2011 NFL Season

[HedleyLamarr]

You know what I hate about fantasy football? Everything.

I loathe fantasy football. It's turned fistpumping, popped-collar douches into armchair NFL analysts. "OMG, Player X's injury is going to ruin my fantasy team, bro!" has become the new "Oh crap, Player X's injury is going to make me lose my parlay for sure, man!"

I think you're being a bit extreme there, Lights Out. Sure, it's great when your fantasy team or teams win. But really most fantasy owners don't take it to that level. At least from the people I play it with, (we treat it as just icing on the cake, on top of our "real" teams winning.) Personally, I think ESPN and other networks cater to it because it's now more normal to engage in fantasy sports than it was ten years, and certainly prior to the internet.

Of course ESPN caters to it because it's popular.

But the fact that they cater to fantasy football, and the resulting way that it has changed sports culture, is all the more reason to loathe it.

About the only difference I've noticed about myself (in relation to fantasy football, that is) is that I watch more football games and have learned more about the tendancies of various offensive coordinators than I ever did pre-fantasy football. Instead of just caring about the Falcons, I now watch more football games and, as a result, have become a smarter, more knowledgable football fan because of it. In that aspect, fantasy football has only been a positive.

Also, now that a lot of folks in my league are spread across the Southeast region, it's something that brings us together for 1/3rd of the year.

I do find it humorous, though, that the same guys that have a raging hard-on for Baseball Sabermetrics also shart on Fantasy Football. Not only is it pretty much the same thing, but it's actually utilizing your knowledge of stats into a competitve manner. It's more worthwhile to actually put your knowledge of stats to use instead of just whipping them out to make arguments on a message board.

[Drakonius26]

About the only difference I've noticed about myself (in relation to fantasy football, that is) is that I watch more football games and have learned more about the tendancies of various offensive coordinators than I ever did pre-fantasy football. Instead of just caring about the Falcons, I now watch more football games and, as a result, have become a smarter, more knowledgable football fan because of it. In that aspect, fantasy football has only been a positive.

Also, now that a lot of folks in my league are spread across the Southeast region, it's something that brings us together for 1/3rd of the year.

I do find it humorous, though, that the same guys that have a raging hard-on for Baseball Sabermetrics also shart on Fantasy Football. Not only is it pretty much the same thing, but it's actually utilizing your knowledge of stats into a competitve manner. It's more worthwhile to actually put your knowledge of stats to use instead of just whipping them out to make arguments on a message board.

Yeah, but fantasy baseball is way different from fantasy football. Beyond the obvious, I've seen a team consisting of Philip Rivers, LaDainian Tomlinson, Brian Westbrook, Reggie Wayne, Roddy White, and Antonio Gates go 4-10 during the regular season. The guy couldn't catch a break and got screwed by everyone having a career week against him. Fantasy Football is a lot more luck-based than skill-based. Sometimes you can get lucky on the waiver wire, but you can't really compare knowing the stats in football to baseball, because of the amount of games, and the formulas used in Moneyball couldn't be applied to football, unless you're focusing on attempts/targets, which once again can screw you because football is less a one-on-one game like baseball is.

Beyond that, to me I consider it a male-bonding experience. You do it with some buddies at work, sometimes give each other crap, but it's the typical 10% that make everyone look bad.

[DCDuck]

I agree, fantasy football has a lot of luck involved, more so than fantasy baseball.

I consistently make the playoffs of my fantasy baseball leagues because I manage to get those unheralded young pitchers in the late rounds. Last season I got Josh Johnson in round 8. The year before I got Zack Greinke in round 10.

In fantasy football, it's a lot more variable. Running backs go in round 1, but with the pounding running backs take in the NFL it's a wonder more of them don't end up on IR every year. You just hope to dodge a bullet. Then there are those silly things about "fantasy numbers" vs. teams playing to win the game. One of my friends is freaking out because he had Tim Hightower on his fantasy team, but Ryan Torain got the lion's share of the carries last week for the Skins and now there appears to be an even three-man running back rotation in Washington. Arian Foster got chippy with twitterites only caring about his fantasy status. A couple years ago Brian Westbrook got inundated with emails about how kneeling before the goal line cost peoples' fantasy teams the 6 points that would have come with the TD. Silly things like that.

I don't read about that sort of thing in fantasy baseball.

