Washington NFL Franchise Retires Name and Logo

[The_Admiral]

5 minutes ago, infrared41 said:

 

He barely missed the playoffs in '37, but that was as close as he'd ever get.

 

"Then Germany declared war. Who did they declare it on? The world. And you'd think, oh, well, the world probably won in about five minutes, right? But no, it was actually pretty close."

[infrared41]

23 minutes ago, Moseph said:

Ok, if that's the case then why isn't there complete outrage over all other teams in sports that relate to Native Americans whetherit be through name or imagery?

 

Here's a question for you, I am half Native American. If we met in person, would you be comfortable calling me a "Redskin?"

[WSU151]

30 minutes ago, gosioux76 said:

Native American names in sports do not, and were never intended to, “honor Native Americans.” 

 

Ehhhhh....there are a few that do. 

[sportsfan7]

59 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

I think we have to defer to Native Americans themselves.  Especially the National Congress of American Indians, which is comprised of representatives from all the federally-recognized tribes.
 

The NCAI has made it clear that all Native American imagery is offensive and demeaning. None of it “builds them up”.  
 

I get the sentimental desire to keep something, anything, around.  But there doesn’t seem to be any other responsible choice than to make a clean break. 

Not disagreeing with you, but their are 5 NCAA schools who got approval from local tribes to keep nicknames; Catawba Indians, Central Michigan Chippewas, Florida State Seminoles, Mississippi Choctaws, and Utah Utes. Usually there are strings attached, both Utah and FSU require students to take classes about the tribes, not sure about the others. Wouldn't this be seen as building Natives up? Of them, only FSU uses an Indian Head logo.

[DEAD!]

35 minutes ago, the admiral said:

 

"Then Germany declared war. Who did they declare it on? The world. And you'd think, oh, well, the world probably won in about five minutes, right? But no, it was actually pretty close."

St. Petersburg should get credit with its goal-line defense.

[infrared41]

2 minutes ago, sportsfan7 said:

Usually there are strings attached, both Utah and FSU require students to take classes about the tribes, not sure about the others. Wouldn't this be seen as building Natives up?

 

If you don't mind me answering your question, if those Nations are OK with it, I don't see the problem. At that point, it's between the Nation and the school or team. Period. If the Nation believes the name is a tribute or "builds up" that Nation's image, what else matters? The last thing we need is a bunch of well meaning white people telling Native Nations or Native people how to handle these matters. You can ask my Great-Great Grandfather how that usually works out.

[sportsfan7]

5 minutes ago, infrared41 said:

 

If you don't mind me answering your question, if those Nations are OK with it, I don't see the problem. At that point, it's between the Nation and the school or team. Period. If the Nation believes the name is a tribute or "builds up" that Nation's image, what else matters? The last thing we need is a bunch of well meaning white people telling Native Nations or Native people how to handle these matters. You can ask my Great-Great Grandfather how that usually works out.

You can say that again. Technically speaking, I was referring to the National Congress of American Indians' blanket opposition to Native nicknames and portrayals and how they feel on individual tribes okaying names.

[Moseph]

52 minutes ago, infrared41 said:

 

Here's a question for you, I am half Native American. If we met in person, would you be comfortable calling me a "Redskin?"

If that's what you asked to be called then sure, I would oblige. However, I would never call somebody that out of the blue. I may be naive to the meaning of the word and haven't done any research on it myself, but in my 30 years on this earth, I have never personally heard anyone use it as a racial slur or anything else for that matter other than to refer to the football team here in Washington. I know you have to take everything on the internet with a grain of salt and do your own research, but I've heard Redskin be called a racial slur by some, others say it came about from scalping, and I've also heard that its a term that originated as a self identifier by the Native Americans themselves so I'm not really sure what's true and what's not.

[infrared41]

15 minutes ago, sportsfan7 said:

Technically speaking, I was referring to the National Congress of American Indians' blanket opposition to Native nicknames and portrayals and how they feel on individual tribes okaying names.

 

Believing that the NCAI represents all Native Americans is as silly as believing that Nickelback represents all rock bands. I'm not knocking the NCAI, I'm just saying it isn't the be all end all Native American organization. The funny thing to me about this is how so many people seem to believe that all Native Americans think the same way.

[Cujo]

Quote

I am half Native American. If we met in person, would you be comfortable calling me a "Redskin?"

 

6 minutes ago, Moseph said:

If that's what you asked to be called then sure

 

[SFGiants58]

1 minute ago, infrared41 said:

 

The funny thing to me about this is how so many people seem to believe that all Native Americans think the same way.

Ain’t that the bleeping truth.

[andrewharrington]

13 hours ago, Old School Fool said:

 

They probably could unsew the wordmark from the jerseys and remove the decal from the helmet. I wouldn't like it but if it's what needs to be done then so be it. I have to wonder if the Browns would be irritated by another blank helmet team and possibly try to stop it? It seems like the kinda thing that would happen.

 

I posted a little brainstorm thread about this on Twitter the other day because I think just... doing nothing until they figure it out would be a really sad move. I mean, even the Mississippi legislature had the decency to immediately remove the state flag and go without one until the voters approve a replacement.

 

Here’s the text from that thread (bracketed additions for clarification):

 

“Trying to think of the most impactful gesture Washington could make with its on-field identity this year since it’ll be an exceedingly tight timeline for the @Redskins to create and fully implement a completely new identity before the season.

My first thought was to simply remove the helmet logos and cover up the wordmark under the collar of the game jerseys, playing this season blank in solidarity against the great injustice; a visual metaphor of indigenous people having their identity and traditions taken from them [not only by sports teams, but also by colonists and government armies].
 

