NHL Anti-Thread: Bad Business Decision Aggregator

[The_Admiral]

Shane Doan threw a huge bitch fit and threatened not to report to Winnipeg if the team moved there, any talk of the Coyotes handling their uncertainty with quiet dignity can be shoved up an array of asses.

Seriously?

He said he had a no-move clause and thus couldn't be made to move with the team and wouldn't; what that elbow-throwing gomer failed to grasp was that "no-move" refers to trades/releases/assignments, not relocations.

[CS85]

Just because someone isn't vocal about their thoughts on a message board doesn't mean we don't exists.

Regular season pride =

x41

Can you honestly look at this thread and blame a coyote fan for staying out of it? Until very recently there has been very little positive things for myself to post regarding this situation so unlike some people I decide to keep my complaining, whining, and overall sour grapes to myself. Things are finally starting to move in a positive direction and I finally have something to post about.

Winning cures everything, but in this case it doesn't. It perpetuates a grim and likely unfixable set of circumstances. Write it up to "butthurt blackhawks fan pissing on coyotes joy," but you know it's more than that.

[rams80]

Remember that time coyotes fans were outspoken, proud, and attended home games with regularity?

Oh yeah, this thread.

Just because someone isn't vocal about their thoughts on a message board doesn't mean we don't exists. Can you honestly look at this thread and blame a coyote fan for staying out of it? Until very recently there has been very little positive things for myself to post regarding this situation so unlike some people I decide to keep my complaining, whining, and overall sour grapes to myself.

Not mentioned: The fact that Phoenix has fielded two very good teams prior to this season, with apparently no one, including the above poster noticing. That might be why the Coyotes are in this predicament.

Things are finally starting to move in a positive direction and I finally have something to post about.

I remember when I was that deluded and naive. I think back then I thought Lawrence Phillips was going to lead the Rams to greatness.

All of you already have your mind made up. I honestly believe if they found an owner who agreed to pick up all the debt many around here would still find something to complain about and would continue to hypothesize in the collapse of the entire Glendale area.

Fortunately we will never see that scenario play out, as such a madman does not exist. (If he did, 2008 wiped him out.)

Keep the hate and ridicule up. Hopefully the Yotes will continue winning and find an owner so some people will still have something to complain about.

Such as the arena burning down because Glendale can't afford to have a fire department anymore. Now that's what I call irony!

[Still MIGHTY]

Yeah, I can't do the doubtful, slight sarcasm at the Phoenix Coyotes or their fans anymore. I'm too wrapped up in this now. Tonight was awesome. Before, I just wanted the Coyotes to stay so I could have a place to watch hockey while I'm away at school. Now, I just want them to stay. I really have enjoyed this run too much and have now got the Coyotes solidly entrenched as my #2 team that I can't continue with that wishy-washy sarcasm.

If this deal falls through, then so be it. If a deal is held up in court, so be it. If they do eventually leave, then so be it, and that will just really really really suck. I'm going to root for the Coyotes. I'm not going against them or their fans actively or with slight passive-aggressive sarcasm (Unless there comes a point where it's really really needed). Whatever happens happens. Not going to make a big fuss. I'd just like them to stay. Not at the complete detriment of a community of course. I would hope that something gets worked out so everyone benefits. That's all I can hope for.

Before anyone comes down on me for being naive or stupid or etc, at this point, you're probably right. Look I acknowledge all of the stupidity behind the scenes in Glendale and I have been one to point it out and go after it. If Glendale continues down its own self destructive path or probably when this current Coyote euphoria I'm getting swept up in subsides, then I'll agree that the thing needs to end. But like I said in the last paragraph, if something can eventually be worked out where everyone gets their benefit and it works for the better, that's all I can hope for.

Go Coyotes.

[Sodboy13]

Shane Doan threw a huge bitch fit and threatened not to report to Winnipeg if the team moved there, any talk of the Coyotes handling their uncertainty with quiet dignity can be shoved up an array of asses.

Seriously?

He said he had a no-move clause and thus couldn't be made to move with the team and wouldn't; what that elbow-throwing gomer failed to grasp was that "no-move" refers to trades/releases/assignments, not relocations.

Did he also mention the fact that he was basically anonymous in the city he'd played in for 14 years as a point of pride, or am I confusing him with someone else?

[DarkJourney]

The new Quebec arena is scheduled to open in 2015. So the Coyotes have the next 3 seasons to fix things with Jamison.

[Gothamite]

And if the reports are true (and even if this "tentative deal" actually goes through where the others fell apart) under the terms of the lease he'll be free to move them.

[Gothamite]

you can't question the determination of this team.

Nobody has.

Quite the opposite; we've been saying for years that this team deserves to play in a market with at least a modicum of interest in the sport. Which, objectively, ain't Arizona.

