NHL Anti-Thread: Bad Business Decision Aggregator

[JerseyJimmy]

okay. I'll say it. I don't want the Coyotes to move to Houston. I don't want another spoiled sun belt team with a housebroken local/state government that the NHL lets do whatever the hell they want (hi Tampa, how ya doin Tampa). Quebec should be the first option by a long shot, but even without it, I'd say somewhere like SLC deserves an NHL team way more than the Stepford-ass urban-planning-but-only-for-cars hellscape that is Houston.

[IceCap]

1 hour ago, Sodboy13 said:

No one in the league is particularly interested in Québec City. Where else do they go? 

Quebec City.

[kiwi_canadian]

Quebec City seems the most logical choice. This seems a lot like the Jets situation with a willing owner and an 18 000 NHL ready arena already built and run by by the owners who want the team.  Quebecor Media also has the French broadcasting rights for the NHL through TVA Sports so it would make the most sense to relocate there. Move the Jackets back west to take the Coyotes spot in the Central Division, the Nordiques play in the Atlantic Division and one of either Boston, Florida or Tampa to the Metropolitan Division... But this is a Bettman run NHL so logic doesn't apply.

[FCMacbeth]

22 minutes ago, kiwi_canadian said:

Quebec City seems the most logical choice. This seems a lot like the Jets situation with a willing owner and an 18 000 NHL ready arena already built and run by by the owners who want the team.  Quebecor Media also has the French broadcasting rights for the NHL through TVA Sports so it would make the most sense to relocate there. Move the Jackets back west to take the Coyotes spot in the Central Division, the Nordiques play in the Atlantic Division and one of either Boston, Florida or Tampa to the Metropolitan Division... But this is a Bettman run NHL so logic doesn't apply.

Probably because you can't make money off a small market team in Bettman's eyes. I'll be surprised if it actually happened because, as far as I know, Houston will be more likely to host an NHL team whether you like it or not.

[Red Comet]

12 hours ago, JerseyJimmy said:

okay. I'll say it. I don't want the Coyotes to move to Houston. I don't want another spoiled sun belt team with a housebroken local/state government that the NHL lets do whatever the hell they want (hi Tampa, how ya doin Tampa). Quebec should be the first option by a long shot, but even without it, I'd say somewhere like SLC deserves an NHL team way more than the Stepford-ass urban-planning-but-only-for-cars hellscape that is Houston.

And that’s why it’s going to probably wind up in Houston. On a surface-level economic analysis, it makes sense. Houston is the New York of the South and Quebec City was only bigger than Green Bay as far as Big 4 markets went by 1994. On paper, even if hockey is behind the Houston Dynamos, there will still be more fans of the Houston Coyotes or whatever they wind up being called over the Newdiques no matter how fervent that fanbase will be. Also, there’s a big elephant that the Nordiques logo totally looks like

Spoiler

at least that’s what I thought as a kid

in the room. Quebec City is virtually monolingual in French. It’s why Eric Lindros demanded a trade from Quebec when he was drafted. Now, having a salary cap is going to make the Newdiques a more sustainable situation than last time but the small market and the language barrier will be there no matter how rich Quebecor is. 
 

As far as Kansas City? The closest we’re going to get to that is if Lamar Hunt Jr decides to buy the team in bankruptcy court because he balked at the price of an expansion team back in 2017. And if Houston completely falls through. 

[IceCap]

On 12/8/2021 at 10:09 PM, monkeypower said:

 

[Sport]

 

3 hours ago, kiwi_canadian said:

Quebec City seems the most logical choice. This seems a lot like the Jets situation with a willing owner and an 18 000 NHL ready arena already built and run by by the owners who want the team.  Quebecor Media also has the French broadcasting rights for the NHL through TVA Sports so it would make the most sense to relocate there. Move the Jackets back west to take the Coyotes spot in the Central Division, the Nordiques play in the Atlantic Division and one of either Boston, Florida or Tampa to the Metropolitan Division... But this is a Bettman run NHL so logic doesn't apply.

 

The correct answer is the Red Wings and I'm gonna tell everyone why. Outside of some loose O6 connections the Red Wings have no real rivalry with the Canadiens or Bruins, if we're being honest. You could argue the Leafs are a rival dating back to the Norris, but that fizzled when Toronto went to the Eastern Conference in the 90's and I don't think it's heated up since being together in the Atlantic. The Blue Jackets have no real rivalries with anybody (and they never will if they go back west), but putting the Red Wings in the East means you've lost actual rivalries with Chicago, St. Louis, Colorado, and Minnesota. They did damage in the West and a lot of the Western Teams punched back over the years too. The Ducks, Flames, Sharks, Canucks, and Kings all have history with them as well. They haven't had any impact in the East. I still don't even really consider them an Eastern Conference team and culturally Detroit is more similar to those cities than any on the East Coast too. The Jackets, on the other hand, never made any noise in the West so there's no benefit to going back. They have done some things since being in the East, though, including being the last team to beat Tampa in a playoff series and they eliminated Toronto in the bubble. Those rivalries are budding and it'd be a shame to cut them short now.

