2010 MLB Season Thread

[infrared41]

I cringed a bit when the film drew the conclusion that Barry started juicing because he was jealous of McGwire and Sosa - I felt that that was a stretch.

According to the guys who wrote "Game of Shadows" that's precisely why Bonds started juicing.

[NJTank]

I cringed a bit when the film drew the conclusion that Barry started juicing because he was jealous of McGwire and Sosa - I felt that that was a stretch.

According to the guys who wrote "Game of Shadows" that's precisely why Bonds started juicing.

If that is the truth and I actually believe it is. Bonds should have just come clean and said it years ago.

[infrared41]

I cringed a bit when the film drew the conclusion that Barry started juicing because he was jealous of McGwire and Sosa - I felt that that was a stretch.

According to the guys who wrote "Game of Shadows" that's precisely why Bonds started juicing.

If that is the truth and I actually believe it is. Bonds should have just come clean and said it years ago.

What Bonds should have done is stayed clean, kept playing at the level he was playing, and gone down in history as the best player ever. Imagine his legacy today if he had stayed clean. Griffey was great. Bonds was better. Now, Griffey will be the guy everyone points to as the best "clean" player of his era. Bonds is a punchline.

And those who still have their heads in the sand please spare me the "we have no proof he juiced" argument...

[mania]

Infa, I think Frank Thomas should be right there in that conversation.

[TheOldRoman]

Bonds was great in LF, but Griffey was the best CF of his generation. They were more or less equal offensively in their primes (or what should have been Bonds' prime). Keep in mind that Bonds most likely doesn't play as long as he did without a little "help" to get him through the day.

[infrared41]

Infa, I think Frank Thomas should be right there in that conversation.

If you mean in the "clean" players conversation then I agree. At least as a hitter he should be.

[infrared41]

Bonds was great in LF, but Griffey was the best CF of his generation. They were more or less equal offensively in their primes (or what should have been Bonds' prime). Keep in mind that Bonds most likely doesn't play as long as he did without a little "help" to get him through the day.

That's fair but the point remains; thanks to the fact that he used some "help", Bonds really isn't even in the discussion now.

[Breakwood]

Not that anyone outside of Toronto (and where ever other blue jays fans live) will care, but it's Cito Gastons final home game as Blue Jays manager tonight. He may not be the best manager in baseball but for the Jays he provided something we've never had; a champion. He seems to have lost it this year, playing our starters with out giving the young guys solid playing time, but he still deserves recognition for winning two championships.

[NEW.ERA]

Not that anyone outside of Toronto (and where ever other blue jays fans live) will care, but it's Cito Gastons final home game as Blue Jays manager tonight. He may not be the best manager in baseball but for the Jays he provided something we've never had; a champion. He seems to have lost it this year, playing our starters with out giving the young guys solid playing time, but he still deserves recognition for winning two championships.

No I fully agree.

It would be nice to see a few of the players from the 92 & 93 teams come out and give him a nice sendoff.

[gingerbreadmann]

I cringed a bit when the film drew the conclusion that Barry started juicing because he was jealous of McGwire and Sosa - I felt that that was a stretch.

According to the guys who wrote "Game of Shadows" that's precisely why Bonds started juicing.

I stand corrected. I thought it was 1997 or 1998 when he showed up to Spring Training all big and huge, but apparently, it was '99. And having Game of Shadows backing it up is pretty solid. I just think it's a little hard to simplify a man's motivations so drastically.

[Jigga]

I cringed a bit when the film drew the conclusion that Barry started juicing because he was jealous of McGwire and Sosa - I felt that that was a stretch.

According to the guys who wrote "Game of Shadows" that's precisely why Bonds started juicing.

I stand corrected. I thought it was 1997 or 1998 when he showed up to Spring Training all big and huge, but apparently, it was '99. And having Game of Shadows backing it up is pretty solid. I just think it's a little hard to simplify a man's motivations so drastically.

Everything in "Game of Shadows" has been accepted as irrefutable fact by the baseball intelligentsia. You dare not question it's findings!

[JayJaxon]

I cringed a bit when the film drew the conclusion that Barry started juicing because he was jealous of McGwire and Sosa - I felt that that was a stretch.

According to the guys who wrote "Game of Shadows" that's precisely why Bonds started juicing.

I stand corrected. I thought it was 1997 or 1998 when he showed up to Spring Training all big and huge, but apparently, it was '99. And having Game of Shadows backing it up is pretty solid. I just think it's a little hard to simplify a man's motivations so drastically.

Everything in "Game of Shadows" has been accepted as irrefutable fact by the baseball intelligentsia. You dare not question it's findings!

