College Football 2023

[tBBP]

I still await the day when the Heisman is awarded to a defensive player...or a lineman...instead of some offensive back every dang year...jus' sayin'...

[Jake3roo]

I have always had a problem with the "wins are not a QB stat" crowd that votes for guys like Daniels. While, yes, a lot of factors count into a W or an L besides QB play, team record is needed to contextualize statistics, especially in a sport like football. For instance, look at those two statlines from QBs in the 2018 NFL Playoffs:

 

QB A : 47/68, 501 YDS, 4 TD, 4 INT

QB B: 17/24, 179 YDS, 0 TD, 1 INT (163 RYDS, 1 RTD)

 

It kinda looks like the first quarterback did a lot more for his team. Sure, 4 picks, but he score 4 TDs too, and 500 yards? Man, this guy must be elite! Well, in that game, Ben Roethlisberger had 4 bad turnovers in the first 20 minutes of the game, and allowed the Browns to get out to a 28-0 lead in the first quarter, and 35-7 at the half. Big Ben then ate up soft coverage the rest of the game, the Browns almost gave it away at the end but Ben threw another interception. Despite stacking huge numbers up, his performance actively prevented his team from winning the game. That, to me, is not a good performance.

 

QB B is Lamar Jackson from that same weekend, who managed a close game well and effectively used the run game to lead his team to a victory. Yet, the stats are mediocre.

 

My point is that statistics alone, as we all know, cannot capture the performance of a player in football as well as they can in a sport like baseball. There's simply too much context that can't be ignored, too many small things players can do to help or hurt their team. And as someone who watched a lot of college football this year, and a lot of LSU football (for Malik Nabers fantasy reasons), Daniels really never showed anything special against a team that had a true defense, save for a pretty good game against Ole Miss. Penix, on the other hand, played as well as he had to against everyone he faced.

 

If you take away Daniels' games against Grambling St and Georgia St, two completely non-competitive games, as well as Penix's 2 easiest opponents, who, I guess, were Tulsa and ?Stanford on the road?, they look a lot different:

Daniels: 7-3 W-L, 193/273 C/A, 3130 YDS, 29 TD, 4 INT  and  120 for 1009 & 8 TD on the ground
Penix: 11-0 W-L, 258/391 C/A, 3440 YDS, 26 TD, 7 INT and 26 for -17 & 3 TD on the ground.

Not that big of a difference anymore. Maybe I'm just more of the mindset that being an outstanding QB doesn't have to mean racking up as many yards and touchdowns as possible, it's really more about managing the players around you and leading your team to victory, which I saw a lot more of in Penix (and quite frankly, McCarthy) than I did in Daniels.

[McCall]

9 hours ago, WestCoastBias said:

 

Like I said it was a bad year for the Heisman, no one fully grabbed the national attention like a lot of Heismans do. If Washington played on the east coast though then Penix and this Washington might of been the media darlings. Certainly no one will admit the Pac-12 was the deepest conference this year either. 

Yeah, Daniels did. Just because y'all ignored it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Penix was the favorite early on, but Daniels took over around mid-season and it wasn't even a question the rest of the way. 

[Burmy]

The reason I'm thinking it was an upset is that, from my history, the Heisman winner has always led his team to a New Year's Six game.

 

LSU's stuck in the ReliaQuest bowl (I miss when it was the Outback or even the Hall of Fame Bowl), playin' my Badgers who are rarin' for the big upset...to me, the Heisman is for the "Most VALUABLE Player," not necessarily the "BEST player."

[crashcarson15]

The Heisman isn't for the most valuable player, though — it is awarded to the most outstanding player.

 

There's a lot of stuff out there, but I have a hard time rationalizing the "Daniels shouldn't win because his team didn't go to a NY6 bowl" take (1) when the reason his team didn't go to a NY6 bowl was LSU's defense giving up a double-nickel to Ole Miss, and (2) when it is combined with "Washington did not score an offensive touchdown against a 3-9 Arizona State team".

[See Red]

On 12/11/2023 at 11:34 AM, Burmy said:

The reason I'm thinking it was an upset is that, from my history, the Heisman winner has always led his team to a New Year's Six game.

 

LSU's stuck in the ReliaQuest bowl (I miss when it was the Outback or even the Hall of Fame Bowl), playin' my Badgers who are rarin' for the big upset...to me, the Heisman is for the "Most VALUABLE Player," not necessarily the "BEST player."

