College Football 2023

[BBTV]

4 hours ago, MJWalker45 said:

I'd probably stay put at least until playoffs ended.

 

In a perfect world, sure.  I'm not sure any of us could possibly know what we'd do without being in that position.  I'm a relatively-risk-averse person, so I think I'd not risk injury (if I'm good) or start the transfer process ASAP so I'm not left out (if I'm in that situation), but a person like me who's basically a coward would never be in that position to begin with.  I can't possibly put myself in the mind of someone with that kind of talent and competitiveness and potential to earn millions.

 

All I know is this FSU team is making a mockery of the bowl system, as they don't belong on a postseason field.  Georgia is likely one of the top 4, but they just  lost to another of the top 4, so one could argue that was their playoff opportunity.  But FSU is proving the committee right.  They don't belong on the field with any of those teams, and this will have at least a short-term impact on their recruiting.  

[Red Comet]

I guess Florida State didn't deserve to go to the Playoffs after all. Seems like they just gave up the moment they found out they weren't going. 

I didn't think they were going to get beaten this badly, though. What happened to that "elite" defense? Mizzou looks like it deserved a playoff spot more than FSU. They didn't look "mid", that's for certain. 

Edited December 31, 2023 by Red Comet

[BBTV]

1 minute ago, Red Comet said:

Seems like they just gave up the moment they found out they weren't going. 

 

Or this is what they are now.  I genuinely don't understand any argument that how good they may have been 3 months ago has any relevance in a system where the teams are picked subjectively based on how well they're playing at this point in time.

 

Wins matter - in conference play.  If you were 1-12 because you have the absolute best players in the history of the world but they were all academically ineligible until the last game in November, which you won 233-6, you belong in that playoff.

[FiddySicks]

Lol almost the entire team opted out. That wasn’t “The Bowl committee being proven correct”, it was pretty obviously a protest by FSU.

[infrared41]

Pretty solid take from Brando.

 

[See Red]

Opt outs are only relevant when it's not an SEC team's players opting out.  Otherwise it's just the SEC whining and making excuses. 

 

Doesn't hold much water when Georgia brings in the freshmen at halftime and continues the drubbing.  Biggest blowout in bowl game history and Georgia could've put another 30 on them if they cared to.

[MJD7]

I don't know why I'd bother getting back into this conversation, since it's such an uphill battle after that performance, but here it goes...

 

2 hours ago, See Red said:

Don’t care who was out for Florida State, they look like a mid-tier FCS team right now against Georgia. Embarrassing efffort that probably doesn’t bode well for their 2024 team. 

I don't normally stoop down to the FSU-Florida rivalry banter, especially considering I've now attended both schools, but dancing on the grave of your rival after a historically successful season is a pretty low blow, especially considering your team did not even see a bowl game this season.

 

1 hour ago, BBTV said:

Or this is what they are now.  

I don't want to be making excuses, as there's no way of getting around that loss being embarrassing.

 

But to say that FSU isn't the same team without Jordan Travis (which most people used as their justification for leaving FSU out of the playoff) while also saying that this team without:

• its 2 star wide receivers,
• its running back duo that carried them to the ACC Championship,
• multiple star defensive players, at least one of whom will almost surely be drafted in the 1st round,
• & the backup QB,

all of whom we surely would've seen in the playoff, is the same team, is simply logically incoherent.

 

1 hour ago, BBTV said:

I genuinely don't understand any argument that how good they may have been 3 months ago has any relevance in a system where the teams are picked subjectively based on how well they're playing at this point in time.

I hope people realize the argument isn't that that FSU belonged in this subjective "best team" playoff system as much as it is that the subjective system itself is dumb. 

 

If Lamar Jackson somehow gets injured in tomorrow's game and is out for the rest of the season, no one would be arguing that the Ravens don't deserve their playoff spot. They will obviously be at a significant disadvantage without Jackson, they'd be much more likley to win having him under center, but what they've done up to this point in the season has earned them at least a shot to play in the playoffs. It ought to be the same in college. 

 

I mean, honestly, who would say no to something like this:

 

... where each conference champion gets a playoff spot?

 

If any FCS teams have issues with being left out, then they could play the worst team of their respective region at the end of the season to earn their way into FBS, Premier League style. That'd be a great way to keep all of these random bowl games, while giving them actual stakes and intrigue.

[BBTV]

16 minutes ago, MJD7 said:

I hope people realize the argument isn't that that FSU belonged in this subjective "best team" playoff system as much as it is that the subjective system itself is dumb. 

