2014 MLB Changes (logo, uniform wise, etc)

[WSU151]

Taking 10 minutes out of a game to honor a veteran is fine with me. The game is secondary in the grand scheme of things. Complaining that it interrupts the flow of a game is pretty naive.

Naive?

Yep.

[Gothamite]

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

And it is faux outrage. Honoring someone at a :censored:ing baseball game for a couple of minutes, someone who has volunteered to work for not-much money in the face of danger does absolutely no harm to anyone...except maybe it hurts your feelings. Wah. Let me get some tissues for you. And then after that, we can cheer on a bunch of millionaire drunks who beat their wives and then party it up, because sports.

Not all baseball players are heroes. Not all heroes are baseball players. Same thing applies for soldiers.

When baseball teams start honoring cops, firefighters, public school teachers and all the other groups from whose ranks we can find underpaid heroes serving the public, then I will drop my legitimate outrage. Until then, no thanks. I'll call it for what it is.

[WSU151]

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

And it is faux outrage. Honoring someone at a :censored:ing baseball game for a couple of minutes, someone who has volunteered to work for not-much money in the face of danger does absolutely no harm to anyone...except maybe it hurts your feelings. Wah. Let me get some tissues for you. And then after that, we can cheer on a bunch of millionaire drunks who beat their wives and then party it up, because sports.

Not all baseball players are heroes. Not all heroes are baseball players. Same thing applies for soldiers.

When baseball teams start honoring cops, firefighters, public school teachers and all the other groups from whose ranks we can find underpaid heroes serving the public, then I will drop my legitimate outrage. Until then, no thanks. I'll call it for what it is.

Any veteran or policeman, or firefighter would be more on the heroic side than any baseball player, in my book. But that's just me. Not everyone goes to war, despite what Nike's marketing team thinks.

Public school teachers are an interesting case. I guess they are honored when they're involved in a shooting or the like. In all likelihood, Mr. Smith from the elementary school probably doesn't have to go through the rigors of a military, police, or fire department. But that's a different argument.

You can claim legitimate outrage all you like. And I can call it faux outrage just the same.

[wonderbread]

Again - it's not that there's any problem with honoring anyone at a sporting event. It's that it's gotten to the point where you have to.

It's great that they volunteer and all that, and fight for our freedom, and USA! - but I just don't understand how that correlates with a baseball game, and how that's the appropriate venue for it.

I'm not going to boo a soldier that gets announced at a game, I just stand respectfully lest I be branded a traitor. I'm also not going to go jerk him off because he's wearing camo.

With the exception of the times where things in sports transcend the game and become legitimate social issues (the Michael Vick case for example, the Washington controversy for another example), or extreme locally-hitting-home stories (fire fighters that saved lives at a major high-rise fire in the city, and things like that) sports should just be about sports, and the government, or schools, or anywhere else where I'm not going there specifically for another reason, can honor anyone they want.

I get that there's 30,000 - 90,000 people at a sporting event, and that gets the honoree more applause than they'd receive if they were being honored at the local Target, but the Philadelphia Eagles and the local Target aren't really that dissimilar, considering they're both private businesses selling products to the public. In the Eagles case, they got some government funding for their stadium (though the majority was private, and their total renovation is all private), so there's a case there that if the government wants to use that place as a venue for something than the team should comply, but that's not why they do it. They do it to pander to the community, and to the USA! USA! crowd. In my opinion, at least.

what teams are saying they are being forced to do these things? most do it from there hearts to make these peoples days, most sporting events offer tickets to local military units so they can go to, I've benefitted from this being able to go to a nascar race and accouple red sox games, and going to a bruins game this month. No one says they have to do these things but they want to, and i don't hear anyone complaining to the celtics because they don't do this, and the pats give out tickets as well it's just a lot harder to get them.

[Gothamite]

You can claim legitimate outrage all you like. And I can call it faux outrage just the same.

Yeah, except it's not exactly good form here to attack your fellow posters. And when you claim that their arguments are dishonest, that's exactly what you're doing.

I presume that you're posting in good faith, and you should extend the same courtesy to everyone else, regardless of whether or not they happen to disagree with you.

[WSU151]

Again - it's not that there's any problem with honoring anyone at a sporting event. It's that it's gotten to the point where you have to.

