NHL 2011-2012: Possible Uniform Changes

[steve61]

I love the 35 style leaf, and would like to see it used full time. That being said, I know it's not going to happen. MLSE seems content to stick with the Ballard leaf. Given that the current home/road set is very, very good. I'm happy with it.

The thing that really bothers me with the old, 35 point leaf is how it looks like it's bent forward right underneath "Leafs".

Or am I the only one who sees this illusion?

The thing that really bothers me about it is that it only slightly resembles the shape of an actual maple leaf. Veins aside, it's always just seemed a bit too rectangular to me. I think that the current stylized Ballard version still manages to look more like the real deal.

The team Canada alternate manages to combine the realism of the 35 point leaf with a much more accurate shape IMHO....

exactly.

[Eye]

[logos]

That's all of the five-pointed stars in the big four leagues. There IS a lot. Quite a few of them, like the Phillies, are completely unnecessary, and therefore have a patriotic sense.

I think what it comes down to, is if you changed all of those stars to maple leaves, would this conversation still be going on?

I never got the vibe that the Phillies are patriotic in any way.

[The_Admiral]

Red/white/blue with a star and the Liberty Bell. It's more Philadelphian, which is intrinsically patriotic in a sense, than patriotic per se. Same with the 76ers.

[charger77]

[logos]

That's all of the five-pointed stars in the big four leagues. There IS a lot. Quite a few of them, like the Phillies, are completely unnecessary, and therefore have a patriotic sense.

I think what it comes down to, is if you changed all of those stars to maple leaves, would this conversation still be going on?

I never got the vibe that the Phillies are patriotic in any way.

When they use images like these its hard not to:

[The_Admiral]

Right, but it's still very much about Philadelphia and its role in U.S. history. It's not just a general "yay, America" or "yay, Canada" identity.

[Lee.]

Yes but maybe TNSE feels the need to incorporate the leaf to differentiate themselves from Winnipeg, MO.

[oddball]

Two things. Just because someone uses a star does not mean it's patriotic or they are from the United States, it's a design element. You could say the same thing about the Maple Leaf. Secondly, Philadelphia should be patriotic as it was an important city in many of this country's key founding moments and even was the capital of the country for ten years. Heck, when I think of cities that symbolize patriotism and what this country was founded on, I think of Boston and Philadelphia first and foremost and no other cities are in the running. I don't even consider D.C. to be a patriotic city as it is a government created city and never had a thing to do with the freedom of this country.

[Dedalvs]

I never thought much about it, but those stars seem entirely out of place in the Titans' logo. They don't really have much to do with titans, and seem like an afterthought (maybe they thought the dark blue field was too plain...?). If anything, they may be there as a symbolic nod to the team's roots in Texas?even though the Oilers logo didn't have any stars. O.o

[IceCap]

if people are going to get up in arms over the jets using a maple leaf because there is already a team called the maple leafs, why does columbus get a free pass to use a star as their logo?

A million teams in the US use a star in their logo. A star is incredibly generic. It's not the same thing as using a maple leaf. Personally I find it annoying when any team in Canada feels the need to add a maple leaf to their logo. It's like they're reminding us that Canada has no culture other than beer and hockey.

Reading is fun and informative!

Reaction to the Jets logo is pretty funny, we've heard it's round, blue with a two toned silver jet, and has a maple leaf and everyone is saying it's the best thing ever. lol, let's see it first. I agree with one of the above posters about feeling disappointment over the fact they're relying on the maple leaf design element crutch. It's becoming as played out as the Texas state flag and lone star motif is done in Texas. An air force inspired look would be awesome though. The Air Force ice hockey team and the Houston Aeros have shown that some pretty good looks can be pulled off with that theme.

Well if they're going the Air Force route they kind of have to use a maple leaf since, you know...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Roundel_of_the_Royal_Canadian_Air_Force_%281946-1965%29.svg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:RCAF-Roundel.svg

I mean if you want to see them go the air force route it kind of has to reflect the Canadian air force, no?

Again, how is the maple leaf motif overplayed in the NHL? Toronto has it. It's relegated to the back of Ottawa's helmets (a logo that, according to the team, isn't even official). Calgary's use of the flag is stupid for reasons unrelated to the maple leaf as a design element. Montreal, Vancouver, and Edmonton don't use it. So where is this "they're overusing the leaf" sentiment coming from?

Yes, McDonalds Canada uses a maple leaf on the golden arches, and yes it's stupid. How that effects the NHL is beyond me, however.

Yeah my post doesn't read at all like I meant when I re-read it. lol

What I'm trying to say is I think the air force theme could work really well. My (separate) point about the maple leaf being it seems to be lazily slapped into a lot of logo packages...

Well if the Jets go with a RCAF/CFAC theme then the maple leaf wouldn't be lazily slapped on, would it? The maple leaf is the central emblem on the RCAF/CFAC roundel. From all reports the Jets' new logo is a homage to the RCAF/CFAC roundel, so the leaf works. You say the Blue Jackets get a pass on using a star because the flag of Ohio features stars prominently. Well the emblems of Canada's air force feature a maple leaf prominently. Consistency, man. Consistency.

...not exclusive to the NHL but across all levels of hockey. A contingent of fans do lap it up though so I guess you can't fault someone for playing to the crowd.

First of all, NHL teams and teams in the minors do not play each other. From a design standpoint each league exists within its own vacuum. Who cares if the leaf is overused in the minors? It's not in the NHL, and further the Jets' use of the leaf would entirely be justified if the logo homages the emblems of Canada's air force.

Secondly, is the leaf overused in other levels of hockey? Turns out it isn't.