[ninersdd]

A fantasy team is a good way to see the trends. For example, Philip Rivers last had the most passing yards, which meant that probably it was because the Chargers were playing down quite a bit. Twice he cracked 430 yards, good for fantasy owners, but in real life, his team lost the games, because they were playing from behind.

[Drakonius26]

That's because it's baseball compared to football. Unless your player essentially sucks the entire year (think Ubaldo Jimenez) you're not going to read about it, or see it, like you can with fantasy football. Which once again, doesn't provide it's players with enough opportunities to make a consistent impact. Now, if the NFL was a 68-game season, then the issues you listed above probably wouldn't mean as much. Besides, I agree with Arian Foster going off on Twitter, because a bunch of fantasy nerds were trying to contact him about how he was feeling, it's not like he's the only runningback out there people.

EDIT: Exactly, niners. You tend to pay attention to teams you might otherwise not with fantasy football, and it's interesting to follow a variety of teams development or regression, but I'm glad people haven't reached the point where Cam Newton is considered a better quarterback than Tom Brady, because he puts up more fantasy points. I mean, I hope the general sports fan would understand that there's a difference between Madden, Fantasy, and you know, the actual NFL.

[HedleyLamarr]

Yeah, but fantasy baseball is way different from fantasy football. Beyond the obvious, I've seen a team consisting of Philip Rivers, LaDainian Tomlinson, Brian Westbrook, Reggie Wayne, Roddy White, and Antonio Gates go 4-10 during the regular season. The guy couldn't catch a break and got screwed by everyone having a career week against him. Fantasy Football is a lot more luck-based than skill-based. Sometimes you can get lucky on the waiver wire, but you can't really compare knowing the stats in football to baseball, because of the amount of games, and the formulas used in Moneyball couldn't be applied to football, unless you're focusing on attempts/targets, which once again can screw you because football is less a one-on-one game like baseball is.

Beyond that, to me I consider it a male-bonding experience. You do it with some buddies at work, sometimes give each other crap, but it's the typical 10% that make everyone look bad.

It's only different because the fantasy baseball season is a relative marathon, whereas football is a 14-game sprint. With baseball, you have a 30-week regular season, so you have plenty of opportunities to take gambles and hope they pan out. With football, your risk-taking either works out really well or kills you.

My fantasy baseball strategy (head-to-head or rotisserie) was simple: load up on position players with my first 15 picks, then grab a couple starting pitchers and maybe one closer at the very end of the draft. Then, I'd pick up starting pitchers that were pitching the next day, and promptly drop them and pick up the next day's starters, etc. I'd dominate on the offensive stats, I'd lead the world in wins and strikeouts, and didn't bother wasting roster spots for closers since they were good for only one scoring stat category.

There's definitely skill involved in Fantasy Football (at least, on par with baseball in the luck-skill levels). You look at offensive tendancies, you look at schedules, and you look at offensive/defensive schemes.

[ninersdd]

Saw earlier that the Dolphins are thinking about signing Garrard or Jake Delhomme. Garrard I understand, but are they considering Delhomme for the guarantee of the #1 pick?

Update: Those 2 aren't signing with Miami. They are looking at Trent Edwards and Brodie Croyle now.

[Drakonius26]

Yeah, but fantasy baseball is way different from fantasy football. Beyond the obvious, I've seen a team consisting of Philip Rivers, LaDainian Tomlinson, Brian Westbrook, Reggie Wayne, Roddy White, and Antonio Gates go 4-10 during the regular season. The guy couldn't catch a break and got screwed by everyone having a career week against him. Fantasy Football is a lot more luck-based than skill-based. Sometimes you can get lucky on the waiver wire, but you can't really compare knowing the stats in football to baseball, because of the amount of games, and the formulas used in Moneyball couldn't be applied to football, unless you're focusing on attempts/targets, which once again can screw you because football is less a one-on-one game like baseball is.

Beyond that, to me I consider it a male-bonding experience. You do it with some buddies at work, sometimes give each other crap, but it's the typical 10% that make everyone look bad.

It's only different because the fantasy baseball season is a relative marathon, whereas football is a 14-game sprint. With baseball, you have a 30-week regular season, so you have plenty of opportunities to take gambles and hope they pan out. With football, your risk-taking either works out really well or kills you.