It's great that they volunteer and all that, and fight for our freedom, and USA! - but I just don't understand how that correlates with a baseball game, and how that's the appropriate venue for it.

I'm not going to boo a soldier that gets announced at a game, I just stand respectfully lest I be branded a traitor. I'm also not going to go jerk him off because he's wearing camo.

With the exception of the times where things in sports transcend the game and become legitimate social issues (the Michael Vick case for example, the Washington controversy for another example), or extreme locally-hitting-home stories (fire fighters that saved lives at a major high-rise fire in the city, and things like that) sports should just be about sports, and the government, or schools, or anywhere else where I'm not going there specifically for another reason, can honor anyone they want.

I get that there's 30,000 - 90,000 people at a sporting event, and that gets the honoree more applause than they'd receive if they were being honored at the local Target, but the Philadelphia Eagles and the local Target aren't really that dissimilar, considering they're both private businesses selling products to the public. In the Eagles case, they got some government funding for their stadium (though the majority was private, and their total renovation is all private), so there's a case there that if the government wants to use that place as a venue for something than the team should comply, but that's not why they do it. They do it to pander to the community, and to the USA! USA! crowd. In my opinion, at least.

Well Target's technically a public company /semantics

As for the earlier bold, nobody's forcing you to jerk him off. You're not gonna get arrested and executed at second base because you don't applaud or what not. You're not forced to do any of these things. The team wants to acknowledge members of the community who have volunteered, in this day of age, to go to war.

If anything, it's an overreaction to the 70s, when Vietnam vets were getting on by war protestors. People realize that's probably not the best reaction, either.

Are you also outraged when they bring out the Special Olympics kids because that has nothing to do with baseball either? Doesn't the compassion and the thought of "Well, I guess I can clap for at least four seconds" compel you to honor them?

[BBTV]

.

[BBTV]

Again - it's not that there's any problem with honoring anyone at a sporting event. It's that it's gotten to the point where you have to.

It's great that they volunteer and all that, and fight for our freedom, and USA! - but I just don't understand how that correlates with a baseball game, and how that's the appropriate venue for it.

I'm not going to boo a soldier that gets announced at a game, I just stand respectfully lest I be branded a traitor. I'm also not going to go jerk him off because he's wearing camo.

With the exception of the times where things in sports transcend the game and become legitimate social issues (the Michael Vick case for example, the Washington controversy for another example), or extreme locally-hitting-home stories (fire fighters that saved lives at a major high-rise fire in the city, and things like that) sports should just be about sports, and the government, or schools, or anywhere else where I'm not going there specifically for another reason, can honor anyone they want.

I get that there's 30,000 - 90,000 people at a sporting event, and that gets the honoree more applause than they'd receive if they were being honored at the local Target, but the Philadelphia Eagles and the local Target aren't really that dissimilar, considering they're both private businesses selling products to the public. In the Eagles case, they got some government funding for their stadium (though the majority was private, and their total renovation is all private), so there's a case there that if the government wants to use that place as a venue for something than the team should comply, but that's not why they do it. They do it to pander to the community, and to the USA! USA! crowd. In my opinion, at least.

Well Target's technically a public company /semantics

As for the earlier bold, nobody's forcing you to jerk him off. You're not gonna get arrested and executed at second base because you don't applaud or what not. You're not forced to do any of these things. The team wants to acknowledge members of the community who have volunteered, in this day of age, to go to war.

If anything, it's an overreaction to the 70s, when Vietnam vets were getting on by war protestors. People realize that's probably not the best reaction, either.

Are you also outraged when they bring out the Special Olympics kids because that has nothing to do with baseball either? Doesn't the compassion and the thought of "Well, I guess I can clap for at least four seconds" compel you to honor them?

Outraged is an overreaction. I'm not outraged - I'm... whatever the combination of eye rolling and *sigh*ing is.

Of course I'm not outraged when teams do things for local kids - a lot of time it's the organization who actually goes to the team and either asks or works with them to make it happen for the kid, since that's the only time he'll get applause from thousands of people. And I get that with the local soldiers as well (while I'm not very supportive of some the many of the post 9/11 military actions, I'm able to make the distinction between the man and the uniform). But when it becomes a part of the daily routine, when it becomes "what - you honor someone every 7th inning? well we'll do it every first pitch!" "yeah? well... we'll have our players dress up like them too then! Top that!" it ceases to be a case of supporting the community that supports you, and becomes just another brick in the wall of pandering.

