Washington Redtails.....Discuss

[29texan]

First time I've seen such blatant ignorance on these boards. Some of you really need to get it together.

Welcome to the internet....

Anyway, I'm not gonna say what's right or wrong with the name. It's not my place to decide what's derogatory for Native Americans since I'm NOT one (my great, great grandma was, but I've been listed as black ever since the day I was born, so I won't call myself Native American like some people try to do). All I know is, regardless of the name, I will STILL boo the out of the Washington What-evers when they come to Cowboys Stadium.

[keynote]

I agree with RGIII

Washington Redskins quarterback Robert Griffin III took to Twitter on Tuesday to complain about the “tyranny of political correctness” he believes is holding American culture “hostage.”

“In a land of freedom we are held hostage by the tyranny of political correctness,” the NFL player wrote on his official Twitter account.

He followed up the post with a definition of the word, writing: “Tyranny- ‘a condition imposed by some outside agency or force<living under the tyranny of the clock’ or political correctness…”

http://washington.cb...al-correctness/

Point of order: that article took a *huge* leap in associating RGIII's tweet with the City Council's actions.

Here's the full series of tweets:

You ever say something & people interpret it a certain way but you didn't mean it that way but meant it how you said it??? Yea...

https://twitter.com/...318775415521281

"The few" will always post pics & make fun of the injured. Don't let it cloud your judgement when it comes to the good in this world

In a land of freedom we are held hostage by the tyranny of political correctness

Some people have assumed he was referring to backlash associated w/ Broussard's statement on gay marriage; others have attributed his statement as a response to the push to rename the Redskins. I certainly don't think it's the latter, because his first tweet ("you ever say something") wouldn't make any sense in that context. But to my knowledge, he hasn't clarified his statements one way or the other.

And, later on, he retweeted this tweet:

@RGIII now ppl R using u 4 political gain. I have seen sum of the craziest things implied using ur likeness & words 4 political agendas 2day

https://twitter.com/...685157630066690

Then followed up with:

You can twist it, spin it, and try to find the basis of your next article in the words of anything that anyone says....

So, I don't think there's any evidence that RGIII's tweets are relevant to the topic at hand.

With that, back on topic. I'm a big Redskins fan, but I think Redtails is a *great* name. I don't think a team has to be located near Tuskegee to use that name, either - especially not a team that's based in the national capital.

If they actually changed the name to Redtails, I'd be the first person in line to buy new gear.

[cranium]

I know that the last time we went around on this, someone said this, but it bears repeating;

If you don't think "Redskins" is an insult, next time the local tribes in your area are gathering for a Pow Wow, attend it yourself, listen to some music, watch the dancing... then walk up to a group of young men and say, "What's up, Redskins?" After your severe beating has ended, your perspective might be different.

Well, would you go up to a group of black guys and say "What's up, Negroes?"

If not, why do we still refer to early 20th century black baseball as the Negro leagues?

I think referring to something that hasn't existed since Negro was considered a polite term has a bit to do with it.

Now if you want to talk about the "C" in NAACP, you might have a point.

It's real simple. It's called the Negro Leagues because that is what the leagues were officially called. You had the Negro American League and the Negro National League. One of the earlier major leagues was called the Eastern Colored League. You just can't go changing history after the fact to appease today's politcal correctness. It is what it is.

I've done more research on the Negro Leagues than you could ever imagine... I even made an NES rom based on teams that competed in them. Trust me, I don't need your agenda-driven "correction."

I also don't think you'd go up to a group of black guys and say, what's up African Americans?

I've found that "What's up, Mario?" or "What's up, Tahrim?" usually works best.

I tend to simply say, "What's up, gentlemen?" to any group of males, unless I know them personally. I was raised to be polite to everyone.

If by some odd quirk, the Negro Leagues still existed, they certainly would have changed the name of the leagues in the 1960s. Frankly, it is odd that the NAACP hasn't changed the 'C', but they are certainly known more by the letter combination than the full name.

[Midway]

One of the biggest Redskins fans around here... Go to all the games since I was 4, yadda yadda...

I'm completely ambivalent about the name change. I literally could not care less if they change the name. Keep my colors, songs, and city.

Now Redtails unfortunately kind of sucks. There are much better options, among them Potomacs, Federals, Warpaths, and Warpaths.

KAW-POW!

Glad I'm not the only one who made the instantaneous connection

[burgundy]

You can make some argument that "Redmen" is not as blatant a slur as "Redskins".

Especially since we still use phrases like white man and black man.

But we don't use "yellow man", which I think redmen would fall closer to.

I prefer Redskins. I hope that never goes away. It may have been a negative word for those that are either no longer alive or on their way out, but today's generation doesn't see the word used in that view. To today's society, it is nothing more than a team name with a massive fan base. I wish we could just move on.

