NHL Anti-Thread: Bad Business Decision Aggregator

[mcj882000]

7 minutes ago, Kooky01 said:

Surprised nobody has brought up Hartford or Milwaukee as a possible spot for the Yotes. Both cities are capable of holding an NHL team. 

Speaking as the resident Whalers diehard who desperately wants them to return: Hartford ain't getting a team as long as the city's primary arena is still the one that the Whalers fled in the first place.

[Sodboy13]

33 minutes ago, Kooky01 said:

Surprised nobody has brought up Hartford or Milwaukee as a possible spot for the Yotes. Both cities are capable of holding an NHL team. 

 

Milwaukee requires you to pay the Blackhawks several hundred million for territorial rights. Hartford was a small-time WHA oddity with an arena that sucked 25 years ago and no intention to build a new one. Moving on.

 

[dont care]

52 minutes ago, Kooky01 said:

Surprised nobody has brought up Hartford or Milwaukee as a possible spot for the Yotes. Both cities are capable of holding an NHL team. 

Hartford isn’t in the slightest. Yea the whalers were there but since they have left Connecticut has become bruins territory (if it wasn’t already). No way they are putting another team in New England.

[BBTV]

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but how is Milwaukee considered Chicago's territory? 

[The_Admiral]

1 hour ago, BBTV said:

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but how is Milwaukee considered Chicago's territory? 

 

Because a 50-mile radius from the United Center would bump into a 50-mile radius from the Findom Forum. Or maybe it's 75. It's the same reason Hamilton technically encroaches on Toronto and Buffalo. This was the justification that Wirtz used when the Pettits (as backed by the Bradleys of Allen-Bradley) were sniffing around the NHL in the early '90s. 

 

However, in practice, Milwaukee is Minnesota's territory insofar as Fox Sports Wisconsin runs Wild games when there's nothing else to run, and blacks out the full Wild schedule on the out-of-market package whether FSN runs the games or not. Kenosha County gets NBC Sports Chicago, but that's about it. Southeast Wisconsin hockey fans seem to be divided primarily among the Hawks, Wings, and Perds. I can't imagine Wild fans really start popping up until you start getting around Madison. 

 

I would have been thrilled to see the Perds wind up in Milwaukee back in 2007 when the team had one foot out the door. A Chicago-Milwaukee rivalry would have been spirited in all the best ways, whereas Chicago-Nashville has never risen above tedious. A Milwaukee hockey fanbase wouldn't just be PMC nerds showing off how good they are at posting, I can tell you that much right now.

[kiwi_canadian]

Is Portland, Oregon on the map at all? I know that when Lemieux was threatening to move the Penguins if he didn't get a new arena deal, Portland was one of his relocation ideas. It would set up a Cascadia Cup for hockey with the Canucks, Kraken and Portland Buckaroos (maybe?)

[gosioux76]

52 minutes ago, kiwi_canadian said:

Is Portland, Oregon on the map at all? I know that when Lemieux was threatening to move the Penguins if he didn't get a new arena deal, Portland was one of his relocation ideas. It would set up a Cascadia Cup for hockey with the Canucks, Kraken and Portland Buckaroos (maybe?)

 

About 10 years ago, there was a grassroots effort among some local businesses to drum up interest in an NHL team. And the late Paul Allen, owner of the Trail Blazers, at one point had team President Chris McGowan, a former executive with the L.A. Kings, sniff around at the idea of hosting an NHL franchise at the Rose Garden, but nothing ever came of it.  

 

In 2017, the Glendale newspaper reported Coyotes officials had toured arenas in both Portland and Seattle, but the Blazers insisted it never happened. 

 

Long story short: it's long been floated as a possibility, especially in the years prior to the Kraken coming into the picture. But there's never been any solid movement or outward expression of interest, at least not in the way there has been for a MLB franchise. 

 

Plus, Portland suffers from the same lack of corporate support as other mid-level markets.  It's just not a big business town. 

[The_Admiral]

The Coyotes were looking at Portland when they weren't sure whether they'd get their own arena built in 2000-2001, but I don't think anything serious ever came of it.  I know they were looking closely at Seattle as a worst-case scenario in 2013, the moving trucks were ready, but we know what happened there. I don't remember Portland coming up at that time as anything serious. It was Phoenix or Seattle, the NHL having swatted away a Quebec City proposal around 2012.

[Sport]

On 12/14/2021 at 11:33 AM, LMU said:

I think the main problem with assuming that the basic math problem is what's causing the pushback is that this situation is a case where the calculation was so egregiously bad for something that you have only one shot at.  This is the sports equivalent of NASA confusing imperial and metric units for a satellite trajectory.  So, as much as it could help to build yet another arena in a different spot screwing up with the first one isn't something that you can claim a mulligan for. 

 

That's why I'm not saying they should build a new arena in Tempe, but to declare that the arena location isn't a factor at all is just silly. 

[LMU]

2 hours ago, Sport said:

 

That's why I'm not saying they should build a new arena in Tempe, but to declare that the arena location isn't a factor at all is just silly. 

Of course.  I'm just reiterating that it's equally silly for anyone to use the location argument for sympathy when someone made the indefensible decision to move to that arena in the first place.

[SFGiants58]

2 minutes ago, LMU said:

Of course.  I'm just reiterating that it's equally silly for anyone to use the location argument for sympathy when someone made the indefensible decision to move to that arena in the first place.

