2014 MLB Changes (logo, uniform wise, etc)

[BigBubba]

There's a reason why they came over here by the boatload and it's because they're literally the red-headed step children and the laughing stock of the British Isles.

Or, you know, a potato famine. Either or.

[Hat Boy]

It's actually a very interesting history that many people don't realize happened not to long ago. (persecution based on being a primarily Catholic ethnicity, forcing them to clean out swamps, etc).

I'm sorry. What is this?

[guest23]

There's a reason why they came over here by the boatload and it's because they're literally the red-headed step children and the laughing stock of the British Isles.

Or, you know, a potato famine. Either or.

Exactly. Why travel thousands of miles west across an ocean when you could have only gone hundreds east? Oh yeah. Nobody wanted the Irish.

[Chicageaux]

I think a lot of people are taking a semantic argument which in my opinion, is just plain silly. Yeah, a leprechaun is a mythical creature, not an actual Irish person. You guys are basically stating that just because it's a leprechaun doesn't mean it's an Irish person, per say. However, Irish people around the world still continue to be portrayed as Leprechauns (Red Hair, beards, alcoholics, etc). Like it or not, Irish people are given a "Leprechaun stereotype" just as much as Chinese people are given the cross-eyed pointed hat look or the red-skinned Indian look.

Sure, Leprechaun doesn't hold as much of a connection to an actual Irish person compared to completely portraying an Indian person or an Asian person, however, it still falls in the same boat as the stereotype is still used on a regular basis. Irish people have had a terrible history in America, similarly to how bad Asian and Native Americans have had. It's actually a very interesting history that many people don't realize happened not to long ago. (persecution based on being a primarily Catholic ethnicity, forcing them to clean out swamps, etc).

Like I said before, the difference is that you don't really hear Irish people having a fit over the way Leprechauns are portrayed. Whether you believe the "fit" said ethnicity/race is throwing is legitimate or not, it's true.

Having a grandmother that is 100% Irish and being 25% Irish myself, I'm well aware of the persecution that the Irish people faced. And yes, you're right correct that Irish people had it bad when first coming over here to America. But you know who else faced some rough times? The Polish, the Italians, and every other nationality that first come over here. The reason the Irish had it so bad early on was exactly what everyone else already said, they were the "redheaded stepchild" of the British Isles. They were the crazy "redneck" drunks that didn't care if loved them or hated them. They did their own thing. Just as every other nationality did when they settled over here in big cities. That's why cities have their Little Italy's and Chinatowns. That's the way things went in the early 1900s.

To suggest the Irish faced similar persecution to Asians is wrong. The Irish weren't sent to internment camps during World War II. To suggest the Irish faced similar persecution to Native Americans is just plain asinine. Last time I checked, the Irish weren't forced to walk west in droves by America so they could fulfill their Manifest Destiny. You don't see reservation camps of Irish people around the country. The fact that JFK, who was 100% Irish, became President should be enough of an example that the Irish's persecution here in America was no where near "similar" to what certain minorities faced here.

Yes, you're correct, the Irish people don't pitch a fit about Leprechauns being used as a symbol for Ireland because honestly who cares. I fulfilled the stereotype last weekend by getting drunk and I'll probably fulfill the stereotype again this weekend by getting drunk again. There's a huge difference between throwing a leprechaun on a hat to celebrate St. Patrick's Day and having a caricature of a red-faced Indian as your team's logo. The reason you don't hear the Irish throwing a fit is because there is nothing to throw a fit about.

It's actually a very interesting history that many people don't realize happened not to long ago. (persecution based on being a primarily Catholic ethnicity, forcing them to clean out swamps, etc).

I'm sorry. What is this?

Why do you think they call me Bayou Jim?

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to the topic, I asked a couple weeks ago if anyone knew if the new BP hats were made in the US or made in China like last. I've bought two hats since asking the question, one in person at Lids and a different one online, and both fit me at my normal size. Just a heads up to anyone looking to buy one.