[WSU151]

You can claim legitimate outrage all you like. And I can call it faux outrage just the same.

Yeah, except it's not exactly good form here to attack your fellow posters. And when you claim that their arguments are dishonest, that's exactly what you're doing.

I presume that you're posting in good faith, and you should extend the same courtesy to everyone else, regardless of whether or not they happen to disagree with you.

Outrage should be reserved for activities that significantly hamper or damage your way of life.

A small annoyance at a baseball game is faux outrage.

EDIT: BBTV hit the nail on the head with above post ^^^. And I'd agree that doing a whole bunch of things is over-the-top and comes off as phony, such as ridiculous camoflouge or stars-and-stripes uniforms. Small things such as honoring a vet, one time per game, doesn't get me angry though. To be fair, I don't go to a lot of baseball games either, so I don't see the redundancy; however, as I told Bucfan, it might be redundant to the repeat fans, but it's probably not redundant to the person walking on the field or shown on the scoreboard.

[wonderbread]

Again - it's not that there's any problem with honoring anyone at a sporting event. It's that it's gotten to the point where you have to.

It's great that they volunteer and all that, and fight for our freedom, and USA! - but I just don't understand how that correlates with a baseball game, and how that's the appropriate venue for it.

I'm not going to boo a soldier that gets announced at a game, I just stand respectfully lest I be branded a traitor. I'm also not going to go jerk him off because he's wearing camo.

With the exception of the times where things in sports transcend the game and become legitimate social issues (the Michael Vick case for example, the Washington controversy for another example), or extreme locally-hitting-home stories (fire fighters that saved lives at a major high-rise fire in the city, and things like that) sports should just be about sports, and the government, or schools, or anywhere else where I'm not going there specifically for another reason, can honor anyone they want.

I get that there's 30,000 - 90,000 people at a sporting event, and that gets the honoree more applause than they'd receive if they were being honored at the local Target, but the Philadelphia Eagles and the local Target aren't really that dissimilar, considering they're both private businesses selling products to the public. In the Eagles case, they got some government funding for their stadium (though the majority was private, and their total renovation is all private), so there's a case there that if the government wants to use that place as a venue for something than the team should comply, but that's not why they do it. They do it to pander to the community, and to the USA! USA! crowd. In my opinion, at least.

Well Target's technically a public company /semantics

As for the earlier bold, nobody's forcing you to jerk him off. You're not gonna get arrested and executed at second base because you don't applaud or what not. You're not forced to do any of these things. The team wants to acknowledge members of the community who have volunteered, in this day of age, to go to war.

If anything, it's an overreaction to the 70s, when Vietnam vets were getting on by war protestors. People realize that's probably not the best reaction, either.

Are you also outraged when they bring out the Special Olympics kids because that has nothing to do with baseball either? Doesn't the compassion and the thought of "Well, I guess I can clap for at least four seconds" compel you to honor them?

Outraged is an overreaction. I'm not outraged - I'm... whatever the combination of eye rolling and *sigh*ing is.

Of course I'm not outraged when teams do things for local kids - a lot of time it's the organization who actually goes to the team and either asks or works with them to make it happen for the kid, since that's the only time he'll get applause from thousands of people. And I get that with the local soldiers as well (while I'm not very supportive of some the many of the post 9/11 military actions, I'm able to make the distinction between the man and the uniform). But when it becomes a part of the daily routine, when it becomes "what - you honor someone every 7th inning? well we'll do it every first pitch!" "yeah? well... we'll have our players dress up like them too then! Top that!" it ceases to be a case of supporting the community that supports you, and becomes just another brick in the wall of pandering.

i don't think it's a one upping match like you are saying. I think it's more of hey lets do this because no one else is, trying to be the first, or a hey that was cool we should do that as well because it was a good idea.

[Hat Boy]

But when it becomes a part of the daily routine, when it becomes "what - you honor someone every 7th inning? well we'll do it every first pitch!" "yeah? well... we'll have our players dress up like them too then! Top that!"