 

The system is beyond dumb.   I don't think anyone's ever said anything to the contrary.  But it is what it is.

 

16 minutes ago, MJD7 said:

If Lamar Jackson somehow gets injured in tomorrow's game and is out for the rest of the season, no one would be arguing that the Ravens don't deserve their playoff spot.

 

Completely irrelevant comparison.  The NFL as a league has rules that objectively govern who makes the playoffs... just like the ACC does, and the SEC does, the B1G, etc.  That's where this comparison ends.   If the ACC said "sorry, we're going to bypass you for the championship game" then it's apples-to-apples.  This 4-team playoff thing isn't governed by any league rules, since it's just a subjective committee of people that are picking teams from various independent leagues.

 

[MJD7]

3 minutes ago, BBTV said:

Completely irrelevant comparison.  The NFL as a league has rules that objectively govern who makes the playoffs... just like the ACC does, and the SEC does, the B1G, etc.  That's where this comparison ends.   If the ACC said "sorry, we're going to bypass you for the championship game" then it's apples-to-apples.  This 4-team playoff thing isn't governed by any league rules, since it's just a subjective committee of people that are picking teams from various independent leagues.

Not necessarily, the argument is that the NCAA ought to be the broader governing body, over regional divisions/conferences, similar to how the NFL is. Is there any reason that kind of format, like the one I proposed above, wouldn't realistically work?

 

I'm well aware that objective standards are not at all the way things currently are, but again, the way things currently are is dumb. That's why we're having this conversation. It feels pretty reductive to just say "it is what it is" and shrug it off.

[Dynasty]

5 hours ago, infrared41 said:

 

The downside to the Arizona Bowl is that Barstool Sports is doing the broadcast. I've seen cable access stations do a better job. It is truly awful. Tank did the coin toss so there's that, I guess. 

 

I went to the game while visiting relatives in the area. I was spared the broadcast, but got a plentiful of nausea from the Barstool advertising. I also got to see that dipsh!t Dave Portnoy present the fan (I think they're fans... or just Barstool employees) field goal try. Oh, and Tank was present on the big screen during a few of the promotions (the car race, hot dog memory game). Is he like their unofficial mascot?

[infrared41]

27 minutes ago, Dynasty said:

Tank was present on the big screen during a few of the promotions (the car race, hot dog memory game). Is he like their unofficial mascot?

 

More or less. He did the coin toss too.

[alxy8s]

39 minutes ago, MJD7 said:

Is there any reason that kind of format, like the one I proposed above, wouldn't realistically work?

 

What do you mean by realistic? It's a very equitable proposal that certainly gives opportunities to teams that don't really have them today, it preserves regionality, and it looks like most rivalries could be preserved. 10-team conferences also leaves a lot of room for quality OOC games. Sounds great.

 

Unfortunately, that's exactly what college football has been moving away from. The geographic footprints of conferences is past the point of absurdity, century-old rivalries are being trashed, and power is assimilating rather than being shared. If the entire sport started from scratch tomorrow, we wouldn't get anything resembling that 8-conference arrangement. We'd get a B1G+SEC+ND+FSU Super League, and the bottom half of the B1G and SEC would honestly be very lucky to be included. It's headed that way anyway unless one of the new P2 conferences ends up having some self-restraint.

 

Anyways, about today! My alma mater just capped a 13-1 season and won the Orange Bowl by 60 :censored:ing points. I appreciate that FSU got royally screwed out of a playoff bid, but that was a stunning lack of pride.

[MJWalker45]

1 minute ago, alxy8s said:

 

What do you mean by realistic? It's a very equitable proposal that certainly gives opportunities to teams that don't really have them today, it preserves regionality, and it looks like most rivalries could be preserved. 10-team conferences also leaves a lot of room for quality OOC games. Sounds great.

 

Unfortunately, that's exactly what college football has been moving away from. The geographic footprints of conferences is past the point of absurdity, century-old rivalries are being trashed, and power is assimilating rather than being shared. If the entire sport started from scratch tomorrow, we wouldn't get anything resembling that 8-conference arrangement. We'd get a B1G+SEC+ND+FSU Super League, and the bottom half of the B1G and SEC would honestly be very lucky to be included. It's headed that way anyway unless one of the new P2 conferences ends up having some self-restraint.

 

Anyways, about today! My alma mater just capped a 13-1 season and won the Orange Bowl by 60 :censored:ing points. I appreciate that FSU got royally screwed out of a playoff bid, but that was a stunning lack of pride.