My fantasy baseball strategy (head-to-head or rotisserie) was simple: load up on position players with my first 15 picks, then grab a couple starting pitchers and maybe one closer at the very end of the draft. Then, I'd pick up starting pitchers that were pitching the next day, and promptly drop them and pick up the next day's starters, etc. I'd dominate on the offensive stats, I'd lead the world in wins and strikeouts, and didn't bother wasting roster spots for closers since they were good for only one scoring stat category.

There's definitely skill involved in Fantasy Football (at least, on par with baseball in the luck-skill levels). You look at offensive tendancies, you look at schedules, and you look at offensive/defensive schemes.

Well, obviously there's some skill involved, as you mentioned. It's just that, in all fantasy sports, football in particular, if you score an average of 120-130 points in your league on a weekly basis, but you go up against others who put up say, 150-170 points, week in and week out on you, it's very clear that fantasy football is certainly more luck-based than skill-based. Besides, you can never actually play defense against your opponents offense (at least, I've not heard of one like that before) you only score points based off of your team defense or individual defensive players. So more or less, I don't mean, any idiot can win in fantasy football, but simply that, you can have a great roster, the matchups, and still be unlucky.

Furthermore, I'm shocked that Miami isn't looking to David Garrard to replace Chad Henne. I mean, the man is a serviceable quarterback, and would do fairly well with the weapons that they have there.

[Lights Out]

I do find it humorous, though, that the same guys that have a raging hard-on for Baseball Sabermetrics also shart on Fantasy Football. Not only is it pretty much the same thing, but it's actually utilizing your knowledge of stats into a competitve manner. It's more worthwhile to actually put your knowledge of stats to use instead of just whipping them out to make arguments on a message board.

Sabermetrics and fantasy football are not really similar at all. Maybe if points were awarded in fantasy football for, say, DVOA, YACo, YPT, ANYPA, etc. you'd have somewhat of a point, but the real point of sabermetrics is to judge players more exactly and extensively then the imperfect traditional stats allow for. There's a reason why pretty much all MLB front offices are using sabermetrics now, and it isn't to win arguments.

[UnclearInitial]

Saw earlier that the Dolphins are thinking about signing Garrard or Jake Delhomme. Garrard I understand, but are they considering Delhomme for the guarantee of the #1 pick?

Update: Those 2 aren't signing with Miami. They are looking at Trent Edwards and Brodie Croyle now.

Why couldn't they just start Matt Moore if they are thinking of signing these guys? He wasn't awful in 2010 with the Panthers. On the other hand, this might be exactly why they aren't starting him. Don't want to win out of the Suck for Luck sweepstakes.

PS. The Suck for Luck tanking is extremely stupid. i'd understand doing it on a weak QB draft, but I have a feeling NFL teams wouldn't feel too bad about Matt Barkley, Landry Jones, Ryan Lindley, or Ryan Tennehill.

[rams80]

Saw earlier that the Dolphins are thinking about signing Garrard or Jake Delhomme. Garrard I understand, but are they considering Delhomme for the guarantee of the #1 pick?

Update: Those 2 aren't signing with Miami. They are looking at Trent Edwards and Brodie Croyle now.

Why couldn't they just start Matt Moore if they are thinking of signing these guys? He wasn't awful in 2010 with the Panthers. On the other hand, this might be exactly why they aren't starting him. Don't want to win out of the Suck for Luck sweepstakes.

PS. The Suck for Luck tanking is extremely stupid. i'd understand doing it on a weak QB draft, but I have a feeling NFL teams wouldn't feel too bad about Matt Barkley, Landry Jones, Ryan Lindley, or Ryan Tennehill.

Don't undermine my dreams of selling Luck to the highest bidder. It's all I have left.

[HedleyLamarr]

I do find it humorous, though, that the same guys that have a raging hard-on for Baseball Sabermetrics also shart on Fantasy Football. Not only is it pretty much the same thing, but it's actually utilizing your knowledge of stats into a competitve manner. It's more worthwhile to actually put your knowledge of stats to use instead of just whipping them out to make arguments on a message board.

Sabermetrics and fantasy football are not really similar at all. Maybe if points were awarded in fantasy football for, say, DVOA, YACo, YPT, ANYPA, etc. you'd have somewhat of a point, but the real point of sabermetrics is to judge players more exactly and extensively then the imperfect traditional stats allow for. There's a reason why pretty much all MLB front offices are using sabermetrics now, and it isn't to win arguments.