[phutmasterflex]

Welp, it looks like New Era done f***ed up their order of the Australia Series caps to Hat Club by putting the patch on the wrong side.

I'm not sure if I should be annoyed because the D Backs cap I got is incorrect, or happy because this is a somewhat rare find.

Hat Club got back to me on Twitter after I wrote my blog post on it and they explained why theirs is different -- it was what they originally planned: http://butattheendoftheday.com/2014/03/18/did-new-era-give-hat-club-the-wrong-caps-to-sell/

[TheStoicPaisano]

[Anubis2051]

To suggest the Irish faced similar persecution to Asians is wrong. The Irish weren't sent to internment camps during World War II. To suggest the Irish faced similar persecution to Native Americans is just plain asinine. Last time I checked, the Irish weren't forced to walk west in droves by America so they could fulfill their Manifest Destiny. You don't see reservation camps of Irish people around the country. The fact that JFK, who was 100% Irish, became President should be enough of an example that the Irish's persecution here in America was no where near "similar" to what certain minorities faced here

I just want to point out one anachronism here - The Irish, who were officially neutral in WWII, were never interned, however there were also Italians and Germans interned, among them Joe DiMaggio's father. It wasn't just the Japanese.

[Chicageaux]

I can get in deeper to how the Chinese were used as slaves in the West to build the railroad if that's a better example. That fits more with the logo that the NYPD posted anyways. I'd much rather talk about baseball though.

[guest23]

I can get in deeper to how the Chinese were used as slaves in the West to build the railroad if that's a better example. That fits more with the logo that the NYPD posted anyways. I'd much rather talk about baseball though.

Those chinese did a damn fine job too btw. Many of those tracks are still in use today.

[Soarindude]

double post

[Soarindude]

I think a lot of people are taking a semantic argument which in my opinion, is just plain silly. Yeah, a leprechaun is a mythical creature, not an actual Irish person. You guys are basically stating that just because it's a leprechaun doesn't mean it's an Irish person, per say. However, Irish people around the world still continue to be portrayed as Leprechauns (Red Hair, beards, alcoholics, etc). Like it or not, Irish people are given a "Leprechaun stereotype" just as much as Chinese people are given the cross-eyed pointed hat look or the red-skinned Indian look.

Sure, Leprechaun doesn't hold as much of a connection to an actual Irish person compared to completely portraying an Indian person or an Asian person, however, it still falls in the same boat as the stereotype is still used on a regular basis. Irish people have had a terrible history in America, similarly to how bad Asian and Native Americans have had. It's actually a very interesting history that many people don't realize happened not to long ago. (persecution based on being a primarily Catholic ethnicity, forcing them to clean out swamps, etc).

Like I said before, the difference is that you don't really hear Irish people having a fit over the way Leprechauns are portrayed. Whether you believe the "fit" said ethnicity/race is throwing is legitimate or not, it's true.

Having a grandmother that is 100% Irish and being 25% Irish myself, I'm well aware of the persecution that the Irish people faced. And yes, you're right correct that Irish people had it bad when first coming over here to America. But you know who else faced some rough times? The Polish, the Italians, and every other nationality that first come over here. The reason the Irish had it so bad early on was exactly what everyone else already said, they were the "redheaded stepchild" of the British Isles. They were the crazy "redneck" drunks that didn't care if loved them or hated them. They did their own thing. Just as every other nationality did when they settled over here in big cities. That's why cities have their Little Italy's and Chinatowns. That's the way things went in the early 1900s.

To suggest the Irish faced similar persecution to Asians is wrong. The Irish weren't sent to internment camps during World War II. To suggest the Irish faced similar persecution to Native Americans is just plain asinine. Last time I checked, the Irish weren't forced to walk west in droves by America so they could fulfill their Manifest Destiny. You don't see reservation camps of Irish people around the country. The fact that JFK, who was 100% Irish, became President should be enough of an example that the Irish's persecution here in America was no where near "similar" to what certain minorities faced here.