[ManillaToad]

1 hour ago, kiwi_canadian said:

and one of either Boston, Florida or Tampa to the Metropolitan Division

 

Boston definitely isn't moving out of Montreal's division. I imagine Tampa would pull the "Screw you we won back to back Cups" card and Florida would be forced to hop divisions

[IceCap]

8 minutes ago, Sport said:

You could argue the Leafs are a rival dating back to the Norris, but that fizzled when Toronto went to the Eastern Conference in the 90's and I don't think it's heated up since being together in the Atlantic.

The Wings were the Leafs' biggest rivals after the Canadiens but I think the Bruins have supplanted them in that spot in recent history. 

 

I wouldn't miss them if they went out west, is what I'm saying. 

 

5 minutes ago, ManillaToad said:

 

Boston definitely isn't moving out of Montreal's division. I imagine Tampa would pull the "Screw you we won back to back Cups" and Florida would be forced to hop divisions

The NHL division alignments are a joke anyway. And if moving the Coyotes to Quebec City is what blows it all up and forces the league to start again then so be it. 

 

I've never seen such a blatant attempt at artificial crowd inflation then sticking Tampa and Florida in a division with Boston, Buffalo, Detroit, Montreal, Ottawa, and Toronto. 

And yes I included Tampa. They draw plenty well on their own, but there's always a strong visiting fan contingent when a team from up north comes down, and I have to think the league was aware of that revenue influx. 

 

Point is the current NHL divisions are dumb, and should be redrawn anyway. 

[kiwi_canadian]

1 hour ago, Red Comet said:

And that’s why it’s going to probably wind up in Houston. On a surface-level economic analysis, it makes sense. Houston is the New York of the South and Quebec City was only bigger than Green Bay as far as Big 4 markets went by 1994. On paper, even if hockey is behind the Houston Dynamos, there will still be more fans of the Houston Coyotes or whatever they wind up being called over the Newdiques no matter how fervent that fanbase will be. Also, there’s a big elephant that the Nordiques logo totally looks like

  Reveal hidden contents

at least that’s what I thought as a kid

in the room. Quebec City is virtually monolingual in French. It’s why Eric Lindros demanded a trade from Quebec when he was drafted. Now, having a salary cap is going to make the Newdiques a more sustainable situation than last time but the small market and the language barrier will be there no matter how rich Quebecor is. 
 

As far as Kansas City? The closest we’re going to get to that is if Lamar Hunt Jr decides to buy the team in bankruptcy court because he balked at the price of an expansion team back in 2017. And if Houston completely falls through. 

 

Actually from his interview a few years ago, he had no issue with the team or Quebec. His issue was with Marcel Aubut who owned the team... at least that's what Lindros said.

[The_Admiral]

2 hours ago, Red Comet said:

Quebec City is virtually monolingual in French.

 

Le hockey est pour tout le monde ! Les optiques !

[Sodboy13]

16 hours ago, Sodboy13 said:

I know nothing about the guy's municipal management or politics, nor do I care to, but Kevin Phelps is pretty clearly not the brand of rube the Coyotes and NHL had such good luck with previously in Glendale.

 

"Kev-Dog from Glendale, you're up next on 'Who Ya Crappin'?'"

 

 

Also, yep, they "human error" forgot to pay taxes for 17 months, with accruing interest and penalties, which is a bit ironic because the Coyotes have spent a quarter-century accruing penalties but basically no interest.

 

 

[The_Admiral]

This reminds me of my experience with independent-league baseball, where the play for owners is to not pay their vendors, say "yeah, I'm not paying, what are you going to do about it," and then negotiate fees down to a pittance when the other side gets desperate. (This also seems to get one elected President of the United States.) This works on the company you bought locker stalls from. It doesn't work on the government. 

[IceCap]

2 hours ago, kiwi_canadian said:

Actually from his interview a few years ago, he had no issue with the team or Quebec. His issue was with Marcel Aubut who owned the team... at least that's what Lindros said.

Eric Lindros did and said whatever his mom told him to do and say. 

 

3 hours ago, Red Comet said:

On paper, even if hockey is behind the Houston Dynamos, there will still be more fans of the Houston Coyotes or whatever they wind up being called over the Newdiques no matter how fervent that fanbase will be. Also, there’s a big elephant that the Nordiques logo totally looks like

That's the same "grow the game" crap that's kept this team in Arizona for a quarter of a century bleeding money. 