Show of hands for those that actually read Game of Shadows cover to cover. It is a very interesting read and it would give a lot of you an even deeper look at Barry Bonds and his personality.

[See Red]

I cringed a bit when the film drew the conclusion that Barry started juicing because he was jealous of McGwire and Sosa - I felt that that was a stretch.

According to the guys who wrote "Game of Shadows" that's precisely why Bonds started juicing.

If that is the truth and I actually believe it is. Bonds should have just come clean and said it years ago.

What Bonds should have done is stayed clean, kept playing at the level he was playing, and gone down in history as the best player ever. Imagine his legacy today if he had stayed clean. Griffey was great. Bonds was better. Now, Griffey will be the guy everyone points to as the best "clean" player of his era. Bonds is a punchline.

And those who still have their heads in the sand please spare me the "we have no proof he juiced" argument...

You're absolutely right, Infra. That's what gets lost in all of this... Bonds was well on his way to being one of the greatest to ever play the game. A lot of people don't realize that Bonds was a better player than Griffey throughout the 90's. Griffey had that sweet swing, but Bonds was better. Unfortunately you can't point to a single year in which he started using steroids, but I'd wager he had a first ball hall of fame resumé by that point.

[infrared41]

I cringed a bit when the film drew the conclusion that Barry started juicing because he was jealous of McGwire and Sosa - I felt that that was a stretch.

According to the guys who wrote "Game of Shadows" that's precisely why Bonds started juicing.

If that is the truth and I actually believe it is. Bonds should have just come clean and said it years ago.

What Bonds should have done is stayed clean, kept playing at the level he was playing, and gone down in history as the best player ever. Imagine his legacy today if he had stayed clean. Griffey was great. Bonds was better. Now, Griffey will be the guy everyone points to as the best "clean" player of his era. Bonds is a punchline.

And those who still have their heads in the sand please spare me the "we have no proof he juiced" argument...

You're absolutely right, Infra. That's what gets lost in all of this... Bonds was well on his way to being one of the greatest to ever play the game. A lot of people don't realize that Bonds was a better player than Griffey throughout the 90's. Griffey had that sweet swing, but Bonds was better. Unfortunately you can't point to a single year in which he started using steroids, but I'd wager he had a first ball hall of fame resumé by that point.

According to the overwhelming circumstantial evidence, Bonds started juicing after the 98 season. In my book he was already a hall of famer at that point in his career. But here's the really interesting thing about Barry's career. Other than the 2001 season when he hit 73 HRs, there weren't any glaring statistical anomalies in the seasons after '98.

Playing devil's advocate for a moment, the argument could be made that other than probably increasing his longevity, the juicing didn't seem to produce significantly better results than Bonds was capable of without steroids. His power numbers were certainly better overall but they weren't that much better. If you ask me, it sure looks like the guy trashed his legacy for what, 50 to 60 extra home runs over the course of his career?

All that aside, if I had a vote Barry Bonds would be a first ballot hall of famer. Whatever he did after the '98 season can't take away from what he did the first 12 years of his career. And for those first 12 years the guy was supernatural.

[mania]

If you asked me, point blank, who the greatest offensive player of all time was, I think Bonds would have to be in that discussion.

But then again, largely, I don't give a about steroids. It's hilarious when someone has made so many comments and they come back to bite them on their ass, but I just don't care in general. Probably 80% of baseball was on something.

[Still MIGHTY]

To get back to modern baseball...

For these final four days of the season, I'm gonna go full force with the bandwagon for my favorite NL team, the San Diego Padres. The Padres sit 2 games behind the Giants in the NL West and 1.5 games behind the Braves in the Wild Card. And here's a breakdown of these all important series over the weekend:

Thursday:

Padres vs Cubs

Giants vs Diamondbacks

Friday-Sunday:

Braves vs Phillies

Padres @ Giants

Should the Padres win tomorrow like they are supposed to, they will sit 1 game behind Atlanta. And to be perfectly honest, it's the Phillies that will determine how this weekend goes. If they decide to rest up and put out lesser lineups against the Braves, that could eliminate the Padres out of the Wild Card and make them focus on the division.

For the Padres to take the West, they are most likely going to have to sweep this series in San Francisco. If the Padres win tomorrow, and the Giants lose, then the Padres will only need to take 2 of 3 to force a one-game playoff.

For the Padres to take the Wild Card (assuming a win tomorrow), the Padres will have to have the Braves only win 1/3 against the Phillies and the Padres go 2/3. If the Braves were to take 2/3, the Padres would have to sweep the Giants which would have them winning the division anyways. A Padres sweep of the Giants would force SF either out of the playoffs completely with the Braves going 2/3 or 3/3, or force a one-game playoff if the Braves go 1/3, or the Giants would take the WC if Atlanta shat the bed and got swept. If the Braves did get swept, the Padres only need 1/3 to force a playoff.

