Cleveland Indians become the Cleveland Guardians

[Digby]

1 hour ago, McCall said:

How many people actually knew that? I'm a pretty die-hard baseball fan and even I would've had to look that up if someone had asked me before this thread. The vast majority of fans are not gonna know or probably even care considering it was 1899.

 

I'd never have heard of the Spiders if not for this board. Not exactly the Brooklyn Dodgers we're talking about here. In that sense it feels like the the terrible record shouldn't be disqualifying, but on the same token, the supposed ~history~ of the name shouldn't be an automatic shoo-in, either.

[AnPheitseog]

After sitting on it, I refuse to accept whatever the new name is going to be.

 

The Cleveland team will always be the Cleveland Clevelands, regardless of what name they try to use.

[Sport]

On 12/17/2020 at 4:41 PM, the admiral said:

 

Every team is bad if you take away the good years. It's the inverse of every meathead football coach who ever said "take away those five touchdowns they scored on us and we win that game." It isn't that the Spiders were bad, it's that they were answer-to-a-trivia-question bad. 

So are the 76 Buccaneers. Who cares? The bad Spiders happened when baseball had been a sport for like 11 years and the reasons for the bad play was entirely due to early days of professional baseball barnstorming tomfoolery so you can excuse it and even embrace it for quaint novel reasons. I think we can forgive their badness in the pursuit of a cool name. It's not like I want them to be called the Bridegrooms or something. 

[spartacat_12]

18 hours ago, floydnimrod said:

The Cleveland Jakes. Or better yet: The Cleveland The Jake. Each year a different Jake is rotated as the logo. Think of the merchandise sales!

 

Named after the greatest catcher in franchise history.

 

[MJWalker45]

17 hours ago, IceCap said:

"Spiders" is the obvious choice. They don't need to keep the red and navy, but I'd like them to. 

That being said, I'd be fine with a different colour scheme. They should avoid stuff like purple or black though. "Spiders" works as a name for historical reasons, but pairing it with a teenage boy's idea of a "" colour scheme will make the whole thing seem second rate.

"Spiders" is a name that needs a traditional colour scheme to keep it all grounded. 

I think the example of using brown and red could be a good starting point. If people want to keep the current colors, there's always the possibility of doing a Cooperstown uniform with the current uniform cut instead of attempting to use era accurate cuts. 

[IceCap]

8 hours ago, O.C.D said:

At no point would I suggest that human beings should have segregation forced upon them or that races can't or shouldn't mix with one another. I'm not sure why you thought that's what I meant, but I assure you it wasn't

I thought that's what you meant because that's what popped into my head reading your posts. 

"Ethnicities aren't interchangeable" really does read like that to me. Sorry if you're flustered that's how it came off to someone else, but  

I think you'd rather deal with me telling you my honest opinion on the matter than holding back and continuing to hold that opinion to myself. 

 

8 hours ago, Silent Wind of Doom said:

Is "interchangeable" a charged word?   I've never heard it used in any racial context.

You're using it in a racial context. In this conversation. 

 

8 hours ago, Silent Wind of Doom said:

This looks like someone being jumped on for saying something you've gotta really stretch to misunderstand.

Like I told OCD above, it's how it legitimately came across to me. I don't know what to tell you if you don't get that, but it's my honest reaction. 

 

8 hours ago, Silent Wind of Doom said:

  I don't prejudge people.

You just did. You assumed I said what I said because I was "really [stretching] to misunderstand" rather than consider that maybe, just maybe, my reaction to what you and OCD said was genuine. 

 

8 hours ago, Silent Wind of Doom said:

no one listens or stops to think for a second

Practice what you preach and maybe this will hold weight. 

 

8 hours ago, Silent Wind of Doom said:

I'm so tired of the way people act.

So am I. I'm tired of people being called out for being "PC POLICE!!"/virtue signallers/being "SJWs"/cultural warriors just because they're bothered by stuff like this and think there's a better way forward. 

You don't have to agree with them, but geeze. People like to moan about how "no one stops to listen and have a conversation anymore" before calling someone a "virtue signalling SJW" for suggesting that the cartoon Native logo just might be racist. 

 

It cuts both ways here. 

[JonBoy]

Not sure why, but I like the Barons as a name.  I was looking up the significance on why the hockey team had the name and found a couple interesting facts (that I'm sure some already know).  The NHL Barons were only around 2 seasons (1976-1978) and were named after a minor league team that played from 1929-1973.  Except they didn't become the Barons until 1937.  Originally, they were the Cleveland Indians.

[Gothamite]

1 hour ago, IceCap said:

I'm tired of people being called out for being "PC POLICE!!"/virtue signallers/being "SJWs"/cultural warriors just because they're bothered by stuff like this and think there's a better way forward. 

You don't have to agree with them, but geeze. People like to moan about how "no one stops to listen and have a conversation anymore" before calling someone a "virtue signalling SJW" for suggesting that the cartoon Native logo just might be racist. 

 

It cuts both ways here. 

Seconded. 

[tigerslionspistonshabs]

1 hour ago, JonBoy said:

Not sure why, but I like the Barons as a name.  I was looking up the significance on why the hockey team had the name and found a couple interesting facts (that I'm sure some already know).  The NHL Barons were only around 2 seasons (1976-1978) and were named after a minor league team that played from 1929-1973.  Except they didn't become the Barons until 1937.  Originally, they were the Cleveland Indians.