Yes, you're correct, the Irish people don't pitch a fit about Leprechauns being used as a symbol for Ireland because honestly who cares. I fulfilled the stereotype last weekend by getting drunk and I'll probably fulfill the stereotype again this weekend by getting drunk again. There's a huge difference between throwing a leprechaun on a hat to celebrate St. Patrick's Day and having a caricature of a red-faced Indian as your team's logo. The reason you don't hear the Irish throwing a fit is because there is nothing to throw a fit about.

It's actually a very interesting history that many people don't realize happened not to long ago. (persecution based on being a primarily Catholic ethnicity, forcing them to clean out swamps, etc).

I'm sorry. What is this?

Why do you think they call me Bayou Jim?

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to the topic, I asked a couple weeks ago if anyone knew if the new BP hats were made in the US or made in China like last. I've bought two hats since asking the question, one in person at Lids and a different one online, and both fit me at my normal size. Just a heads up to anyone looking to buy one.

Sweet, my mom's side is 25% Irish and 8% alien. I really could care less where your great-great grandparents came from, that doesn't make you any more knowledgeable about this topic in any way whatsoever. Sure, Irish people didn't have it as hard as the other races you referred to, however, they came from a rough historical background in the United States. My point was, many people argue that because the Indians came from a rough background, it is inappropriate to portray them in a negative manner. Regardless of how terrible the history was of their ethnicity, they still are being portrayed in a stereotype way. I'm not sure what a holocaust has to do with that. Case in point, Leprechauns is portraying a negative stereotype on Irish people. Different cultures have different mindsets. As you stated before, Irish people do not see the need to attack the stereotype. They could care less, and I applaud that in them. There historical roots have taught them that a silly negative stereotype that is filtered through the media constantly is the least of their worries. There is far other things worth worrying about. There is a minority of Native Americans (as well as a politically correct movement from white people) that feel the portrayal is inappropriate and offensive. Thus, those people believe it isn't anything to ignore. Whether that is okay or not, that's really unimportant for this conversation. The conversation is that some of you people don't see the irony in how it's okay for Irish people to be portrayed in a certain way, while Native Americans or Asians cannot be.

Irish people cleaned swamps and other wetland areas infested with disease, snakes, alligators, crocodiles, etc. They took those jobs because they were the only people that would take those jobs. Americans wouldn't hire Irish people to other jobs based off the perception of Irish people at this time. These people were hard-workers, they did whatever it took to make a living here in America.

[Chicageaux]

I can get in deeper to how the Chinese were used as slaves in the West to build the railroad if that's a better example. That fits more with the logo that the NYPD posted anyways. I'd much rather talk about baseball though.

Those chinese did a damn fine job too btw. Many of those tracks are still in use today.

Yes they did! Nothing like good ol' braun and steel to get things done.

I think a lot of people are taking a semantic argument which in my opinion, is just plain silly. Yeah, a leprechaun is a mythical creature, not an actual Irish person. You guys are basically stating that just because it's a leprechaun doesn't mean it's an Irish person, per say. However, Irish people around the world still continue to be portrayed as Leprechauns (Red Hair, beards, alcoholics, etc). Like it or not, Irish people are given a "Leprechaun stereotype" just as much as Chinese people are given the cross-eyed pointed hat look or the red-skinned Indian look.

Sure, Leprechaun doesn't hold as much of a connection to an actual Irish person compared to completely portraying an Indian person or an Asian person, however, it still falls in the same boat as the stereotype is still used on a regular basis. Irish people have had a terrible history in America, similarly to how bad Asian and Native Americans have had. It's actually a very interesting history that many people don't realize happened not to long ago. (persecution based on being a primarily Catholic ethnicity, forcing them to clean out swamps, etc).