The fact that all conference champions don't get a spot is my biggest issue with this. People complain about it, but in FCS, D2 and D3 let that happen. That's why FSU, UNC and Clemson are willing to jump to other conferences, because it's easier to make more money jumping to the Big Ten or SEC than it is to dominate the league they're currently in. 

[alxy8s]

2 minutes ago, MJWalker45 said:

The fact that all conference champions don't get a spot is my biggest issue with this. People complain about it, but in FCS, D2 and D3 let that happen. That's why FSU, UNC and Clemson are willing to jump to other conferences, because it's easier to make more money jumping to the Big Ten or SEC than it is to dominate the league they're currently in. 

I've been against auto-bids in the 4-team format, but scrapping conference divisions and the generous number of at-large spots in the 12-team playoff have warmed me to the idea. This sport desperately needs an objective criteria that at the very least cannot exclude an undefeated team. That's finally been accomplished. 

 

It'll be interesting to see how conference championship games play into the committee's considerations going forward. I maintain that a team is better off finishing third in the B1G or SEC and avoiding the game altogether. You still get a bye and the "penalty" is a home playoff game. Alternatively, you lose the conference championship game, and are potentially eliminated.

[infrared41]

12 minutes ago, alxy8s said:

It'll be interesting to see how conference championship games play into the committee's considerations going forward.

 

Depends on how it affects the SEC.

[Sykotyk]

3 hours ago, alxy8s said:

I've been against auto-bids in the 4-team format, but scrapping conference divisions and the generous number of at-large spots in the 12-team playoff have warmed me to the idea. This sport desperately needs an objective criteria that at the very least cannot exclude an undefeated team. That's finally been accomplished. 

 

It'll be interesting to see how conference championship games play into the committee's considerations going forward. I maintain that a team is better off finishing third in the B1G or SEC and avoiding the game altogether. You still get a bye and the "penalty" is a home playoff game. Alternatively, you lose the conference championship game, and are potentially eliminated.

It is NOT going to take long for the 16-team conferences to decide that semifinals are required. And yes, that means that, better chance one team is making it to the playoffs... but all that money stays with the conference. They don't have to share any of it. And it will be aligned with their TV partners.

 

Imagine Michigan-Penn State and Ohio State-Iowa in semifinals the week after the regular season. And a conference championship the week before the CFP first round. Yeah, there's a reason that extra week was put in there. And it wasn't to get things ready for four host sites. Some conference with their divisionless format will have 3 11-1 teams with 9-0, 8-1, and 8-1 conference records complaining about being left out. And get the change made to allow it. Give it four years, tops.

[MJWalker45]

9 hours ago, Sykotyk said:

It is NOT going to take long for the 16-team conferences to decide that semifinals are required. And yes, that means that, better chance one team is making it to the playoffs... but all that money stays with the conference. They don't have to share any of it. And it will be aligned with their TV partners.

 

Imagine Michigan-Penn State and Ohio State-Iowa in semifinals the week after the regular season. And a conference championship the week before the CFP first round. Yeah, there's a reason that extra week was put in there. And it wasn't to get things ready for four host sites. Some conference with their divisionless format will have 3 11-1 teams with 9-0, 8-1, and 8-1 conference records complaining about being left out. And get the change made to allow it. Give it four years, tops.

This came into play with Arizona and Oregon this year. Had Oregon State beat Oregon, Arizona is in the PAC 12 Championship. I don't think we'll see conference semi-finals though. I think it's more likely that the committee's give those teams bonus points when it comes time to pick teams for the playoffs. 

[MJD7]

16 hours ago, alxy8s said:

What do you mean by realistic? It's a very equitable proposal that certainly gives opportunities to teams that don't really have them today, it preserves regionality, and it looks like most rivalries could be preserved. 10-team conferences also leaves a lot of room for quality OOC games. Sounds great.

 

Unfortunately, that's exactly what college football has been moving away from. The geographic footprints of conferences is past the point of absurdity, century-old rivalries are being trashed, and power is assimilating rather than being shared. If the entire sport started from scratch tomorrow, we wouldn't get anything resembling that 8-conference arrangement. We'd get a B1G+SEC+ND+FSU Super League, and the bottom half of the B1G and SEC would honestly be very lucky to be included. It's headed that way anyway unless one of the new P2 conferences ends up having some self-restraint.