 

I agree. Barons is a solid choice and seems to fit baseball, ie. Birmingham Barons. 

 

Yes, they were also a horrible hockey team but I think that they're so much of an afterthought that no one would care. 

[ManillaToad]

there's only a couple bird teams in MLB, how about the Cleveland Ravens

[tigerslionspistonshabs]

5 minutes ago, ManillaToad said:

there's only a couple bird teams in MLB, how about the Cleveland Ravens

 

Named after the Cleveland Browns 1.0 who left town overnight and then went on to win 2 Superbowls? 

 

I doubt it.

[infrared41]

6 minutes ago, ManillaToad said:

there's only a couple bird teams in MLB, how about the Cleveland Ravens

 

Ravens would go over great in Cleveland.

[Survival79]

4 hours ago, _J_ said:

After sitting on it, I refuse to accept whatever the new name is going to be.

 

The Cleveland team will always be the Cleveland Clevelands, regardless of what name they try to use.

 

You mean the Cleveland Cleavelands, right?

 

[DG_ThenNowForever]

On 12/16/2020 at 8:01 AM, infrared41 said:

 

 

I just now got the "joke" of "Cleveland Brown." I'm an idiot.

[infrared41]

3 minutes ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

 

I just now got the "joke" of "Cleveland Brown." I'm an idiot.

 

We're both idiots. I was going for Cleveland Clevelands. Cleveland Brown never occurred to me.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

We spend a lot of time mocking/gently ribbing European soccer teams for their naming conventions, but there's a real beauty and simplicity in City Name [Sport] Club that really short circuits all of these naming considerations. The American convention of City/University Nickname is precious and great in its own way, but makes any kind of change really difficult. And given our culture's general conservatism toward much of everything, that makes a lot of sense.

 

But if the Indians had been originally set up as Cleveland BC and we have Chicago HC and New York AL BC and LA AL BC (ouch), things would be a whole lot easier around her. You can still do an icon in a logo/badge, but it wouldn't necessarily have to be so closely tied with the team name.

 

I know you have the Manchester United "Red Devils" and the Wolverhampton Wanderers "Wolves" and Hull City "Tigers" and those are all kind of functionally the same, but at the same time, also not really.

[Silent Wind of Doom]

2 hours ago, IceCap said:

Like I told OCD above, it's how it legitimately came across to me. I don't know what to tell you if you don't get that, but it's my honest reaction. 

 

Then you misunderstood.  I never attributed any ill will or motive to what you said.   Heck, I was in confusion over it all.

 

2 hours ago, IceCap said:

So am I. I'm tired of people being called out for being "PC POLICE!!"/virtue signallers/being "SJWs"/cultural warriors just because they're bothered by stuff like this and think there's a better way forward. 

 

You don't have to agree with them, but geeze. People like to moan about how "no one stops to listen and have a conversation anymore" before calling someone a "virtue signalling SJW" for suggesting that the cartoon Native logo just might be racist. 

 

It cuts both ways here. 

 

I said both sides.   I avoid all the terms you just used because if you say them, people are generally going to assume you're on the other side.   I'm not.

 

But it looks like the bullying has stopped.   Good.   And the thread has gone back to normal.   Wonderful.   I wasn't sure it would still be open when I woke up, but vegetation has grown from the volcanic ash.   Nice.

 

6 hours ago, McCall said:

How many people actually knew that? I'm a pretty die-hard baseball fan and even I would've had to look that up if someone had asked me before this thread. The vast majority of fans are not gonna know or probably even care considering it was 1899.

 

4 hours ago, Digby said:

I'd never have heard of the Spiders if not for this board. Not exactly the Brooklyn Dodgers we're talking about here. In that sense it feels like the the terrible record shouldn't be disqualifying, but on the same token, the supposed ~history~ of the name shouldn't be an automatic shoo-in, either.

 

Honestly, the only reason I know of the existence of the Cleveland Spiders is because a book series I accumulated three volumes of over a year in various used book stores called "The Baseball Hall of Shame".   Also where I learned of Reggie dogging it in the outfield, Ruth chasing a guy into the stands, and the Doubleday Myth.

 

[Gothamite]

I had those books.  Endless bizarre and obscure trivia.  They were the Internet before the Internet. 

[DG_ThenNowForever]

7 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

I had those books.  Endless bizarre and obscure trivia.  They were the Internet before the Internet. 

 

I miss that style of illustration. It was all over everything in the 70s/80s.

[Silent Wind of Doom]

They're really quite good.   I'd suggest anyone seek them out.   Apparently there's more than those three, but those are the only ones I've seen.

 

But given that that's the only time I've heard of the Spiders, I don't think their infamy is a huge deal.   They're not the '62 Mets or the 0 wins Bucs, Lions, Browns, and likely soon Jets.   Those memories are still recent and called to mind.   Someone said nobody remembers those Bucs, but I don't think that's true.   Since the season structure and league is so similar and therefore comparable to today (not to mention being in the time of color TV), they get brought up by broadcasts and sports shows a lot.   Sadly, it's probably the reason Bucco Bruce will never return in any form besides a one-game throwback.   The logo and the creamcicles are too synonymous with failure in the eyes of the franchise.