I see what you are saying about this stuff being so commonplace, Vet, but taking a few minutes to recognize people who make positive contributions in the community can't be such a bad thing. Yes, some of it is a little over the top, but such is the world of sports/entertainment.

At least having a veteran or police officer raise the flag at a game, or recognizing a teacher in a pre-game ceremony invites that person to be a part of something. I don't think the Reds playing the Padres while both teams wear camo uniforms does anything for military members. I doubt there is a soldier or Marine watching that game with a tear in their eye who says, "yep, that makes all my sacrifice worthwhile."

[cmm]

Hope I didn't start a fight....oopsies.

Anyways, to me, taking a "God Bless America" break before the 7th inning stretch makes about as much sense as taking a "God Bless America" break right two-thirds of the way through a movie or concert or play. It also strikes me as something they would do in North Korea--interrupt a non-related event to show patriotism. And that kind of creeps me out.

Plus, as an atheist, I hate how the Yankee Stadium PA guy tells everyone to offer a silent prayer before the sing-along begins. I either stay in my seat or head to the bathroom or get a soda.

[wonderbread]

Hope I didn't start a fight....oopsies.

Anyways, to me, taking a "God Bless America" break before the 7th inning stretch makes about as much sense as taking a "God Bless America" break right two-thirds of the way through a movie or concert or play. It also strikes me as something they would do in North Korea--interrupt a non-related event to show patriotism. And that kind of creeps me out.

Plus, as an atheist, I hate how the Yankee Stadium PA guy tells everyone to offer a silent prayer before the sing-along begins. I either stay in my seat or head to the bathroom or get a soda.

the thing is there is a natural break at the 7th inning stretch, do you get mad at take me out to the ball game being played during that time time too, or fenway singing sweet caroline. most people enjoy these things, and doing this honor at the 7th inning stretch makes those people happy too.

[cmm]

The players warm up during "Take Me Out to the Ball Game" and "Sweet Caroline." Therefore they do not grind the game to a halt. So no, I have no problem with those. Everyone on the field stops what they're doing during "God Bless America" so I do have a problem with that one.

[Eye]

Sweet logos

[McCall]

Sweet logos

Don't go off topic.

[BBTV]

Sweet logos

Don't go off topic.

Just to veer this off topic some more - has there been any updates on the new Cubs uniform? From what I last recall, it was going to say CUBS on it instead of Chicago, right?

[Artmanc3po]

Sweet logos

Thank you!

[illwauk]

Who is questioning your loyalty?

And both of you need to look up the definition of "cynical". I think you have it confused with something else. Questioning others' intentions is what you do...which oddly enough...is the definition of the word.

Well, this asshat, for one.

A rebuttal to an ESPN article is questioning your loyalty and patriotism? Do you really take internet articles this seriously? This particular writer's view that is a dissention of your own view makes him an "asshat"? Good to know.

When you go to a game...nobody forces you to be patriotic. You're not forced to wave a flag. You don't have to chant "USA USA USA" if you don't want to. You can sit and not do anything if you want. Go to the pisser during the ceremony if you so decide. Nobody will say anything, I promise.

Sounds like this is pretty much faux outrage because you're not part of the majority.

You asked who was questioning my loyalty in an attempt to call my bluff, I answered, and now it's not legit because it's on the very same medium we're using to communicate in the first place?

The point is, people like that writer exist, and many others agree with him. Frankly, I think it's a bit sad that you're so dogmatic about this that you can't see anyone who disagrees with you as having anything but "faux outrage." I was one of the few people here who actually came out in support of Christopher Dorner (to an extent)... do you REALLY think I care about whether or not I'm part of the majority? Is it really THAT hard for you to admit that those of us who aren't cosigning to all the "MILITARY, YEAH!" being pushed at modern sporting events might actually have a point... even if you don't necessarily agree with it?

1) I was trying to figure out if it was one of us who was questioning your loyalty or patriotism, or someone of importance. But it's not. It's some anonymous author and I guess it makes you feel better to call him an asshat. Good on you, illwauk.

2) You and your side have a perfectly fine argument. I disagree with it. You have issues honoring the military and police and sporting events. I don't. We shouldn't stop honoring them just because you and your minority don't like it.

