2011 MLB Season Thread

[The_Admiral]

Ernie Johnson doesn't call a good game anyway. Sucks about his kid, though.

Last note on the Kenny Williams thing: I'm not a believer in him, but it's a pretty nice move to fire your manager and still demand compensation.

[TheOldRoman]

Sure, the Rios, Dunn and Peavy moves have been failures to this point. However, Rios is the only one which was a real risk. Dunn had consistently hit close to 40 homers with 100 RBI every season since 2004. NOBODY thought he would be as bad as he was this year. How could you the GM be held accountable for him being so terrible? As I said about Peavy, he had a broken ankle. Those happen a lot, and generally heal with no ill affects. They traded for him knowing 2009 was out the window. He was pitching extremely well for the month or two before his horrific injury last year, and although he is completely healthy at this point, it will take him a while to regain strength. He had a prounced wall which he hit around the 75 pitch mark this year, and yet Ozzie kept leaving him in to get out jams in the 6th inning. Regardless, he is fully recovered from an unprecedented surgery, and should be back stronger and closer to the old Peavy next year. Rios was the biggest risk, but most of the reason Toronto ran him out of town was because they couldn't keep his contract and the horrible contract of Vernon Wells. Rios make a lot of money, but for an excellent defensive CF (which he was before this season), who can give you what he can with the bat, $12 mil isn't Zito-esque. His 2008 was down slightly from 2007, and his 2009 with TOR wasn't nearly as bad as people have made it in retrospect. Rios was an extremely talented player in his supposed prime when the Sox got him, so it was a risk he would rebound. He did last year, but not so much this year.

Still, any Sox fan would have killed for 2009 Rios this year. Rios' batting average this year was 20 points below his previous career low (after raising it about .20 in recent weeks) and his OPS is .78 below his previous career low. Dunn's batting average was 55 points below his previous career low and his OPS was .246 below his previous career low. Williams didn't need them to come in and have career years. He needed average years from them, but even if each guy reproduced his previous career low, the Sox would have been in a dead heat with the Tigers at the time when the wheels fell off a few weeks back and players stopped caring.

[Brass]

What was that about being as good as the '27 Yankees again?

Additionally, what was that about the Red Sox' rotation being better than the Phillies' rotation? Boston homers have been whining about pitching for the past month.

The Boston media really is a bunch of Joe Cowleys, Skip Baylesses (Baylii?), and on Bleacher Report, Tommys from Quinzee. The only Boston-area writer I can actually read is Borges. Does his feud with Belichick cross into blatant trolling? Absolutely, 99% of the time. But at least every word of every article he writes isn't dripping with obnoxious, overdramatic, near-histrionic praise and homerism. I mean, seriously. "Better than the '27 Yankees"? Come on.

All you did in one post was confirm the fact that you didn't even read an article that's supposed to be the major backing point of your argument. Not one place in that article does it say that the Red Sox rotation is better than the Phillie's rotation, as you're claiming. All it says is that the Red Sox could be as good as Philadelphia's. Hell, it even comes out and says, "There just are more ifs attached to Boston's success."

Please. If you're going to cite something to back your argument, at least have it be relevant.

[Dexter Morgan]

Sure, the Rios, Dunn and Peavy moves have been failures to this point. However, Rios is the only one which was a real risk. Dunn had consistently hit close to 40 homers with 100 RBI every season since 2004. NOBODY thought he would be as bad as he was this year. How could you the GM be held accountable for him being so terrible? As I said about Peavy, he had a broken ankle. Those happen a lot, and generally heal with no ill affects. They traded for him knowing 2009 was out the window. He was pitching extremely well for the month or two before his horrific injury last year, and although he is completely healthy at this point, it will take him a while to regain strength. He had a prounced wall which he hit around the 75 pitch mark this year, and yet Ozzie kept leaving him in to get out jams in the 6th inning. Regardless, he is fully recovered from an unprecedented surgery, and should be back stronger and closer to the old Peavy next year. Rios was the biggest risk, but most of the reason Toronto ran him out of town was because they couldn't keep his contract and the horrible contract of Vernon Wells. Rios make a lot of money, but for an excellent defensive CF (which he was before this season), who can give you what he can with the bat, $12 mil isn't Zito-esque. His 2008 was down slightly from 2007, and his 2009 with TOR wasn't nearly as bad as people have made it in retrospect. Rios was an extremely talented player in his supposed prime when the Sox got him, so it was a risk he would rebound. He did last year, but not so much this year.

Still, any Sox fan would have killed for 2009 Rios this year. Rios' batting average this year was 20 points below his previous career low (after raising it about .20 in recent weeks) and his OPS is .78 below his previous career low. Dunn's batting average was 55 points below his previous career low and his OPS was .246 below his previous career low. Williams didn't need them to come in and have career years. He needed average years from them, but even if each guy reproduced his previous career low, the Sox would have been in a dead heat with the Tigers at the time when the wheels fell off a few weeks back and players stopped caring.