[Sport]

Last night I came home from trivia at the bar a little headsure and decided to get in an argument with a friend of mine on twitter which, with only 140 characters, is the most annoying place to have an argument). He's the staff writer for Blue Jackets.com

Here's the exchange:

This, folks, is a hockey story. Except it's one that you cannot write. Congratulations to the Phoenix Coyotes.

-Every Coyotes win is bad for the NHL. They need to lose (and move) ASAP. It's not a good story.

Another U.S. market losing its team is not good for the NHL. New ownership needs to stabilize what is a terrific organization.

-but Winnipeg was great for the NHL. QC will be great too. The Coyotes are bleeding Glendale dry.

-Plus, I'm worried that like Atlanta last year, our CBJ will be sacrificed to keep Bettman's Coyotes in the desert. It's not good.

That's a rather large conspiracy theory, and not one I agree with. Sorry man.

-Fair, but a league-owned team winning a championship still looks bad on many levels for the NHL.

Not league-owned for much longer.

-Hardly. The new ownership is basically being given the team and Glendale is giving money they don't have. It's not true ownership.

It's a league with competitive balance no other sport has. Great to see a team that was counted out doing well.

-Parity is not my contention. I love that about the NHL. It's this franchise that I have the problem with.

It's easy to say "move them to Quebec City." But that city failed to support its team and lost it, too.

-Because Phoenix's support of a playoff team is so wonderful....Winnipeg heard the same talking points last year.

"Giving a damn" is certainly not an issue in the Coyotes organization. They've proven that.

-Trying to separate the on-ice play from the finances here. New ownership doesnt solve the city's financial burden to this team.

-it's the same deal with Hulsizer last year. The city will essentially pay him $92 million to buy the team.

I'm just thrilled to see an organization with great people, and a loyal group of fans, be shown some hope after two tenuous years.

-well I'll be pulling for the Kings in the WCF. Their fans, like the CBJ faithful, showed up to regular season games.

So even league employees from other teams are for some reason supporting this. I agree with most of what this guy usually writes and he's good on BlueJackets.com, but I had to say something. Am I wrong?

[IceCap]

Nope.

[IceCap]

Before anyone comes down on me for being naive or stupid or etc, at this point, you're probably right. Look I acknowledge all of the stupidity behind the scenes in Glendale and I have been one to point it out and go after it. If Glendale continues down its own self destructive path or probably when this current Coyote euphoria I'm getting swept up in subsides, then I'll agree that the thing needs to end. But like I said in the last paragraph, if something can eventually be worked out where everyone gets their benefit and it works for the better, that's all I can hope for.

Sorry, saying "Before anyone comes down on me for being naive or stupid" isn't going to stop me from calling you naive. Not stupid, you're not stupid. Just naive. Lets take a look at the bolded text.

Glendale IS continuing down "its own self destructive path" with the Jamison deal. If Jamison's deal goes through (and it's a big if with it being illegal and all) the city's gifting him $92 million in operating expenses. I have to wonder how they can afford that without cutting additional civil services. Sorry, it's not a matter of if Glendale continues down the path of financial ruin. They've already proven they're willing to do so. Three times now, for three different potential owners. The offer that's on the table would guarantee they continue down that path.

Now for the italicized text. That would be wonderful, wouldn't it? Thing is, that's not the offer that's on the table. Jamison wouldn't be in the best interests of the city financially and you bloody well know it. It's wonderful to imagine that a mysterious owner will come by, agree to buy the team outright with no cash from the city needed and take up all the team's debts. Thing is that scenario hasn't happened since this mess started in 2009. Ever offer to buy the team and keep them in Glendale would have required the city to continue paying out the a$$. Jamison's offer, the only current offer on the table, is a continuation of this trend. It's not "hopeful," even by your own biased assessment of the situation.

The only offer to buy the team straight up and assume all debts was made by Jim Balsillie, who was willing to pay well above market value. The league shot it down, however, because he wanted to move them. The fact that no potential owner has stepped up with an offer to buy them outright and assume all debts while keeping them in Glendale is perhaps a sign that this team shouldn't be in its current location.

Go Coyotes.

Go sensible NHL. Go common sense. Go fiscal responsibility.

All of you already have your mind made up. I honestly believe if they found an owner who agreed to pick up all the debt many around here would still find something to complain about and would continue to hypothesize in the collapse of the entire Glendale area.

Except that's never once happened. Three potential owners, and not one ever made that offer. The offer on the table you're so "hopeful" about requires continued subsidies from the city. Subsidies they cannot afford without cutting civil services.

I don't know what part of the Greater Phoenix Metro area you're from, but if it's not Glendale then you're being incredibly selfish in wanting to see this team stick around. Glendale gets financially destroyed but you're happy because SPORTS!

If you are from Glendale then you're being incredibly naive, because your home town's going to bankrupt itself just so you can still have your Coyotes.

[Gothamite]

So even league employees from other teams are for some reason supporting this. I agree with most of what this guy usually writes and he's good on BlueJackets.com, but I had to say something. Am I wrong?

Well, there's your problem right there.