We would if George Preston Marshall wasn't a ing racist pig and didn't deliberately select the most racist moniker for his team that he could think of.

While Marshall was a massively racist pig, saying he chose Redskins simply because it was the most racist name he could think of is rather silly. They started as the Braves because they shared a stadium with baseball's Boston Braves. When they moved in with the Boston Red Sox they couldn't be the Braves any more, but still wanted Native American imagery, thus Redskins. They didn't think about whether or not it was racist, it was just another term for Native Americans to them.

If you wanted the Native American imagery the name "Indians" works just as well for this time frame. Except for the fact it wasn't a slur back then. Ignorance is not a defense for a man whose obscene racism is as well documented as his self-awareness of being that racist.

They shared a stadium with the RED Sox, and the use of Redskins as a sports nickname already had precedence. Miami University had used the name since at least 1931.

So Redmen then. Still better than Redskins.

Or, better yet... Red Sox. If they could double-up on the Braves name and identity (as well as the Dodgers), then why not the Sox?

Red Sox would have made sense, but they apparently wanted to keep a Native American identity.

[pcgd]

How about Red Skins?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1113906/index.htm

[smith03]

love to go back to 1937 and see the team adopt the name Federals really like that one, but I don't suppose if the Redskins ever change their name they would adopt that.

[ddub53]

I know that the last time we went around on this, someone said this, but it bears repeating;

If you don't think "Redskins" is an insult, next time the local tribes in your area are gathering for a Pow Wow, attend it yourself, listen to some music, watch the dancing... then walk up to a group of young men and say, "What's up, Redskins?" After your severe beating has ended, your perspective might be different.

Well, would you go up to a group of black guys and say "What's up, Negroes?"

If not, why do we still refer to early 20th century black baseball as the Negro leagues?

I think referring to something that hasn't existed since Negro was considered a polite term has a bit to do with it.

Now if you want to talk about the "C" in NAACP, you might have a point.

It's real simple. It's called the Negro Leagues because that is what the leagues were officially called. You had the Negro American League and the Negro National League. One of the earlier major leagues was called the Eastern Colored League. You just can't go changing history after the fact to appease today's politcal correctness. It is what it is.

I've done more research on the Negro Leagues than you could ever imagine... I even made an NES rom based on teams that competed in them. Trust me, I don't need your agenda-driven "correction."

I also don't think you'd go up to a group of black guys and say, what's up African Americans?

I've found that "What's up, Mario?" or "What's up, Tahrim?" usually works best.

I'm pretty sure you haven't done more research on St. Louis black baseball than me. And I don't have an agenda. I just believe what happened in history (good, bad, and indifferent) is what happened and shouldn't be watered down to meet today's standards, that's all. It kind of skews the truth.

[illwauk]

I know that the last time we went around on this, someone said this, but it bears repeating;

If you don't think "Redskins" is an insult, next time the local tribes in your area are gathering for a Pow Wow, attend it yourself, listen to some music, watch the dancing... then walk up to a group of young men and say, "What's up, Redskins?" After your severe beating has ended, your perspective might be different.

Well, would you go up to a group of black guys and say "What's up, Negroes?"

If not, why do we still refer to early 20th century black baseball as the Negro leagues?

I think referring to something that hasn't existed since Negro was considered a polite term has a bit to do with it.

Now if you want to talk about the "C" in NAACP, you might have a point.

It's real simple. It's called the Negro Leagues because that is what the leagues were officially called. You had the Negro American League and the Negro National League. One of the earlier major leagues was called the Eastern Colored League. You just can't go changing history after the fact to appease today's politcal correctness. It is what it is.

I've done more research on the Negro Leagues than you could ever imagine... I even made an NES rom based on teams that competed in them. Trust me, I don't need your agenda-driven "correction."

I also don't think you'd go up to a group of black guys and say, what's up African Americans?

I've found that "What's up, Mario?" or "What's up, Tahrim?" usually works best.

I'm pretty sure you haven't done more research on St. Louis black baseball than me. And I don't have an agenda. I just believe what happened in history (good, bad, and indifferent) is what happened and shouldn't be watered down to meet today's standards, that's all. It kind of skews the truth.

So you couldn't have made your point without adding the bolded part? Attacking "political correctness" (whatever the hell that even means anymore) was unwarranted... especially when I was actually DEFENDING modern usage of the term "Negro Leagues."

[PoppersPop]

So I'm a card carrying Cherokee and the college I went to was founded by the Cherokee nation, had the nickname Redmen, and was changed to the Riverhawks for some goofy NCAA rule. The difference here is, that the mascot was the Redmen, because Redskins is pretty racist, as far as I'm concerned. That being said, if the name were changed, it would be pretty strange to see all the Redtails stuff where the Redskins used to be. I'd get used to it.