Like I said before, the difference is that you don't really hear Irish people having a fit over the way Leprechauns are portrayed. Whether you believe the "fit" said ethnicity/race is throwing is legitimate or not, it's true.

See Above Quote

It's actually a very interesting history that many people don't realize happened not to long ago. (persecution based on being a primarily Catholic ethnicity, forcing them to clean out swamps, etc).

I'm sorry. What is this?

Why do you think they call me Bayou Jim?

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to the topic, I asked a couple weeks ago if anyone knew if the new BP hats were made in the US or made in China like last. I've bought two hats since asking the question, one in person at Lids and a different one online, and both fit me at my normal size. Just a heads up to anyone looking to buy one.

The conversation is that some of you people don't see the irony in how it's okay for Irish people to be portrayed in a certain way, while Native Americans or Asians cannot be.

Explain to me how Mr. Met dressed like a leprechaun is a negative stereotype on Irish people. What I think you fail to understand is that a leprechaun isn't a representation of a group of people, it's a symbol for St. Patrick's day just like a four leaf clover. A leprechaun comes from Irish folklore. Does a four leaf clover also offend you? I mean the Irish aren't green and aren't plants so it must be a poor representation of the people of Ireland. If they changed their name to the New York Micks and threw a drunk on the the hat, you would have a case, but instead you're reaching for straws. You've even tried to downplay yourself by practically saying, "It's not something that's a big deal, but it's still something."

We both agree the Irish people faced persecution. We're obviously in disagreement over it being on the same level as Native Americans and a Chinese logo. The Mets made the logo as a representation for St. Patrick's Day. Since you refuse to understand the difference between Chief Wahoo, a logo made to look like a stereotypical asian man, and a logo done for a holiday, I refuse to continue to derail this thread with you.

[cappital92]

The Orioles were wearing their St.Patrick's Day hats today, Not really sure why.

Of course, thanks to this logo the team used to have, am I the only person who thinks the O's could pull off green as a third color? Maybe just some green trim around the script and numbers, nothing crazy.

[The Mojo Maniac]

The Orioles were wearing their St.Patrick's Day hats today, Not really sure why.

Of course, thanks to this logo the team used to have, am I the only person who thinks the O's could pull off green as a third color? Maybe just some green trim around the script and numbers, nothing crazy.

No thanks. That logo was a relic of the 90s: an unnecessary color added, thick drop shadow and not even really matching the team's uniforms at the time, which had a black "Orioles" script rather than orange.

If green somehow did become a third color, I think most O's fans would become ill like the bird in this other notorious logo:

[The_Admiral]

Irish people cleaned swamps and other wetland areas infested with disease, snakes, alligators, crocodiles, etc. They took those jobs because they were the only people that would take those jobs.

And thus began Charlie Work.

[Soarindude]

I'm not sure you understand what I'm saying. a stereotype for Irish people is that they resemble (or are) Leprechauns. Fictitious or not, it's still a comparison they get a lot. Not to the same level of extent that Indians do, or Asians do, but still, the Leprechaun is a "harmless" stereotype for Irish people. Much the same as how Chief Wahoo is a "harmless" stereotype of Native Americans.

[pcgd]

But here's the problem, a Leprechaun is NOT a stereotype for Irish people. Its a symbol of Ireland/St. Patrick's Day.

That's like saying Uncle Sam is a stereotype for Americans.

[BadSeed84]

This isn't getting ridiculous at all.

[Gothamite]

This isn't getting ridiculous at all.

Yeah, it usually does, as the only ways to justify Wahoo (other than a bald appeal to history) involve bizarre twists in both logic and rhetoric.

[BadSeed84]

The guy already shelled out his $30+ bucks for a chief wahoo hat, so its not going to make a difference to the Indians or new era for that matter what he does with the hat.

Same with the jersey's (I would think you would buy a replica instead since those don't have sleeve patches, saves you money and time).