Honoring someone at a :censored:ing baseball game for a couple of minutes, someone who has volunteered to work for not-much money in the face of danger does absolutely no harm to anyone...except maybe it hurts your feelings. Wah. Let me get some tissues for you. And then after that, we can cheer on a bunch of millionaire drunks who beat their wives and then party it up, because sports.

1) So because the people who do such a thing aren't members of the CCSLC, it makes the fact that such people exist less valid? Good to know.

2) Very interesting that you keep emphasizing "sides" and which one is a minority and which one isn't. It's almost as if you're saying that minorities and their opinions deserve to be subjugated and invalidated simply because a lot of people disagree with them.

And seriously, my mother worked up to 4 different jobs at a time to support our family, and I'm pretty sure she doesn't need to be trotted out during a Brewers game to feel validated. So spare ME the waterworks about how its so wrong it is to be annoyed at yet another display of carefully calculated public relations by a private business... as if the military are the ONLY people who are overworked and underpaid.

Y'know, I REALLY hoped you'd learned something about being a presumptive, condescending a~~ after our last interaction, but apparently that lesson was lost on you.

[WSU151]

Who is questioning your loyalty?

And both of you need to look up the definition of "cynical". I think you have it confused with something else. Questioning others' intentions is what you do...which oddly enough...is the definition of the word.

Well, this asshat, for one.

A rebuttal to an ESPN article is questioning your loyalty and patriotism? Do you really take internet articles this seriously? This particular writer's view that is a dissention of your own view makes him an "asshat"? Good to know.

When you go to a game...nobody forces you to be patriotic. You're not forced to wave a flag. You don't have to chant "USA USA USA" if you don't want to. You can sit and not do anything if you want. Go to the pisser during the ceremony if you so decide. Nobody will say anything, I promise.

Sounds like this is pretty much faux outrage because you're not part of the majority.

You asked who was questioning my loyalty in an attempt to call my bluff, I answered, and now it's not legit because it's on the very same medium we're using to communicate in the first place?

The point is, people like that writer exist, and many others agree with him. Frankly, I think it's a bit sad that you're so dogmatic about this that you can't see anyone who disagrees with you as having anything but "faux outrage." I was one of the few people here who actually came out in support of Christopher Dorner (to an extent)... do you REALLY think I care about whether or not I'm part of the majority? Is it really THAT hard for you to admit that those of us who aren't cosigning to all the "MILITARY, YEAH!" being pushed at modern sporting events might actually have a point... even if you don't necessarily agree with it?

1) I was trying to figure out if it was one of us who was questioning your loyalty or patriotism, or someone of importance. But it's not. It's some anonymous author and I guess it makes you feel better to call him an asshat. Good on you, illwauk.

2) You and your side have a perfectly fine argument. I disagree with it. You have issues honoring the military and police and sporting events. I don't. We shouldn't stop honoring them just because you and your minority don't like it.

Honoring someone at a :censored:ing baseball game for a couple of minutes, someone who has volunteered to work for not-much money in the face of danger does absolutely no harm to anyone...except maybe it hurts your feelings. Wah. Let me get some tissues for you. And then after that, we can cheer on a bunch of millionaire drunks who beat their wives and then party it up, because sports.

1) So because the people who do such a thing aren't members of the CCSLC, it makes the fact that such people exist less valid? Good to know.

2) Very interesting that you keep emphasizing "sides" and which one is a minority and which one isn't. It's almost as if you're saying that minorities and their opinions deserve to be subjugated and invalidated simply because a lot of people disagree with them.

And seriously, my mother worked up to 4 different jobs at a time to support our family, and I'm pretty sure she doesn't need to be trotted out during a Brewers game to feel validated. So spare ME the waterworks about how its so wrong it is to be annoyed at yet another display of carefully calculated public relations by a private business... as if the military are the ONLY people who are overworked and underpaid.

Y'know, I REALLY hoped you'd learned something about being a presumptive, condescending a~~ after our last interaction, but apparently that lesson was lost on you.

If that's not the pot calling the kettle black, I don't know what it is.. the only reason I mess with you is because you're just the same...anyway...

Did your mom ever lose her legs while being ambushed during one of her four jobs? Did her vehicle ever explode into a ball of fire because of a bomb on the way to work? If she did, the Brewers probably should honor her...maybe you'd clap, maybe not.