Welcome to Fantasy Football, dummy.

Seeing as how you're not working in the front office of an MLB team, I'll pose this one question for you: How has the knowledge of Sabermetric stats been beneficial to you, in terms of applying that knowledge to use in some form?

That's all Fantasy Football is: Putting your knowledge of various of traditional and non-traditional stats to use by determining the exact worth and value of Player X to Player Y, factoring in their potential for growth and likelihood of success/failure due to offensive and defensive schemes, and applying it into a competitive manner. For those that take it somewhat seriously, there is a method to the madness, just as there is for anything that involves research and mathematics.

If you're not working in an MLB front office, using Sabermetrics has its limitations for application. It can be argued that Fantasy Football competiton is "using your time wisely" compared to just reading/comprehending Sabermetric stats.

[HedleyLamarr]

Well, obviously there's some skill involved, as you mentioned. It's just that, in all fantasy sports, football in particular, if you score an average of 120-130 points in your league on a weekly basis, but you go up against others who put up say, 150-170 points, week in and week out on you, it's very clear that fantasy football is certainly more luck-based than skill-based. Besides, you can never actually play defense against your opponents offense (at least, I've not heard of one like that before) you only score points based off of your team defense or individual defensive players. So more or less, I don't mean, any idiot can win in fantasy football, but simply that, you can have a great roster, the matchups, and still be unlucky.

The same can be said for any fantasy sport, really.

I just can't buy the point that one fantasy sport is less-lucky/more-skill than another fantasy sport.

[Gothamite]

Neither can I; I think they're all harmful to the sport to the extent that they influence over coverage of it.

[pmoehrin]

Chad Henne is done for the rest of the year and Garrard to Miami isn't looking like its gonna happen.

If I were Miami I would consider making a rare regular season trade for someone like a Matt Flynn, a Jimmy Clausen, John Beck or possibly even a Vince Young.

Obviously it might be a couple of weeks before any of those guys could start, but I rather go that route then start Matt Moore for the entire year who's thrown all of 418 passes in his 5 year NFL career and is a definite backup QB, or sign a Jake Delhomme who I would say is clearly done. You wouldn't be making a huge commitment financially and if you don't like the guy you could release him and draft a new QB.

Carson Palmer wouldn't be a bad route to go either, but Mike Brown has made it clear that sticking it to Carson Palmer is more important then making his football team better.

[NJTank]

John Beck was a Dolphin

There is only one solution get Pat White and

SUCK FOR LUCK

[pmoehrin]

John Beck was a Dolphin

There is only one solution get Pat White

I know your joking but Pat White couldn't even hack it in the UFL, so that's not happening.

I also forgot about Beck being a Dolphin, but you are right so that option was out before I ever even said it.

Also the Dolphins are going with Sage Rosenfels which I don't think is a bad choice considering their circumstance. I think he's one of those guys that's never really gotten a fair chance to prove himself but should have. Unfortunately he's 33 now, so it may be too late. If he can get the Dolphins to be at least .500 for the rest of the year, you might see Rosenfels back in Miami for at least one more year as the starter.

Right now if I had to guess where Miami would end up, I'd say their draft pick will be somewhere in the 3rd-8th range. So they could very well be able to get a crack and Barkley or Landry Jones as well or trade up to a team like the Rams to get either one of those guys as well. Be very interesting to see if Indy gets the first pick. That may wind up being the toughest decision a team ever has to make with the QB position, even tougher then the Niners move to bench Montana in favor of Steve Young. In retrospect if was the right move, but the Niners took heat for years over making that decision. Probably even a good number of Niner fans that still think they should have stuck with Montana.

[Lights Out]

SUCK FOR LUCK

I'm going to laugh my ass off if, at the end of all this hysteria, Luck turns out to be a total bust.

[DEAD!]

SUCK FOR LUCK

I'm going to laugh my ass off if, at the end of all this hysteria, Luck turns out to be a total bust.

hmmm... from Suck for Luck to Luck Sucks...

[IceCap]

SUCK FOR LUCK

I'm going to laugh my ass off if, at the end of all this hysteria, Luck turns out to be a total bust.

Especially if he goes to Indy