 

Yeah. Houston is bigger than Quebec City. And Atlanta is bigger than Winnipeg. How'd that turn out? 

 

Fact is that small Canadian markets punch way above their weight with the NHL and sunbelt metropolises tend to punch below their weight unless you have ownership that isn't rock stupid. And this is the NHL so guess how that'll go. 

 

In terms of being a better NHL market? Quebec City laps Houston. 

 

3 hours ago, Red Comet said:

Quebec City is virtually monolingual in French.

The language the fans speak doesn't matter if they pay for tickets. Which is a given that they will. And more than this team ever had in Arizona. 

 

Also as far as language goes...I know as much French as high school was able to drill into me- which is to say not much- but you're playing hockey and on the road half the time. It's not hard to manage in that situation. 

 

[SFGiants58]

10 minutes ago, IceCap said:

Eric Lindros did and said whatever his mom told him to do and say. 

 

Then the Flyers told him to "man up" every time he got a concussion. It's a wonder that he hasn't claimed demons are coming for him through the air conditioning.

[IceCap]

Side note- 

I found it funny how, during the 70s and 80s, the Nordiques were the "separatist" team and the Canadiens were the "Canadian" team.

 

The separatist sentiment was always stronger in Montreal than it was in QC, paradoxically because QC was almost entirely French speaking.

[dont care]

4 hours ago, kiwi_canadian said:

Quebec City seems the most logical choice. This seems a lot like the Jets situation with a willing owner and an 18 000 NHL ready arena already built and run by by the owners who want the team.  Quebecor Media also has the French broadcasting rights for the NHL through TVA Sports so it would make the most sense to relocate there. Move the Jackets back west to take the Coyotes spot in the Central Division, the Nordiques play in the Atlantic Division and one of either Boston, Florida or Tampa to the Metropolitan Division... But this is a Bettman run NHL so logic doesn't apply.

Why not move Detroit to the metro?

[LMU]

20 minutes ago, IceCap said:

The language the fans speak doesn't matter if they pay for tickets. Which is a given that they will. And more than this team ever had in Arizona. 

 

Also as far as language goes...I know as much French as high school was able to drill into me- which is to say not much- but you're playing hockey and on the road half the time. It's not hard to manage in that situation. 

 

Plus, unlike the mid 90s one can use a translator app or do virtual classes to manage their way around.  It's no different than all the Russian players in the league having to learn English.

[The_Admiral]

 

24 minutes ago, IceCap said:

Side note- 

I found it funny how, during the 70s and 80s, the Nordiques were the "separatist" team and the Canadiens were the "Canadian" team.

 

The separatist sentiment was always stronger in Montreal than it was in QC, paradoxically because QC was almost entirely French speaking.

 

Organizationally, the Nordiques made a bigger point out of running a French office than the Canadiens did, which is funny considering all the agony the Montreal media put themselves through when the Habs let Randy Cunneyworth coach the team. Also, while both teams were owned by English breweries (which was a real problem for the Nordiques when Molson and their ad agency effectively controlled Canadian TV deals), I feel like O'Keefe was better about putting French partners like boobs aficionado Marcel Aubut front and center in that role. From everything I've read on the topic, it was a real point of pride for the Nordiques to manage the organization entirely in French. A lot of those people hung on with the Avs for years, too, which fascinates me.

[ManillaToad]

3 hours ago, IceCap said:

The Wings were the Leafs' biggest rivals after the Canadiens but I think the Bruins have supplanted them in that spot in recent history. 

 

I wouldn't miss them if they went out west, is what I'm saying. 

 

The NHL division alignments are a joke anyway. And if moving the Coyotes to Quebec City is what blows it all up and forces the league to start again then so be it. 

 

I've never seen such a blatant attempt at artificial crowd inflation then sticking Tampa and Florida in a division with Boston, Buffalo, Detroit, Montreal, Ottawa, and Toronto. 

And yes I included Tampa. They draw plenty well on their own, but there's always a strong visiting fan contingent when a team from up north comes down, and I have to think the league was aware of that revenue influx. 

 

Point is the current NHL divisions are dumb, and should be redrawn anyway. 

 

I don't see what's so bad about the divisions. The Pacific and Central are as good as you can get them geographically, the Metro has the 6 core teams that all have good rivalries with one another, and the Atlantic has the three Canadian teams + Bruins who should all be together. Nothing about where Buffalo, Detroit, Carolina, Columbus, and the Florida teams are placed seems egregiously bad to me.