That being said, you see a whole lot of Cleveland Indians hats around here with a feather pinned to the button and one of Chief Wahoo's teeth painted gold. You rarely see the same treatment for Redskins merch.

Fellow NSU-alum here. I actually worked in the PR office during the name change. One problem was that all the native-related imagery had been wiped off the books. Not a lot of licensing or marketing opportunities when all you had to work with was an pair of ugly wordmarks. Another issue was how the women's athletics teams were referred to as Lady Reds. Very confusing considering the school colors are green & white. Those are relatively minor conflicts but it's odd how a D-2 university in the capitol of the Cherokee Nation which was founded as a seminary for Cherokee women and has an intrinsic connection with the Cherokee Nation was a lot quicker to retire their (less racist) Redmen moniker than a pro football club with absolutely no worthwhile connection to native american history or culture.

Plus, Redtails is a perfectly fine substitution that makes the smallest of imposition to the team's identity other than the name.

[T_Schroll]

They could rename them in honor of congress and call them Washington Corruption.

[ElTeduardo]

Or maybe the Washington Bureaucrats

[Radiohead]

This is the height of ESPN fueled PC silliness, and anyone who buys into it needs to just stay in bed all day with their legs curled up in the fetal position. Momma will be by soon to give you a bottle of formula.

I'm part Irish, and if there was a 60 year old team named the Boston Drunkards, I'd have a laugh and move on. But on second thought, the short old guy with the cane on the Celtics logo is a bit offensive to me. I demand a new logo....

[rams80]

This is the height of ESPN fueled PC silliness, and anyone who buys into it needs to just stay in bed all day with their legs curled up in the fetal position. Momma will be by soon to give you a bottle of formula.

I'm part Irish, and if there was a 60 year old team named the Boston Drunkards, I'd have a laugh and move on. But on second thought, the short old guy with the cane on the Celtics logo is a bit offensive to me. I demand a new logo....

Celtic isn't a racial slur you Mick . (See what I did there?)

[Chromatic]

This is the height of ESPN fueled PC silliness, and anyone who buys into it needs to just stay in bed all day with their legs curled up in the fetal position. Momma will be by soon to give you a bottle of formula.

I'm part Irish, and if there was a 60 year old team named the Boston Drunkards, I'd have a laugh and move on. But on second thought, the short old guy with the cane on the Celtics logo is a bit offensive to me. I demand a new logo....

Celtic isn't a racial slur you Mick . (See what I did there?)

He's not talking about the name. He's talking about the logo. And he has a point. If you insist the Redskins name be changed then why wouldn't you want the Celtics logo changed? I can definitely see how some people would find it offensive. But nobody is clamoring to change that,

[rams80]

This is the height of ESPN fueled PC silliness, and anyone who buys into it needs to just stay in bed all day with their legs curled up in the fetal position. Momma will be by soon to give you a bottle of formula.

I'm part Irish, and if there was a 60 year old team named the Boston Drunkards, I'd have a laugh and move on. But on second thought, the short old guy with the cane on the Celtics logo is a bit offensive to me. I demand a new logo....

Celtic isn't a racial slur you Mick . (See what I did there?)

He's not talking about the name. He's talking about the logo. And he has a point. If you insist the Redskins name be changed then why wouldn't you want the Celtics logo changed? I can definitely see how some people would find it offensive. But nobody is clamoring to change that,

I know you're a Vancouver fan and therefore terminally obtuse, but he is talking about the moniker.

[Coast2CoastAM2006]

just call them the Redskin Peanuts or rednuts if you choose.

[wonderbread]

I don't like all this talk about changing the redskins name, it has been around for so long i really couldn't see them being anything else. sure they name is derogatory but their logo is iconic, and shows the Native Americans in a very dignifying way. I am more upset with the chief wahoo cartoon, I find it way more offensive than redskins. If the Redskins were ever required to change their name I'd want them to change it to something that would still keep the same logo's and color scheme, like warriors, or braves, or Potomacs, I dont like the name redtails because of that.

[CharlotteIllini88]

This topic amuses me. They're currently named after Indians, but that's offensive so they need to change it. So they're proposing they change the name to a group of black guys instead? But, you may say, Redskins is derogatory toward Indians and Redtails would be honoring a group of African-Americans. But my response would be that Chief Illiniwek was honoring native Americans too, that it was an honored symbol, yet it was retired. But then I'm back ranting about Chief Illiniwek again...

[mcrosby]

I've got a Redtails concept going on over in the Concept forum. This is what I have so far, feel free to stop over there and leave your comments.