Lamar Jackson won it for a Louisville team that played in the Citrus Bowl.   The award is specifically for the most OUTSTANDING player, which, to me, was Daniels. 

[DG_ThenNowForever]

I wanted it to be Penix and after Caleb, the NCAA wanted it to be Penix, but he backed into like his last 4 regular season wins.

 

He finished poorly and Daniels didn't. That's the difference.

[B-Rich]

On 12/12/2023 at 8:32 PM, See Red said:

Lamar Jackson won it for a Louisville team that played  lost to LSU in the Citrus Bowl, where he led his team to no touchdowns.   

 

Just had to put my alumni spin on that. 

[BBTV]

 

[Cujo]

8 minutes ago, BBTV said:

 

First time I've ever heard fair and logical thinking from a college head coach. This makes way too much sense for NCAA brass to actually listen to.

[McCall]

3 hours ago, Cujo said:

 

First time I've ever heard fair and logical thinking from a college head coach. This makes way too much sense for NCAA brass to actually listen to.

Well you have the NCAA President proposing a separate division for power schools (an idea stolen from me, but I'm not dwelling on it), and now the head coach of a pending-Big Ten school suggesting essentially the same thing, only more precise.  Seems to me it's a possibility.

[B-Rich]

Jayden Daniels becomes the first active, current winner of the Heisman Trophy to forgo/ opt out of/ decline to play in his team's bowl game.

 

Jayden Daniels has decided whether he will play in LSU's bowl game against Wisconsin.

 

Take that as you will. I myself decline to comment.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

8 minutes ago, B-Rich said:

Jayden Daniels becomes the first active, current winner of the Heisman Trophy to forgo/ opt out of/ decline to play in his team's bowl game.

 

Jayden Daniels has decided whether he will play in LSU's bowl game against Wisconsin.

 

Take that as you will. I myself decline to comment.

 

I don't. Give it to Penix.

[GDAWG]

Massive news coming out of the Armed Forces Bowl between Air Force and James Madison: Air Force threw the ball!

[BBTV]

I have to question why more players don't quit sooner.  Once you've solidified yourself as a top pick, even if it's by Nov 1, why not walk away then?  Why wait till the bowl game?  I wouldn't risk anything once I got myself in position to be a top pick.

[Kramerica Industries]

It's completely the right decision of any top rated prospect on a non-playoff team to opt out of the bowl game. Ever since Jaylon Smith got hurt in the Fiesta Bowl as a top-5 lock, this has become the standard practice. Can't blame any players for protecting their future over meaningless bowl games.

 

The obvious downside is that bowl games that used to mean something have now become mostly obliterated between opt outs and players hitting the transfer portal between the last reg season game and the bowl game...bowl week used to be a marquee event, now it feels like a huge waste of time, which is a shame.

[BBTV]

41 minutes ago, Kramerica Industries said:

on a non-playoff team

 

I think the playoff status of a team is irrelevant.   The player owes the school nothing.

[dont care]

10 hours ago, BBTV said:

 

I think the playoff status of a team is irrelevant.   The player owes the school nothing.

You’re right, but the players still want a national championship ring for themselves

[McCall]

10 hours ago, BBTV said:

 

I think the playoff status of a team is irrelevant.   The player owes the school nothing.

I wouldn't say "nothing". A college scholarship and 3+ years of development into the player that's being projected as a high draft pick sounds like a pretty big "something".

[BBTV]

36 minutes ago, McCall said:

I wouldn't say "nothing". A college scholarship and 3+ years of development into the player that's being projected as a high draft pick sounds like a pretty big "something".

 

I'd suggest that the revenue generated off the play of a top-pick-caliber player far outweighs the value of a scholarship that their practice, travel schedules, and other factors" make it tough to take advantage of anyway (and when you break it down, the cost of that scholarship to the school is negligible.)  A good number of them are majoring in football, to prepare them for that career.  Not trying to get into the "do they deserve to be paid" argument, I just don't feel like the scholarship means much to the tippity-top guys.

 

54 minutes ago, dont care said:

You’re right, but the players still want a national championship ring for themselves

 

True, I imagine those bragging rights do mean a lot to those guys.  I'd imagine that their agents (they're allowed to officially have them now, right?) might dissuade them, but at the very least, I think they can take out insurance policies against lost earnings due to injury (and with their NIL* and/or agencies, they can actually pay for those now.)

 

*I read that Arch Manning made $3.2M in NIL this year.  Granted a lot of that was due to his last name, but if some of these guys are making close to that, maybe that reduces the risk somewhat of playing the full season.