Not a major move, but the Brian Cashman hosed Williams for Swisher.

[TheOldRoman]

Sure, Swisher has worked on with NY, but he is a colossal douche and had problems with everyone in the clubhouse in Chicago. He had a horrendous season and was due a decent amount of money the next few years. Not too many teams would have spent the money on him at the time, so the Sox were looking to dump him no matter the package. Of course, someone in the organization was mistaken when he reported to Williams that Wilson Betemit could be an everyday third baseman. A bigger problem was that he gave up too much to get Swisher in the first place. Still, as much as some Sox fans rip Williams and the Swisher trades, "genius" Billy Beane traded Andre Eithier for Milton Bradley and then traded Carlos Gonzalez for Matt Holliday in a year where the team wasn't expected to compete. I don't know if the sum of Williams' worst trades are as bad as either of those. Of course, Williams was portrayed as a buffoon in Moneyball for giving up the great Chad Bradford, but three years later Williams was winning a world series while Beane was looking for prospects whom, if everything went right, he would be able to trade for other prospects.

Oh, and Williams hosed Cashman far, far worse in the Loaiza for Contreras trade.

[The_Admiral]

I've noticed that Sox fans have a bigger problem with the Billy Beane Oakland A's than actual rival fanbases do. Is this just me?

[TrueYankee26]

Red Sox have to depend on Bedard, plus the Yankees (who have been sending the Z lineup) to stay afloat. Yikes.

[Fox]

What everyone in this thread is confusing a headline of a stupid Boston newspaper with the opinion of all Red Sox fans. While there was a newspaper with the headline that read, "Best Team Ever" I can guarantee that this was not what Red Sox fans expected. I, along with most other fans, going into the season expected the Red Sox to be the team to beat in the American League, which we were wrong about. However the whole thing about the best team ever has been blown way out of proportion.

[Dexter Morgan]

Sure, Swisher has worked on with NY, but he is a colossal douche and had problems with everyone in the clubhouse in Chicago. He had a horrendous season and was due a decent amount of money the next few years. Not too many teams would have spent the money on him at the time, so the Sox were looking to dump him no matter the package. Of course, someone in the organization was mistaken when he reported to Williams that Wilson Betemit could be an everyday third baseman. A bigger problem was that he gave up too much to get Swisher in the first place. Still, as much as some Sox fans rip Williams and the Swisher trades, "genius" Billy Beane traded Andre Eithier for Milton Bradley and then traded Carlos Gonzalez for Matt Holliday in a year where the team wasn't expected to compete. I don't know if the sum of Williams' worst trades are as bad as either of those. Of course, Williams was portrayed as a buffoon in Moneyball for giving up the great Chad Bradford, but three years later Williams was winning a world series while Beane was looking for prospects whom, if everything went right, he would be able to trade for other prospects.

Oh, and Williams hosed Cashman far, far worse in the Loaiza for Contreras trade.

It's funny, only White Sox fans think Swisher is a douche-bag. A's fans loved him, Yankee fans adore him. Maybe the real douche-bag was the manager you just sent packing...

[Dexter Morgan]

Double post.

[mania]

It's funny, only White Sox fans think Swisher is a douche-bag. A's fans loved him, Yankee fans adore him. Maybe the real douche-bag was the manager you just sent packing...

Trust me, there are plenty of baseball fans who aren't White Sox fans yet still consider Swisher to be a dickwad of the highest degree.

[TheOldRoman]

It's funny, only White Sox fans think Swisher is a douche-bag. A's fans loved him, Yankee fans adore him. Maybe the real douche-bag was the manager you just sent packing...

Trust me, there are plenty of baseball fans who aren't White Sox fans yet still consider Swisher to be a dickwad of the highest degree.

Yeah, his "party party cool guy" routine is fun at first, then you realize how much of a tool he is. He had a horrible season, then pouted and bitched when he got benched. He was "fun" when he was performing well (and even then several players thought he needed to tone it down), but when he started sucking, he acted like a brat and kept a toxic attitude. I have said for a long time that the White Sox have a bad atmosphere in the clubhouse, but Swisher was pretty much universally hated. He has kept his mouth shut with the Yankees because he knows that the same crap won't fly there as in Oakland. Too many larger than life players making $20 million a year in NY.

[TheOldRoman]

I've noticed that Sox fans have a bigger problem with the Billy Beane Oakland A's than actual rival fanbases do. Is this just me?

There are several factors to it 1) Moneyball portraying Williams as a buffoon, 2) the A's owning the Sox from 2001-2006, and 3) a legion of Beane-blowing stathead trolls which decended upon all White Sox message boards circa 2002, making them unbearable. So yes, we probably have more hatred for the A's than we should.