 

See the Tampa Bay Rays. Of course, they were forced into that horrid location and chained down there by King Cheapskate himself, Vince Naimoli. 

 

I don't think any Coyotes owner has done anything as truly awful as Naimoli's Tropicana Field lease.

[Brass]

19 hours ago, Sodboy13 said:

Hartford was a small-time WHA oddity with an arena that sucked 25 years ago and no intention to build a new one. Moving on.

 

Ain't anywhere to put an arena that would make sense, either.

[JerseyJimmy]

mentioned this before, but I seriously wonder how Salt Lake City would fare as an NHL market. it'd at least have to be better than Phoenix; I get it'd be one of the smallest in the league, but if nothing else, you have the LORE of the 2002 Winter Olympics to play up.

[Red Comet]

Moving to a bad location is in and of itself a major indictment of how incompetent the owners have been. I think it’s a chicken and egg situation. Most people with decent business sense wouldn’t think a hockey team where ice doesn’t form at all in winter or never freezes thick enough to play hockey would be an instant success. So, you get people that are more risk-taking or inexperienced. People who would put teams in an arena on the ass end of a city because the land deal was cheap before asking why it’s cheap. You could get Atlanta Spirit whose infighting and incompetence was legendary. But sometimes you get Dallas or Tampa Bay as successful market. 
 

Sure, markets do determine success and can be an obstacle but making good decisions can do a lot too. Or, you can be in a hockey-mad market and thus not have to put any effort at all in the team while still selling out all the time. I think this is partially why a Canadian team hasn’t lifted the Cup in almost 30 years. 

[kolob]

41 minutes ago, JerseyJimmy said:

mentioned this before, but I seriously wonder how Salt Lake City would fare as an NHL market. it'd at least have to be better than Phoenix; I get it'd be one of the smallest in the league, but if nothing else, you have the LORE of the 2002 Winter Olympics to play up.

 

We'd need a new arena. The Maverik Center is too small and Vivint just isn't a good arena. But, with the city bidding on the 2030/2034 Winter Olympics ... who knows? I'd love to see SLC get a club. Bring back the Golden Eagles.

[The_Admiral]

1 hour ago, JerseyJimmy said:

mentioned this before, but I seriously wonder how Salt Lake City would fare as an NHL market. it'd at least have to be better than Phoenix; I get it'd be one of the smallest in the league, but if nothing else, you have the LORE of the 2002 Winter Olympics to play up.

 

Along with wandering the desert and being picky about food, obsessing over basketball is another way that Mormons try to pretend that they're Jews. Does Utah have a hockey culture even remotely commensurate with its basketball culture? I have never gotten the sense that they do. 

[SFGiants58]

6 minutes ago, the admiral said:

 

Along with wandering the desert and being picky about food, obsessing over basketball is another way that Mormons try to pretend that they're Jews. 

 

Mormons get involved in true crime more often than Jews.

 

  *

 

 

...among others. I've never picked up on many Jewish serial killers, weird murderers, or cult leaders.

 

*Jodi Arias converted for her victim (Travis Alexander), who was also a convert - a "culturally Mormon" man

[mcj882000]

37 minutes ago, the admiral said:

 

Along with wandering the desert and being picky about food, obsessing over basketball is another way that Mormons try to pretend that they're Jews. Does Utah have a hockey culture even remotely commensurate with its basketball culture? I have never gotten the sense that they do. 

To be fair, I'm not sure if people expected SLC to have a basketball culture either prior to 1979. If what I've read in the past was right the Jazz weren't even expected to stay there, hence why they kept their extremely regional name; but then they did.

[The_Admiral]

44 minutes ago, mcj882000 said:

To be fair, I'm not sure if people expected SLC to have a basketball culture either prior to 1979.

 

Pretty sure they did, just not an NBA one. They still don't, depending on who you ask.

 

Anyway, point is, people see ski slopes and think "oh, a hockey team." Not necessarily. They don't really like hockey much in Norway, either.

[DustDevil61]

6 hours ago, kimball said:

 

We'd need a new arena. The Maverik Center is too small and Vivint just isn't a good arena. But, with the city bidding on the 2030/2034 Winter Olympics ... who knows? I'd love to see SLC get a club. Bring back the Golden Eagles.

I’ve heard somewhere that the Maverik Center was built with an option to be expanded should the need arise. It was also completed in *checks notes* 1997.

 

I’ll reiterate that a new arena—or a renovated/expanded Maverik Center—would be required long-term. While a nice basketball arena and venue, Vivint Arena doesn’t have great sight lines for hockey. It could work for a couple years while another building is being prepared, but little else.

 

Having gone to the Kings/Knights preseason game there a couple months ago, I learned first-hand of the sight lines’ limitations. The upper bowl directly behind the nets were left empty as you couldn’t see them.
 

Add to the fact that Vivint Arena was renovated around 5 years ago, so doing that all over again soon just doesn’t seem likely at all.

 

Honestly, though, I’m come to accept the likelihood that an NHL team never comes to Utah. Las Vegas is only a 5-6 hour drive or a short flight to Denver/LA/Seattle/etc. away.

 

I’d love an AHL team in the Maverik Center in some kind of long-term, no-relocation agreement. Now, that’s not how the AHL works, but I guess a guy can dream.

 

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by DustDevil61
Accepting likelihood