The AHL has four Canadian teams. Hamilton, Toronto, St. John's, and Abbotsford. Toronto uses the leaf (two actually), but then again they're the farm team of the Toronto Maple Leafs, so can you blame them? Hamilton doesn't use the leaf at all, St. John's hasn't unveiled their identity yet, and like their parent club Calgary, Abbotsford's use of the Canadian flag doesn't integrate the flag into the team's identity, it's stupid for unrelated reasons. So only 1 of 4 AHL Canadian teams use the leaf, and their parent club is the Maple Leafs.

The ECHL doesn't have any Canadian teams.

The C(entral)HL doesn't have any Canadian teams.

The LNAH has 7 Canadian teams. Not a single one uses the maple leaf as a design element.

The OHL has 18 Canadian teams. Not a single one uses the maple leaf as a design element.

The QMJHL has 17 Canadian teams. Not a single one uses the maple leaf as a design element.

The WHL has 17 Canadian teams. Two use the leaf. Vancouver and Victoria. Victoria could be given a pass, given their patriotic name, but we'll include them anyway.

So across the primary minor leagues there are 63 Canadian franchises. 3 of them use the maple leaf as a design element. 4.76% of minor league Canadian hockey organizations use the leaf. Even across "all levels of hockey" use of the "design crutch" that is the Canadian maple leaf is rare. Even if the St. John's AHL franchise does use a leaf, it wouldn't raise that percentage substantially. So I ask you again, where is this "the maple leaf is overused" sentiment coming from?

As an experiment I counted all the American teams across these leagues, noting the ones that made use of patriotic American imagery.

The AHL has 26 American teams. 2 make use of American imagery as a design element. Houston and Rochester. Houston's is understandable, as like the new Jets, they're going with an air force theme.

The ECHL has 20 American teams. 1 makes use of American imagery as a design element.

The C(entral)HL has 17 American teams. 1 makes use of American imagery as a design element.

The LNAH doesn't have any American teams.

The OHL has 2 American teams. 1 makes use of American imagery as a design element.

The QMJHL doesn't have any American teams.

The WHL has 5 American teams. 1 makes use of American imagery as a design element. Like Abbotsford we won't count Spokane's use of a flag.

So across the primary minor leagues there are 70 American franchises. 6 of them use American imagery as a design element. 8.57% of minor league American hockey organizations use American imagery. As it turns out American imagery is more of a design crutch then the Canadian maple leaf.

What does this all mean? The "the maple leaf is a design crutch" complaint has lost all validity, at least until that 4.76% comes up a bit

The notion that a large number of Canadian hockey teams use the leaf as a design crutch is unfounded.

[TruColor]

I never thought much about it, but those stars seem entirely out of place in the Titans' logo. They don't really have much to do with titans, and seem like an afterthought (maybe they thought the dark blue field was too plain...?). If anything, they may be there as a symbolic nod to the team's roots in Texas?even though the Oilers logo didn't have any stars. O.o

Presenting...the Tennessee state flag:

[Dedalvs]

I never thought much about it, but those stars seem entirely out of place in the Titans' logo. They don't really have much to do with titans, and seem like an afterthought (maybe they thought the dark blue field was too plain...?). If anything, they may be there as a symbolic nod to the team's roots in Texas?even though the Oilers logo didn't have any stars. O.o

Presenting...the Tennessee state flag:

lol And that answers that. Thanks!

[The_Admiral]

I don't even consider D.C. to be a patriotic city as it is a government created city and never had a thing to do with the freedom of this country.

Is this one for Oddball's Greatest (s)Hits or what.

[Kevin W.]

nvm

[twi]

whoa, definitely didn't intend to set off another Canada vs US debate. Sorry fellas.

Stars in logos can have about 1001 different meanings, I don't think it's necessarily an uber patriotic thing.

On an unrelated topic, the jerseys worn by players at the Lightning prospect camp still feature the old logo. All the gloves, helmets, pant shells, etc are still from the black, silver, and blue set. I was wondering if this would be the first on ice look at the new stuff but it appears that won't come until training camp.

[IceCap]

whoa, definitely didn't intend to set off another Canada vs US debate. Sorry fellas.

Stars in logos can have about 1001 different meanings, I don't think it's necessarily an uber patriotic thing.

It's not a Canada vs US thing. It's just the fact that the Canadian maple leaf isn't the design crutch some make it out to be *shrug*

[Corvus]

What do people think of Nashville's Pre-Edge look? I know it's not as good as the new look but compared to the sheer awfulness of the Edge jerseys, I thought it was acceptable. Almost admirable in it's uniqueness.

I liked the navy jersey / shiny silver sleeve / yellow trim look a lot, save for the logo. I simply can't get passed it.

I liked their look and didn't mind the logo. I hated the mustard thirds though.

[Bayne]

From an aesthetic standpoint (disregarding history of each logo)

and

look SO much better than

and

or

and

I don't understand why they don't use the 35 (if I remember right?) point style!

The first pair is too much of a literal representation of the shape of a maple leaf for me. The second pair looks a little retarded (sorry for the non-PC term, but it does). My favourtie it what they have now. It's a simple, clean, sharp logo that still represents the iconic leaf shape. I think its the best of the lot. Sure, use the 50-point leaf logo for some throwback jerseys, but I wouldn't want to see it back as the primary logo for them.

[Kevin W.]

What's the significance of the 35 points?

[The_Admiral]

I think this would be the best of both worlds (or at least two of them) for the Leafs: a classic veined 35-point leaf with the super-cool 1967 lettering.

[Morgan33]

I think this would be the best of both worlds (or at least two of them) for the Leafs: a classic veined 35-point leaf with the super-cool 1967 lettering.

No... just no