slapshot Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 12 minutes ago, Marlins93 said: I'm sure fans of both teams loved Mussina. He was a great pitcher. But he pitched longer and better with Baltimore according to the statistics. Pitcher's wins say just as much about the lineup behind him--they aren't an individual achievement. And Mussina had a near perfect game with the Orioles, too. There's really nothing superior about his Yankees resume aside from more playoff appearances. But I don't think that matters much considering he never got a ring with them and his best postseason pitching performance was in 1997. All-Star nods are hardware. Not as important as Cy Young awards but still hardware. Mussina played on an Orioles team than had Cal Ripken. You can't really consider his nods to be filling some kind of representation quota when you take that into consideration. Seven of Mussina's best ten seasons were with the Orioles according to ERA+. The top three were with Baltimore (1994, 1992, 1995). I have nothing against the Yankees but Mussina's case seems pretty cut and dry. I'm a little shocked that he opted to go logo-less. I saw a Mussina-Pedro matchup at Yankee Stadium back in 1999. Both had at least 12 K's, with the Yankees winning 2-1. Probably the best pitching matchup I've ever seen live. Back-to-Back Fatal Forty Champion 2015 & 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selgy Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 4 hours ago, slapshot said: I saw a Mussina-Pedro matchup at Yankee Stadium back in 1999. Both had at least 12 K's, with the Yankees winning 2-1. Probably the best pitching matchup I've ever seen live. I'm a Rays fan and slowing seeing the Rays play in every road park. I was fortunate/unfortunate enough to see King Felix throw a perfect game against the Rays in 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Wind of Doom Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 12 hours ago, Marlins93 said: I'm sure fans of both teams loved Mussina. He was a great pitcher. But he pitched longer and better with Baltimore according to the statistics. Pitcher's wins say just as much about the lineup behind him--they aren't an individual achievement. And Mussina had a near perfect game with the Orioles, too. There's really nothing superior about his Yankees resume aside from more playoff appearances. But I don't think that matters much considering he never got a ring with them and his best postseason pitching performance was in 1997. All-Star nods are hardware. Not as important as Cy Young awards but still hardware. Mussina played on an Orioles team than had Cal Ripken. You can't really consider his nods to be filling some kind of representation quota when you take that into consideration. Seven of Mussina's best ten seasons were with the Orioles according to ERA+. The top three were with Baltimore (1994, 1992, 1995). I have nothing against the Yankees but Mussina's case seems pretty cut and dry. I'm a little shocked that he opted to go logo-less. I'd looked at the All-Star nods before my last post, and save for one it was a tandem of him and Cal. But my comment was on overall rating of All-Star in weighing which side to go here. They're just... so... not objective. Either you've got fan voting, or you've got the opinion of one dude with his biases, or you've got the voting of peers. Jason mutha%^&ing Varitek. Two wins in the postseason with Baltimore. A lot of garbage seasons for the team. Five postseason wins in New York, two pennants, and the aforementioned near perfect games (I can't remember off the top of my head if it was once or twice but I have this feeling he got one out away twice despite only remembering exactly the circumstances of the one at Fenway), and his only 20-win season. Context makes it less cut-and-dry. But it sounds like you support a rather even analytical view rather than weighing other factors. To each his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCall Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 If there's a possibility that they may change their name to the Cleveland Mussinas, then the current ongoing discussion might actually be relevant to the topic. https://dribbble.com/MakaioCall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonBoy Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 17 hours ago, Marlins93 said: I'm a little shocked that he opted to go logo-less. He didn't leave the Orioles on good terms (not by his fault, either) and I think that may have played into his decision some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptay Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 2 hours ago, McCall said: If there's a possibility that they may change their name to the Cleveland Mussinas, then the current ongoing discussion might actually be relevant to the topic. The Cleveland Mooses! Meese! Meeses. Whatever.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBTV Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 Seemingly-random Cleveland Spiders reference today: "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selgy Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 6 hours ago, ptaylor said: The Cleveland Mooses! Meese! Meeses. Whatever.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 On 1/26/2021 at 2:56 PM, JonBoy said: He didn't leave the Orioles on good terms (not by his fault, either) and I think that may have played into his decision some. And that's why players shouldn't always have the last word on which cap makes the plaque. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29texan Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentColon2 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 I had to double check to be sure I was in the right thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panthers_2012 Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 On 1/26/2021 at 3:20 PM, ptaylor said: The Cleveland Mooses! Meese! Meeses. Whatever.