This is going to be one of the more exciting final weekends of baseball in a long while. There are the 3 teams for 2 spots in the NL, the Yanks/Rays fighting to the bitter end for the AL East, and lots of position jockeying still to go. This is going to be exciting.

And GO PADRES!

[BBTV]

Sorry, Padres fans, but the Phils are not pitching Halladay, and will likely only give their regulars limited at bats. Polanco is using this break to get another cortisone shot, so he probably won't play at all. Kyle Kendrick is pitching on Friday, not sure who's going on Saturday or Sunday, but Oswalt probably won't throw, and neither will Fat Joe Blanton. Cole Hamels might go on Sunday, but only for a couple of innings.

The Phillies appear to be shuffling their rotation a bit for the playoffs, as it looks more and more like Roy Oswalt is going to be the #2 behind Halladay, with Hamels being #3.

[NJTank]

The Braves getting in the playoffs might suck, because I dont know they can put up a good series with all their injuries.

[Yac12]

Not that anyone outside of Toronto (and where ever other blue jays fans live) will care, but it's Cito Gastons final home game as Blue Jays manager tonight. He may not be the best manager in baseball but for the Jays he provided something we've never had; a champion. He seems to have lost it this year, playing our starters with out giving the young guys solid playing time, but he still deserves recognition for winning two championships.

No I fully agree.

It would be nice to see a few of the players from the 92 & 93 teams come out and give him a nice sendoff.

I wish the Blue Jays would have worn the home uniforms from the World Series seasons for Cito's last home game.

[BaltimoreFan]

I cringed a bit when the film drew the conclusion that Barry started juicing because he was jealous of McGwire and Sosa - I felt that that was a stretch.

According to the guys who wrote "Game of Shadows" that's precisely why Bonds started juicing.

If that is the truth and I actually believe it is. Bonds should have just come clean and said it years ago.

What Bonds should have done is stayed clean, kept playing at the level he was playing, and gone down in history as the best player ever. Imagine his legacy today if he had stayed clean. Griffey was great. Bonds was better. Now, Griffey will be the guy everyone points to as the best "clean" player of his era. Bonds is a punchline.

And those who still have their heads in the sand please spare me the "we have no proof he juiced" argument...

You're absolutely right, Infra. That's what gets lost in all of this... Bonds was well on his way to being one of the greatest to ever play the game. A lot of people don't realize that Bonds was a better player than Griffey throughout the 90's. Griffey had that sweet swing, but Bonds was better. Unfortunately you can't point to a single year in which he started using steroids, but I'd wager he had a first ball hall of fame resumé by that point.

According to the overwhelming circumstantial evidence, Bonds started juicing after the 98 season. In my book he was already a hall of famer at that point in his career. But here's the really interesting thing about Barry's career. Other than the 2001 season when he hit 73 HRs, there weren't any glaring statistical anomalies in the seasons after '98.

Playing devil's advocate for a moment, the argument could be made that other than probably increasing his longevity, the juicing didn't seem to produce significantly better results than Bonds was capable of without steroids. His power numbers were certainly better overall but they weren't that much better. If you ask me, it sure looks like the guy trashed his legacy for what, 50 to 60 extra home runs over the course of his career?

All that aside, if I had a vote Barry Bonds would be a first ballot hall of famer. Whatever he did after the '98 season can't take away from what he did the first 12 years of his career. And for those first 12 years the guy was supernatural.

If you can find pictures of Barry Bonds from season to season, it should be hard to figure out when he started juicing. I remember watching a "This Day in Baseball" video on MLB.com about 5 years or so ago. There was video of Barry Bonds from 1998 (I think) and I was shocked at how different he looked. He was a stick compared to the superhuman he was at that time. That was when I was certain he was on some kind of 'riods.

I get what you saying about the statistical anamolies, but a friend of mine was telling me something about Bond's homerun distances. Apprantely before 1999 or so, Bonds hit very few homeruns over 420 feet, but after he hit something like 50 over that distance. Now I'm just guessing on those numbers and I don't have the article in front of me. But that would be one thing to look at when it comes to Bonds. At the very least steroids extended Bonds' career and took him from a mid 500 HR guy to the homerun king.

I really don't understand Bonds did it. He already had a HOF career and he may have been looked at as a hero. Instead he probably threw all that away. I'm not sure if I feel he belongs in the HOF or not. Like I've said I'd rather wait 20 years after baseball is clean to get a real context of how the steroid era fits into baseball history. To be honest, I still don't think the game is completely clean.