I guess the word I was looking for was more along the lines of "logistically feasible." Obviously it's not realistic in the sense that college football is very clearly moving in the opposite direction, but I was more-so wondering if there was any reason something like that wouldn't be feasible, in a more ideal world. 

 

It's wishful thinking, but maybe the B1G & SEC will eventually get too big for their own good, and they'll end up dividing into subdivisions that are more geographically practical.

[aawagner011]

Yesterday’s Orange Bowl highlighted so many things that need fixing in college football. I’m getting on my soapbox.

 

The media narrative about Florida State’s opt outs is frustrating. They disregarded that Georgia was also missing 27 players, including 6 starters out due to injury, in addition to 20 transfers (some including starters, and many rotational pieces). But this is the new normal in college football.

 

Florida State isn’t Charleston Southern. They were a 13-0 P5 conference champion. According to 247, they have the 20th best overall roster in the country. They have talent. To lose by 60 points in a NY6 bowl is shocking.

 

I think it exposes several cracks in college football’s foundation. The CFP has diminished non-playoff bowls.

 

Florida State is only a couple years removed from having losing seasons so Norvell had to quickly turn over the roster. Most of their opt outs were kids brought in via the portal. I support player movement and the portal, but when a team is built around mercenaries, is it surprising they all left when adversity hit by being left out of the playoff?

 

I can empathize with the players and coaches. Being an undefeated P5 champion and getting left out of the playoff sucks. That’s absolutely wild. That should be fixed next year. That doesn’t solve all the problems, though. As we watch a power shift from the Power 5 to Power 2 through consolidation and TV contracts, the value of winning one conference compared to another isn’t there. This isn’t me just being anti Big 12 or ACC, but the level of competition just isn’t there. Going back to that same 247 roster composition, 14 of the top 25 rosters in college football are SEC and B1G schools. If you want to include where those schools will play in 2024 (ie Texas going to the SEC, USC to the B1G), that number jumps to 19 of the top 25. College football’s power brokers are consolidating and quickly. Winning the Big 12 and ACC isn’t what it used to be. Especially when you look at TV contracts. There is a reason FSU is desperate to get out of their ACC agreement. They’ll be earning half of what a B1G or SEC school earns every year, over the next 13 years. That is absolutely paralyzing and would crush them going forward. SEC and B1G schools already have, and will have, many more resources available to them for recruiting, facilities, marketing, NIL, and likely collectively bargained payouts down the road. A mid tier ACC or Big 12 team will not be able to compete. It all comes back to money.

 

Then there is the issue of the calendar. Coaches are moving from Thanksgiving through the CFP, some while their current team is in the playoff. Early signing day has become the de facto signing day, so now coaches are signing kids in mid December. If you are a coordinator who gets a promotion to head coach, the calendar forces you to leave your current program because you need to build a staff and sign players. You’d be doing yourself a disservice to stick around at your current school. But it’s a disservice to your current team, too. Meanwhile, these coaches in the CFP are trying to sign players and re-recruit their own roster as kids debate hitting the portal while game planning for the playoff. The calendar needs to be rewritten top to bottom, but I don’t know what the fix is because kids need to be able to join their schools when the semester starts.

 

I think the long term fix is the top 50 or so schools that are revenue generating need to branch off from the NCAA and regulate themselves. Kids should get paid. Make them employees and collectively bargain. That would help with opt outs and hopefully prevent another 63-3 Orange Bowl (these schools can already purchase insurance for the players should they incur an injury). But that should also include stipulations to prevent annual free agency. The portal is good. NIL is good. The two combined with zero regulation leads to tampering and open free agency every few months. I can see how it’s a nightmare for coaches between needing to game plan, manage your roster, recruit high schoolers, recruit transfers, and re-recruit current players to prevent them hitting the portal. It’s too much. I’m a Georgia guy and love Coach Smart. But he is not long for this game. He doesn’t know how to give less than 110% all the time. But if you listen to his comments, he will not be like Saban or Bowden coaching until he is 70 years old. These guys are working 90-100 hour work weeks. They get paid handsomely for it. But I look at photos of Kirby Smart just eight years ago when he started at Georgia and it looks like he has aged twenty years.

 

College football needs regulation and guardrails to ensure the sport is still here in twenty years. It’s different in that there is no central organization leading the charge to stabilize it. The NCAA is powerless, the conferences are acting in their own best interests, as are the schools. It’s time to reel it in.

[MJWalker45]

Oregon has been dropping simple catches so far. This game could be a blowout if they just hold on to the ball.