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damnyoutuesday Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Interesting thing I've noticed from Cleveland spring training: no "Indians" on gear They have been using their current road navy alternate that says "Cleveland" instead of the one that says "Indians" that they used last year. This jersey also does not have the spring training patch on the sleeve. This jersey along with the home hat was used in promotional photos that players have been posting. Cleveland also removed "Indians" from their ST hat. Every single piece of gear in photos they have posted on their social media from ST says "Cleveland", even in the road script. So is it possible that they are going with a soft retirement of the name this year? Electing to wear the navy road jersey for home games instead of the white or red jerseys that say "Indians"? Sorry, I'm on an iPad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFGiants58 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 On 12/29/2020 at 3:23 PM, SFGiants58 said: There’ll be flair-ups during the season, undoubtedly. Heck, if the team starts wearing their navy jersey (the “Cleveland” jersey) for every home game, we’ll know something is very up. Called it. MLB: Project 32 (Complete), MLB: The Defunct Saga (Complete) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJWalker45 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 6 hours ago, MNtwins3 said: Interesting thing I've noticed from Cleveland spring training: no "Indians" on gear They have been using their current road navy alternate that says "Cleveland" instead of the one that says "Indians" that they used last year. This jersey also does not have the spring training patch on the sleeve. This jersey along with the home hat was used in promotional photos that players have been posting. Cleveland also removed "Indians" from their ST hat. Every single piece of gear in photos they have posted on their social media from ST says "Cleveland", even in the road script. So is it possible that they are going with a soft retirement of the name this year? Electing to wear the navy road jersey for home games instead of the white or red jerseys that say "Indians"? I think they generally use the alternate for spring training. I can't see them going the whole year using only their Cleveland jerseys though. They'll want to keep selling those home and red jerseys too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cujo Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 At this point, I think they (ownership) is simply keeping "Indians" to soften the blow for select Cleveland diehards. There is no other reason to continue on with it. Players avoid the name. It's not on any gear that touches the field. Just go "WFT" for the year and start anew in 2022. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenTino Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 On 3/10/2021 at 12:30 AM, MNtwins3 said: Interesting thing I've noticed from Cleveland spring training: no "Indians" on gear They have been using their current road navy alternate that says "Cleveland" instead of the one that says "Indians" that they used last year. This jersey also does not have the spring training patch on the sleeve. This jersey along with the home hat was used in promotional photos that players have been posting. Cleveland also removed "Indians" from their ST hat. Every single piece of gear in photos they have posted on their social media from ST says "Cleveland", even in the road script. So is it possible that they are going with a soft retirement of the name this year? Electing to wear the navy road jersey for home games instead of the white or red jerseys that say "Indians"? Definitely a lot more “Cleveland Baseball” merchandise this year, as well. That’s gotta be a tough sell. If you like the “Indians” name, you probably don’t want this. If you’re ready for the name change, anything you buy could be obsolete in a year because the team has made zero commitment to keeping the colors, Block C, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJWalker45 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 3 hours ago, CitizenTino said: Definitely a lot more “Cleveland Baseball” merchandise this year, as well. That’s gotta be a tough sell. If you like the “Indians” name, you probably don’t want this. If you’re ready for the name change, anything you buy could be obsolete in a year because the team has made zero commitment to keeping the colors, Block C, etc. And what uniform elements that have Indians on them, won't be on sale until November at the earliest so I'm sure some folks are sitting out waiting for the prices to drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjflo Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 On 3/10/2021 at 4:28 AM, MJWalker45 said: I think they generally use the alternate for spring training. I can't see them going the whole year using only their Cleveland jerseys though. They'll want to keep selling those home and red jerseys too. The Indians were the only team to take their official pictures in navy and any other color than white. https://imgur.com/a/qowPbLi Compared to last year’s pictures, they still wore white https://imgur.com/a/GtJJvV3 It definitely seems possible they only wear the “Cleveland” jerseys on field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnWis97 Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 It looks like they might just minimize the use of the name, but preferred the option of keeping it for a year rather than going the Washington route. I am actually OK with this even though it’s counterintuitive to suggest the name must go...next year. I suppose this is a showing that it is not as egregious as the Washington name was. But I just can’t bring myself to be upset over the way the team is handling it. It kind of feels like the second to last step in the phase out, with the final step being a new name next year. Wahoo is gone and the name is just sort of keeping the seat warm for a new name. Disclaimer: If this comment is about an NBA uniform from 2017-2018 or later, do not constitute a lack of acknowledgement of the corporate logo to mean anything other than "the corporate logo is terrible and makes the uniform significantly worse." BADGERS TWINS VIKINGS TIMBERWOLVES WILD POTD (Shared) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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