Wings2 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 I think the CBS contract with the NHL at the time mandated there be 2 west coast expansion teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartacat_12 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 14 hours ago, BBTV said: Well St. Louis had an NHL team, and most of the other expansion 6 were in traditional hockey markets. I don't know much about the Oakland/SF situation and whether there was any appetite there or not. Either way, there's nothing wrong with giving something a shot, but much like Captain Picard in First Contact, sometimes the auto destruct sequence needs to be activated rather than continuing a futile resistance. At the end of the day, if the NHL hadn't decided to widen its footprint in the '60s & '70s the WHA would've done it, and would have potentially overtaken them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 West Coast expansion in 1967 was motivated by concerns about the ultimate goals and intentions of the Western Hockey League; much as with the Dodgers and Giants' moves in the 50s killshotting the Pacific Coast League's major league ambitions, setting up shop in LA and San Francisco put an end to any major league aspirations for the Western League. 7 Quote On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gosioux76 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 13 hours ago, Wings2 said: I think the CBS contract with the NHL at the time mandated there be 2 west coast expansion teams. Speaking of TV contracts, isn't that a big part of this Phoenix v. Quebec City issue? I think the success of Winnipeg has been a fantastic story for the NHL and a model worth replicating. On the whole, you'd think you would be better off being wildly successful in a small market that supports the team rather than struggling in a much larger market that doesn't. And in a gate-driven league, logic would think replicating the success they've had in small-market Winnipeg would be great. But I don't think being a gate-driven league is a label the NHL wants to keep. Swapping Phoenix for Canada's seventh-largest city would seem to immediately devalue the billion-dollar TV deals the league just signed with ESPN and Turner. You're essentially giving up around 2.8 million TV homes, based on Nielsen data, for a market of 800,000 in a country where those networks don't have broadcast rights. That's why, if Phoenix were to move, finding a buyer in a city like Houston would make more economic sense for the league. If anything, it would be an upgrade. I guess it comes down to whether the league can ever embrace its role of being niche. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sodboy13 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 My understanding of the Oakland Seals is that the NHL had its first real American television deal with CBS for 1967-68, and that CBS wanted two teams in California as part of the agreement. The WHL had the San Francisco Seals, the NHL wanted to destroy any aspirations the WHL had of being a rival major league, and the Seals owners had just enough interest and funding to make the jump. It went poorly from there for the Seals, but the league and the network both got what they wanted in the short term. (I thought the previous page was the end of this thread. It was not.) 1 Quote On 1/25/2013 at 1:53 PM, 'Atom said: For all the bird de lis haters I think the bird de lis isnt supposed to be a pelican and a fleur de lis I think its just a fleur de lis with a pelicans head. Thats what it looks like to me. Also the flair around the tip of the beak is just flair that fleur de lis have sometimes source I am from NOLA. PotD: 10/19/07, 08/25/08, 07/22/10, 08/13/10, 04/15/11, 05/19/11, 01/02/12, and 01/05/12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartacat_12 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 3 hours ago, gosioux76 said: I think the success of Winnipeg has been a fantastic story for the NHL and a model worth replicating. On the whole, you'd think you would be better off being wildly successful in a small market that supports the team rather than struggling in a much larger market that doesn't. And in a gate-driven league, logic would think replicating the success they've had in small-market Winnipeg would be great. It's been a fantastic story in Manitoba and, to a lesser extent, in Canada, but I don't think it's necessarily had a huge impact on the league as a whole. Things in Winnipeg have pretty much gone as well as they possibly could have, but they've still hit the small market ceiling and don't have anywhere else to go. They have far & away the smallest arena in the league, so despite selling out almost every game, they've still been a bottom 5/bottom 10 team attendance-wise. They haven't been losing money, but are still the 26th valued franchise in the league. When you consider that this is a best case scenario for Quebec City, I can understand the league's hesitation. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sec19Row53 Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 On 1/18/2022 at 10:39 AM, gosioux76 said: Speaking of TV contracts, isn't that a big part of this Phoenix v. Quebec City issue? I understand and don't disagree with the speculation, but has that been proven anywhere? Because on the flip side, a good TV draw has to draw beyond its own market. If the NHL isn't a good TV draw, then the markets are immaterial. Quote It's where I sit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gosioux76 Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 17 hours ago, Sec19Row53 said: I understand and don't disagree with the speculation, but has that been proven anywhere? Because on the flip side, a good TV draw has to draw beyond its own market. If the NHL isn't a good TV draw, then the markets are immaterial. I get that, but I presume the league, when selling itself to network partners, is pitching the size of the total potential audience rather than looking at it on a market by market basis. So the idea of swapping a market of 2 million -plus for one of 800,000 in a different country would make enough of a difference in total market size to shrink the value of any potential deal. At this point, it’s not about actual audience but potential audience. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridleylash Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 Also, Canadian relocation/expansion right now has to be pretty iffy on their minds anyways, given how the existing Canadian teams are faring with having attendance in the building. Not even being able to have fans in the building or only a very limited amount would not be the kind of environment the league wants a brand new franchise to have starting off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont care Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 3 hours ago, Ridleylash said: Also, Canadian relocation/expansion right now has to be pretty iffy on their minds anyways, given how the existing Canadian teams are faring with having attendance in the building. Not even being able to have fans in the building or only a very limited amount would not be the kind of environment the league wants a brand new franchise to have starting off. With mask, testing and vaccine mandates going away all over the world and then treating it as the cold/flu I don’t see Canada being too far behind. They’ll probably do away with them by the summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartacat_12 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 So it's looking like the Coyotes are finalizing a plan to play at the new ASU arena for the next 3-4 years while they get their own arena sorted out. https://gophnx.com/2022/01/27/coyotes-in-advanced-discussions-with-asu-to-use-new-multi-purpose-venue-as-interim-arena-solution/ It only has a capacity of 5000, which is half of the Veterans Memorial Coliseum, but it does have luxury suites & lounges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sodboy13 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 Guess what's going to happen in 3-4 years. Go on, guess. The Coyotes exist to eat unwanted contracts and artificially decrease hockey related revenues. Maybe they can explore the NFT space and become a three-headed scam. 12 Quote On 1/25/2013 at 1:53 PM, 'Atom said: For all the bird de lis haters I think the bird de lis isnt supposed to be a pelican and a fleur de lis I think its just a fleur de lis with a pelicans head. Thats what it looks like to me. Also the flair around the tip of the beak is just flair that fleur de lis have sometimes source I am from NOLA. PotD: 10/19/07, 08/25/08, 07/22/10, 08/13/10, 04/15/11, 05/19/11, 01/02/12, and 01/05/12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeypower Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 OITGDNHL I guess, but how can the other owners and the league think having a NHL team play in a rink with capacity that would fit it more with Jr. A arenas is a good plan? The Coyotes average attendance so far this season is over double 5000. HRR in the tank. That ASU arena, if sold out every game, would be sixth in ECHL attendance this season, seventh in attendance last season and tenth in attendance for 2018-19. The Coyotes will be out attended by multiple ECHL teams if they move there. Heck, the Coyotes AHL (Tuscon, 8962) and ECHL (Rapid City, 7500) affiliates will be playing in bigger arenas. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMU Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 I would compare this to the Chargers in Carson situation but the Chargers had a future address. You can't seriously call this a temporary home when there's no actual permanent venue on the back end. Then there's this gem: Quote Due to NCAA compliance issues, the Coyotes would not be permitted to use Sun Devil hockey’s team areas. They would have to build their own, without contribution from ASU, which does not need the extra areas or it would have already built them. One source estimated that cost between $15 and $20 million, with all of that money coming out of owner Alex Meruelo’s pocket. So, a brand new on-campus arena surrounded by temporary locker rooms. The union's going to love that. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sodboy13 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 Quote with all of that money coming out of owner Alex Meruelo’s pocket. lol bet That works out to around $600,000 per owner from the other 31, which I assume will be considered a reasonable price to keep the contract dumping ground alive. 1 Quote On 1/25/2013 at 1:53 PM, 'Atom said: For all the bird de lis haters I think the bird de lis isnt supposed to be a pelican and a fleur de lis I think its just a fleur de lis with a pelicans head. Thats what it looks like to me. Also the flair around the tip of the beak is just flair that fleur de lis have sometimes source I am from NOLA. PotD: 10/19/07, 08/25/08, 07/22/10, 08/13/10, 04/15/11, 05/19/11, 01/02/12, and 01/05/12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTConcepts Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 Jesus Christ, just move the team to Quebec. If nothing else, the Centre Videotron can be a temporary home until they find a buyer in Houston. I don't know why anyone is even marginally considering the move to ASU as a legitimate option. Like, it's so bats#!t crazy I can't find proper words for it. 7 Quote "You ain't gonna learn what you don't wanna know..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Comet Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 This has to be the most ridiculous idea I’ve ever seen. Moving to a cornfield in Iowa would be a better move than this. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcj882000 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 On 1/22/2022 at 11:21 AM, Ridleylash said: Also, Canadian relocation/expansion right now has to be pretty iffy on their minds anyways, given how the existing Canadian teams are faring with having attendance in the building. Not even being able to have fans in the building or only a very limited amount would not be the kind of environment the league wants a brand new franchise to have starting off. I have to admit, it really bugs me that this is even a thing. "Your country's still taking COVID semi-seriously? Well that's bad for business, so we can't put a new team there right now!" Not to get too into it here, but it really showcases these people's real priorities. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gosioux76 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 15 minutes ago, Red Comet said: This has to be the most ridiculous idea I’ve ever seen. Moving to a cornfield in Iowa would be a better move than this. I would not be surprised if the next stage of this involves the Coyotes trying to replicate the Tampa Bay Rays' split-season plan: Play half the season at ASU, then the other half in Quebec. That, or they'll develop some new barnstorming, permanent road team concept and try to spin it as an innovation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sodboy13 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 11 minutes ago, gosioux76 said: That, or they'll develop some new barnstorming, permanent road team concept and try to spin it as an innovation. Hey, it worked for the Houston ThunderBears! 2 Quote On 1/25/2013 at 1:53 PM, 'Atom said: For all the bird de lis haters I think the bird de lis isnt supposed to be a pelican and a fleur de lis I think its just a fleur de lis with a pelicans head. Thats what it looks like to me. Also the flair around the tip of the beak is just flair that fleur de lis have sometimes source I am from NOLA. PotD: 10/19/07, 08/25/08, 07/22/10, 08/13/10, 04/15/11, 05/19/11, 01/02/12, and 01/05/12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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