[Sodboy13]

Plus Hawk says Billy Beane is bad, and if anyone would know anything about being a bad General Manager, you bet your batting gloves it's Hawk Harrelson.

[FiddySicks]

It's funny, only White Sox fans think Swisher is a douche-bag. A's fans loved him, Yankee fans adore him. Maybe the real douche-bag was the manager you just sent packing...

Trust me, there are plenty of baseball fans who aren't White Sox fans yet still consider Swisher to be a dickwad of the highest degree.

Yeah, his "party party cool guy" routine is fun at first, then you realize how much of a tool he is. He had a horrible season, then pouted and bitched when he got benched. He was "fun" when he was performing well (and even then several players thought he needed to tone it down), but when he started sucking, he acted like a brat and kept a toxic attitude. I have said for a long time that the White Sox have a bad atmosphere in the clubhouse, but Swisher was pretty much universally hated. He has kept his mouth shut with the Yankees because he knows that the same crap won't fly there as in Oakland. Too many larger than life players making $20 million a year in NY.

Yeah I'm calling BS on this. Swisher, like I've stated previously, has a cocky attitude but it's so freaking innocent compaired to real douche bags like Alex Rodriguez or Milton Bradley. If you think he was so much of a cancer in the clubhouse that it dragged the whole team down you're delusional. From what I've seen, it was more the White Sox clubhouse that dragged Swisher's numbers down and he "pouted and bitched" because he saw just how toxic the environment was in Chicago. He's loved in New York and was equally adored in Oakland. The only thing he's guilty of is acting like a kid and having a funny look on his face most of the time. He's also one of the most personable and humorous people I've ever had the pleasure of working with.

[Gothamite]

So the Rays are in a must win situation at home to end the season... and they're playing to less than 20,000 fans.

Can they just :censored:ing move this team already?

Pretty much par for the course, sadly.

[BBTV]

It's funny, only White Sox fans think Swisher is a douche-bag. A's fans loved him, Yankee fans adore him. Maybe the real douche-bag was the manager you just sent packing...

Trust me, there are plenty of baseball fans who aren't White Sox fans yet still consider Swisher to be a dickwad of the highest degree.

Yeah, his "party party cool guy" routine is fun at first, then you realize how much of a tool he is. He had a horrible season, then pouted and bitched when he got benched. He was "fun" when he was performing well (and even then several players thought he needed to tone it down), but when he started sucking, he acted like a brat and kept a toxic attitude. I have said for a long time that the White Sox have a bad atmosphere in the clubhouse, but Swisher was pretty much universally hated. He has kept his mouth shut with the Yankees because he knows that the same crap won't fly there as in Oakland. Too many larger than life players making $20 million a year in NY.

Yeah I'm calling BS on this. Swisher, like I've stated previously, has a cocky attitude but it's so freaking innocent compaired to real douche bags like Alex Rodriguez or Milton Bradley. If you think he was so much of a cancer in the clubhouse that it dragged the whole team down you're delusional. From what I've seen, it was more the White Sox clubhouse that dragged Swisher's numbers down and he "pouted and bitched" because he saw just how toxic the environment was in Chicago. He's loved in New York and was equally adored in Oakland. The only thing he's guilty of is acting like a kid and having a funny look on his face most of the time. He's also one of the most personable and humorous people I've ever had the pleasure of working with.

When the Yankees were in Philadelphia for the World Series in '09, he got heckled relentlessly by the fans in the outfield, and actually won them over (as much as you can, anyway) for the humorous way in which he gave it back to them and had fun with it. By all accounts, he bought Phillies fans beers in the bars and was great to hang out with when he'd go out and get sh t faced during that WS. This is partially second-hand and partially from reading articles, not first hand experience.

[CS85]

As a non-sox fan chicago sports talk radio listener, I'm glad as hell that Ozzie's gone so I don't have to listen to them talk about the Ozzie/Kenny crap next season. Some of the worst radio I've ever heard over this he-said/she-said nonsense.

[TheOldRoman]

I didn't say Swisher was a bag guy or a horrible person, just that he was a douche. I think a big part of his struggles in Chicago was that he was counted on to be a big part of the offense. Oakland was a laid back place, as winning wasn't required. When he went to NY, I believe he started as a fourth outfielder before getting the role fulltime. Either way, they have A-Roid, Teixiera, Jeter and others who are expected to carry the load. No pressure is put on Swisher there.

[FiddySicks]

I didn't say Swisher was a bag guy or a horrible person, just that he was a douche. I think a big part of his struggles in Chicago was that he was counted on to be a big part of the offense. Oakland was a laid back place, as winning wasn't required. When he went to NY, I believe he started as a fourth outfielder before getting the role fulltime. Either way, they have A-Roid, Teixiera, Jeter and others who are expected to carry the load. No pressure is put on Swisher there.

Yeah, because the A's never got to within four games of the World Series while he was there or anything...