His responses sure read like a list of talking points. He says all the "right" things, but doesn't actually address the issues you raise. He's either not actually reading your tweets, or he's trying to force his ill-fitting script into the conversation.

[TheOldRoman]

I honestly believe if they found an owner who agreed to pick up all the debt many around here would still find something to complain about and would continue to hypothesize in the collapse of the entire Glendale area.

Keep the hate and ridicule up. Hopefully the Yotes will continue winning and find an owner so some people will still have something to complain about.

Well, that's a strawman argument. There will be no owner who doesn't take massive subsidies from Glendale. If that were to happen, people might say "wow, it sucks that team continues to rot in front of an empty arena while actual hockey fans in QC have no team", and subsequently laugh at the new owner who was sold magic beans, but that's about it. Almost all of the dislike for the situation I have read on this board has been due to the facts that: 1) the league has refused to let them move; 2) Glendale has bankrupted itself to subsidize a team its constituency doesn't care about; and 3) Glendale will be breaking laws to facilitate the team's sale to a local owner. You can't base an argument around the hypothetical of if any of those conditions didn't exist.

[CubsFanBudMan]

So even league employees from other teams are for some reason supporting this. I agree with most of what this guy usually writes and he's good on BlueJackets.com, but I had to say something. Am I wrong?

Well, there's your problem right there.

His responses sure read like a list of talking points. He says all the "right" things, but doesn't actually address the issues you raise. He's either not actually reading your tweets, or he's trying to force his ill-fitting script into the conversation.

Exactly. That read more like a political press conference than a conversation between friends on Twitter. He's trying to keep his job.

[tigerslionspistonshabs]

Out of curiousity, what's the Yotes attendance during the playoffs been?

[NJTank]

McCarthy, this league owned line of yours is utter crap. Was it bad for baseball that the Rangers were league owned half a season and went to the World Series?

Or was it better to have the leagued owned Montreal Expos have their hands tied so tightly behind their back it has taken nearly a decade after moving and getting stable ownership to finally become a good team.

Would you rather have a league owned team allowed to compete like the Coyotes or broken down like the New Orleans Hornets?

There is nothing the league did unethical to help the Coyotes.

The Gretzky ownership was horrible and they made them bad on the ice, but GM Dave Maloney has made smart economical moves and put a good team on the ice. Last year they lost their goalie Ilya Bryzgalov and had to replace him with a throw away that was basically unwanted in Tampa. I gaurun-damn-tee you the Lightning regret it every hour on the hour as they are on the golf course. Mike Smith has been red hot since they end of the season and that is the reason the Coyotes are on this run. At no time did the league direct a big named player to Phoenix.

And you know me I am very critical of Gary Betman but the Coyotes run is well deserved and if it saves the franchise and gets fans in Arizona interested than so be it.

See you soon the Quebec City Islanders.

As for Columbus moving that would be bad for the NHL, the league needs a team in Ohio. Maybe one day they will get one. . Seriously the fans of the Blue Jackets deserve better, they have had horrendous management from day one.

[pollux]

Out of curiousity, what's the Yotes attendance during the playoffs been?

First round

17,538

17,539

17,746

Second round

17,187

17,217

17,182

Arena capacity: 17,125 (17,799 with standing room)

[Gothamite]

And you know me I am very critical of Gary Betman but the Coyotes run is well deserved and if it saves the franchise and gets fans in Arizona interested than so be it.

At what cost? The Coyotes have been good for the past three years, playing playoff hockey, and still they can't draw flies in the desert. They're still losing tens of millions of dollars a year, money that the city of Glendale has to funnel from legitimate city services like libraries to cover the team's losses.

Even under the rosiest scenarios now being floated, the city will have to pay $17,000,000 per year to subsidize a failing private industry. Tank, forgive me for introducing a personal comment, but I thought you were a conservative.

[IceCap]

But SPORTS!

Arizona seems like a pretty conservative state all things considered, yet Glendale's on track to have one of the highest municipal tax rates in the country, simply to subsidize a failing private business. Steadfast political convictions go out the window when sports are involved. 'cause it's such a great story you know

[charger77]

And you know me I am very critical of Gary Betman but the Coyotes run is well deserved and if it saves the franchise and gets fans in Arizona interested than so be it.

At what cost? The Coyotes have been good for the past three years, playing playoff hockey, and still they can't draw flies in the desert. They're still losing tens of millions of dollars a year, money that the city of Glendale has to funnel from legitimate city services like libraries to cover the team's losses.

Even under the rosiest scenarios now being floated, the city will have to pay $17,000,000 per year to subsidize a failing private industry. Tank, forgive me for introducing a personal comment, but I thought you were a conservative.

By saving the franchise I assume he meant on ice and financially.

Arizona seems like a pretty conservative state all things considered, yet Glendale's on track to have one of the highest municipal tax rates in the country, simply to subsidize a failing private business.

But even conservative states have liberal pockets and vice versa.