64 said:
On 11/18/2017 at 9:13 PM, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

Rule of thumb: if a city doesn't get snow, then it shouldn't have an NHL team.

 

Is Houston allowed a team now? :upside:

 

Zounds! Hoist with my own petard!

 

Aaaaaaanyway -- this epic snowfall does not negate the issue worth addressing, namely, the error that the NHL makes in attempting to have a national footprint in the U.S.  There would be nothing wrong with the NHL being a regional entity in the U.S., with teams only in cold-weather cities, instead of in a place like Houston, where the average winter low temperature doesn't come within a dozen degrees Fahrenheit of freezing, and the mere appearance of snow or ice is considered a newsworthy event.

 

What's more, it is very aggravating to see the NHL looking at places such as Las Vegas and Houston while it ignores Canadian locations such as Quebec City or Saskatoon or Halifax, or perhaps Hamilton or even a second team in Toronto.  If American cities are going to be considered, these should be cold northern places such as Milwaukee, or maybe Seattle, which doesn't freeze much but is at least near to Canada.

 

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4 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

Zounds! Hoist with my own petard!

 

Aaaaaaanyway -- this epic snowfall does not negate the issue worth addressing, namely, the error that the NHL makes in attempting to have a national footprint in the U.S.  There would be nothing wrong with the NHL being a regional entity in the U.S., with teams only in cold-weather cities, instead of in a place like Houston, where the average winter low temperature doesn't come within a dozen degrees Fahrenheit of freezing, and the mere appearance of snow or ice is considered a newsworthy event.

 

What's more, it is very aggravating to see the NHL looking at places such as Las Vegas and Houston while it ignores Canadian locations such as Quebec City or Saskatoon or Halifax, or perhaps Hamilton or even a second team in Toronto.  If American cities are going to be considered, these should be cold northern places such as Milwaukee, or maybe Seattle, which doesn't freeze much but is at least near to Canada.

 


Houston is one of the most diverse cities in the world, it's the 4th largest city in the US, with large number of transplants,  and it has plenty of million dollar corporations, which would be the target demo for season tickets. That's why it would make a ton of sense to have a team in Houston, plus it has a new, existing arena in place. 

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7 minutes ago, shaydre1019 said:

Houston is one of the most diverse cities in the world, it's the 4th largest city in the US, with large number of transplants,  and it has plenty of million dollar corporations, which would be the target demo for season tickets. That's why it would make a ton of sense to have a team in Houston, plus it has a new, existing arena in place. 

You could say something similar about Atlanta. Look how that worked out. Twice. 

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If there is an NHL team in Houston, I hope they use Houston Oilers colors. 

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The Aeros were always one if the better teams in the AHL in attendance before moving to Iowa. I think a team in Houston would have no troubles with an NHL team.

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18 hours ago, Ice_Cap said:

You could say something similar about Atlanta. 

 

You could also say the same about Dallas and L.A., and the Bay Area... 

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Not being in both Northern and Southern California would be lunacy, come on. I don't go as far as "hockey only belongs where it snows a lot," but you should take care of those places before you start chasing down swamp-assed suburbs from hell like Houston and Atlanta.

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I've noticed many people have said that Houston Aeros had good attendance, so that means they will be a decent hockey market. When it comes to market viability, using minor league attendance doesn't mean anything. Here are the yearly averages from the AHL Aeros (Note: they started playing at Toyota Center in 2003-04):

image_att_graph.php?tmi%5B0%5D=6119&

 

Since everybody has been comparing Houston and Atlanta, here are the numbers for both the ECHL's Gwinnett/Atlanta Gladiators and the IHL's Atlanta Knights:

image_att_graph.php?tmi%5B0%5D=5960&

 

image_att_graph.php?tmi%5B0%5D=4681&

 

The numbers for both cities are very similar. As a matter of fact, the Knights had better attendance numbers than the AHL Aeros did. There are obviously many other factors that can be used to look into it (economy, prices, etc.), but to just say "they had good minor league numbers, so that means they'll be a good NHL market", doesn't mean anything.

 

For the record, I think they deserve a shot at a team. It's worth trying a new market out rather than keeping some teams that have been struggling for over a decade afloat forever. I don't have a problem with Sunbelt HockeyTM, but only if the markets have at least mild success (Nashville, Tampa, Dallas for example).

 

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1 hour ago, chrysleraspen08 said:

For the record, I think they deserve a shot at a team. It's worth trying a new market out rather than keeping some teams that have been struggling for over a decade afloat forever. I don't have a problem with Sunbelt HockeyTM, but only if the markets have at least mild success (Nashville, Tampa, Dallas for example).

I think there's too much Sunbelt Hockey. Clearly Tampa Bay is a great location for a team, and Nashville is becoming successful, and all of the California teams have had good success, but there are lots of places that haven't had that same amount. Teams like the Panthers, Hurricanes, Coyotes, and the former Atlanta Thrashers and Flames all suck(ed). They're terrible franchises.

 

The NHL, and the game of hockey in general, (whatever ruling body you want,) should help diversify the game more before trying to push south. Maybe make sure that the teams in the traditional markets are doing well, and are the #1, #2 team in that city... And then maybe see if a city like Houston could work. If the game is brought to more attention on a national level, and reaches all sorts of people, not just the rich white people, then maybe the "Grow the Game" initiative might actually work... 

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1 hour ago, chcarlson23 said:

I think there's too much Sunbelt Hockey. Clearly Tampa Bay is a great location for a team, and Nashville is becoming successful, and all of the California teams have had good success, but there are lots of places that haven't had that same amount. Teams like the Panthers, Hurricanes, Coyotes, and the former Atlanta Thrashers and Flames all suck(ed). They're terrible franchises.

 

The NHL, and the game of hockey in general, (whatever ruling body you want,) should help diversify the game more before trying to push south. Maybe make sure that the teams in the traditional markets are doing well, and are the #1, #2 team in that city... And then maybe see if a city like Houston could work. If the game is brought to more attention on a national level, and reaches all sorts of people, not just the rich white people, then maybe the "Grow the Game" initiative might actually work... 

 

The Panthers, Hurricanes and the Coyotes were the exemptions to what I was saying. Aside from attendance spikes during playoff runs or new arenas, they've never really been successful.

 

When it comes to growing the game more in traditional markets, I personally don't believe there are a lot of failures there at the moment (I consider a failure consistently drawing below an average of 16,000, unless you're Winnipeg since they can't draw that due to arena capacity). Most of the ones that do exist are due to either arena issues (Islanders) or consistent mediocrity (Blue Jackets), but overall nothing to cause major concern yet (depending on if the Islanders get their new arena or not). As for being #1 or #2 in their city, that's something that will never happen for many teams, regardless of how successful they are because of the popularity of the NFL, NBA, and MLB in the US. I honestly wouldn't even be shocked to see it on the same level as the MLS in a decade or so due to the recent growth of that league.

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On 12/8/2017 at 1:42 PM, Ark said:

If there is an NHL team in Houston, I hope they use Houston Oilers colors. 

You sir, have given me my next Create-A-Team idea. 

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Houston is a perfectly suited place to support hockey. IMO, just a matter of time. IMO, hockey can work in Miami. No need to have teams in PHX and Carolina though. Other than that I am fine with the Sun Belt having hockey. 

 

Houston Swamp Dragons

 

Colors: Green, Purple and Gold

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