However, I think it could also be interpreted as “forced erasure,” and while that can also be an impactful statement against those injustices the same way a taped mouth communicates suppressed speech, it’s also a counterpoint used by many who are against the removal of the name.
 

So, I tried to think of something a little less divisive that couldn’t be co-opted, and I came up with placing the seal of an individual nation on each players’ helmet and donating all remaining revenue from the liquidation of the obsolete merchandise to the nations, followed by a [hard] commitment to establish a permanent exhibit or museum dedicated to the history of racial and cultural symbols in sports, either at the National Museum of the American Indian (which I’d love to see renamed), or at a new DC stadium if that’s what the future holds.

 

Feel free to chime in with ideas and discussion.”

 

6 hours ago, Moseph said:

Obviously this is foreign to me and I may be overreacting a little, but I wish there would've been a way to change the name but still honor Native Americans. At least it looks like they'll stick with burgundy and gold, but it would be nice if there was more of a connection to the history of the team rather than just a color scheme and possibly a hashtag.

 

I don't see this as something that would stop me from following the team but right now it definitely feels like it won't be the same. Just like if they were to move to a new city, a rebrand is going to alienate fans whether it is for this current reason or just something completely out of the blue.

 

I keep circling back to the name “Spirits.”

 

It’s a name that, above all, conveys respect and reverence. It’s something that holds extreme importance to many indigenous cultures and is often associated with them, but wouldn’t have to rely on native imagery to succeed and, in some capacity, it’s also universal to nearly every culture across the world. It’s easy to tie it to aviation and the military (the well-known B-2 aircraft, Arlington National Cemetery), and I like that it can be positioned as keeping “the spirit of the team” alive while moving into this new era. I’m not saying it’s *the* name, but I think the concept has loads of promise. What do you (or anyone else, for that matter) think about something along that train of thought?

[infrared41]

8 minutes ago, Moseph said:

If that's what you asked to be called then sure, I would oblige. However, I would never call somebody that out of the blue. I may be naive to the meaning of the word and haven't done any research on it myself, but in my 30 years on this earth, I have never personally heard anyone use it as a racial slur or anything else for that matter other than to refer to the football team here in Washington. I know you have to take everything on the internet with a grain of salt and do your own research, but I've heard Redskin be called a racial slur by some, others say it came about from scalping, and I've also heard that its a term that originated as a self identifier by the Native Americans themselves so I'm not really sure what's true and what's not.

 

Yeah, there's literally no chance that I'd ask you to call me that. If you did, you'd most likely find yourself getting up off the floor. I don't care what its origin is, it's a slur and it has been from day one. Period. Just because you've never heard someone use it as a slur doesn't mean it's not a slur. And I'm pretty sure you already know that.

[LMU]

1 hour ago, the admiral said:

 

"Then Germany declared war. Who did they declare it on? The world. And you'd think, oh, well, the world probably won in about five minutes, right? But no, it was actually pretty close."

 

43 minutes ago, DEAD! said:

St. Petersburg should get credit with its goal-line defense.

The rest of the world:

 

[Carolingian Steamroller]

Nothing is getting erased here. This isn’t like Stalin airbrushing out the men standing next to Lenin until only he was left. All of Washington’s HOFers will still have their busts and photos. The records will still stand. 
 

One direction the club could take is to reference team history in the new identity. For example, the old fancy Sammy Baugh era numbers, the curly “R,” Lombardi era pants/socks. It possible for a team to feel like it always did, even with a name change.  

[Moseph]

10 minutes ago, infrared41 said:

 

Yeah, there's literally no chance that I'd ask you to call me that. If you did, you'd most likely find yourself getting up off the floor. I don't care what its origin is, it's a slur and it has been from day one. Period. Just because you've never heard someone use it as a slur doesn't mean it's not a slur. And I'm pretty sure you already know that.

I'm not surprised and I wouldn't expect you to. And yes I do know that just because I don't have any experience with it doesn't mean that it isn't hurtful to others. Obviously I need to do some research on the origin and meaning and refrain from anymore comments until I have done my due diligence. 

[The_Admiral]

11 minutes ago, Carolingian Steamroller said:

One direction the club could take is to reference team history in the new identity. For example, the old fancy Sammy Baugh era numbers, the curly “R,” Lombardi era pants/socks. It possible for a team to feel like it always did, even with a name change.  

 

That's always been the frustrating thing. The name was objectionable to many, the logo was bad, but the color palette is very very good, especially when the burgundy is darker (it seems to be getting closer and closer to plain red as of late). I can't blame anyone for not wanting to throw the uniforms away.

[infrared41]

2 minutes ago, Moseph said:

I'm not surprised and I wouldn't expect you to. And yes I do know that just because I don't have any experience with it doesn't mean that it isn't hurtful to others. Obviously I need to do some research on the origin and meaning and refrain from anymore comments until I have done my due diligence. 

 

Or....you could simply come to terms with the fact that your team did the right thing and embrace it.

[Beckhamcantbendmiami]

15 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

so you're not reminding any mature person.

No need for backhanded insults you know

I'm just telling you what I found out when this name was floating around and why it's a bad idea on every level

[Carolingian Steamroller]

9 minutes ago, the admiral said:

 

That's always been the frustrating thing. The name was objectionable to many, the logo was bad, but the color palette is very very good, especially when the burgundy is darker (it seems to be getting closer and closer to plain red as of late). I can't blame anyone for not wanting to throw the uniforms away.

It’s definitely doable. Burgundy and gold are a great pairing. The gold face mask really works. I’ve always liked these throwbacks and the old/shiny gold combination on the current retro jerseys.