The Big Ol' Counterfeit Jersey Thread

[guest23]

that's a really good argument, jigokusabre... and i'm an owner of a few knockoffs that sees both sides of the argument.

There's only one argument and you'e on the wrong side of it.

[ColeJ]

i've also downloaded a few albums in my life, and downloaded a movie that i just as well could have rented...

i sleep okay at night, and don't care if that bothers anyone else.

the statement stands.

claiming to collect jerseys, but having your collection be counterfeits, is exactly like having a collection of baseball cards that you print on your own printer. it's silly, and i'd call it a crappy collection.

that said, buying a knockoff jersey to wear casually is more like printing out a poster of your favorite movie or your favorite painting to hang in your office. it's not as fancy or prestigious as the real thing, and it doesn't allow the owners/artists/actors to profit... but not everyone really cares about that.

obviously most people here do. and i respect that.

99% of my aversion to counterfeits is actually quality and accuracy. you hand me a jersey that looks good enough to be legit, and i'd wear it. it's rare to find, but it exists... and it's not that big of a deal to me.

that's why despite my love of this forum and this community, this thread annoys me to no end. it's just a bunch of holier than thou lars ulrichs piling on every time anyone posts anything.

[guest23]

i've also downloaded a few albums in my life, and downloaded a movie that i just as well could have rented...

i sleep okay at night, and don't care if that bothers anyone else.

the statement stands.

claiming to collect jerseys, but having your collection be counterfeits, is exactly like having a collection of baseball cards that you print on your own printer. it's silly, and i'd call it a crappy collection.

that said, buying a knockoff jersey to wear casually is more like printing out a poster of your favorite movie or your favorite painting to hang in your office. it's not as fancy or prestigious as the real thing, and it doesn't allow the owners/artists/actors to profit... but not everyone really cares about that.

obviously most people here do. and i respect that.

99% of my aversion to counterfeits is actually quality and accuracy. you hand me a jersey that looks good enough to be legit, and i'd wear it. it's rare to find, but it exists... and it's not that big of a deal to me.

that's why despite my love of this forum and this community, this thread annoys me to no end. it's just a bunch of holier than thou lars ulrichs piling on every time anyone posts anything.

Theft is theft...if you like paying for and wearing counterfeit goods more power to you...just because you didn't steal the design and manufacture a copy yourself you are still within an arms length of the transaction...the other point being the authorities have the right to confiscate your knock-off jersey from right off your back if deemed counterfeit.

There's a decent documentary on cnbc on knock off goods and what they show is a huge sting operation where both the buyer and seller are arrested. You could maybe learn a thing or two from watching it.

In regard to metallica, they own all of their copyrights outright which is very uncommon for a band which is why they were so pissed. If you saw a few million $ of sales being siphoned off from from your business you'd be pissed too.

[jigokusabre]

Media is an experience. You watch the movie, play the video game, read the book, listen to the music. The only reason to have the disc (or purchase the iTunes license) is as a vehicle for acquiring the media. Copies of that media are functionally the same no matter how that copy is acquired. An iTunes mp3 is exactly the same as a ripped mp3 from a CD. There's no loss of authenticity when you copy it (because all versions of a CD/DVD are simply copies anyway).

We can get into the ethics of spending money to support orginizations, but it misses the point. My argument isn't morality, it's about authenticity.

A jersey is a phyiscal thing that either is authentic, or it is not. Either it was made by Nike (or Reebok or Majestic) or is was not. It either uses the official wordmarks, logos, number designs, or it does not. Even if a jersey was expertly crafted by invested artisans with high-quality materials (and let's face it, they are not), it will never have authenticity. If you don't want to pay for authentic jerseys (and let me stress, $300 for essentially a shirt IS insane), then you can still get authentic gear. They sell shirts and replica jerseys and caps an all sorts of other things you can wear that say "I'm a fan of [insert team here]."

The only thing that a fake jersey can do that a simple t-shirt cannot is say, "I am such a fan that I spent $300 on this jersey." Which is (of course) not true. That is the essence of being a phoney.

[Geoff]

i've also downloaded a few albums in my life, and downloaded a movie that i just as well could have rented...

I've thought about this a couple times before. Does it make someone a hypocrite to download music while chastising someone for buying a knockoff jerseys?

Short answer: No!

Long answer: Musician, both on major and independent levels, make the vast majority of the money from things other than music sales. They get so little money from stuff sold in stores or online. Merchandise sales, record sales at shows, and shows themselves bring in far more money. Hell, I know of several musicians/bands that tell their fans to download and if they want to help out the band, buy merch/tickets.

Do designers have the ability to go on tour and sell merch/tickets to make money? No.

[shaydre1019]

i've also downloaded a few albums in my life, and downloaded a movie that i just as well could have rented...

I've thought about this a couple times before. Does it make someone a hypocrite to download music while chastising someone for buying a knockoff jerseys?

Short answer: No!

Long answer: Musician, both on major and independent levels, make the vast majority of the money from things other than music sales. They get so little money from stuff sold in stores or online. Merchandise sales, record sales at shows, and shows themselves bring in far more money. Hell, I know of several musicians/bands that tell their fans to download and if they want to help out the band, buy merch/tickets.

Do designers have the ability to go on tour and sell merch/tickets to make money? No.

I have a question. Do designers make royalties for the number of jerseys sold? And I so does it vary from company to company?

[sportstar1212]

i've also downloaded a few albums in my life, and downloaded a movie that i just as well could have rented...

I've thought about this a couple times before. Does it make someone a hypocrite to download music while chastising someone for buying a knockoff jerseys?

Short answer: No!

Long answer: Musician, both on major and independent levels, make the vast majority of the money from things other than music sales. They get so little money from stuff sold in stores or online. Merchandise sales, record sales at shows, and shows themselves bring in far more money. Hell, I know of several musicians/bands that tell their fans to download and if they want to help out the band, buy merch/tickets.

Do designers have the ability to go on tour and sell merch/tickets to make money? No.

I have a question. Do designers make royalties for the number of jerseys sold? And I so does it vary from company to company?

The teams make royalties, not the designers.

[jigokusabre]

i've also downloaded a few albums in my life, and downloaded a movie that i just as well could have rented...

I've thought about this a couple times before. Does it make someone a hypocrite to download music while chastising someone for buying a knockoff jerseys?

Short answer: No!

Long answer: Musician, both on major and independent levels, make the vast majority of the money from things other than music sales. They get so little money from stuff sold in stores or online. Merchandise sales, record sales at shows, and shows themselves bring in far more money. Hell, I know of several musicians/bands that tell their fans to download and if they want to help out the band, buy merch/tickets.

Do designers have the ability to go on tour and sell merch/tickets to make money? No.

I have a question. Do designers make royalties for the number of jerseys sold? And I so does it vary from company to company?

Designers are paid for their work. From that point, the team owns all the rights to the logo/jersey/wordmark.

[youcan'tseeme]

I'd say it is more along the lines of band x creates an album, I record my own versions of the songs on the said album. I then burn my version of tr album and sell it at half the price of the real one and pass it off as authentic.

[Geoff]

i've also downloaded a few albums in my life, and downloaded a movie that i just as well could have rented...

I've thought about this a couple times before. Does it make someone a hypocrite to download music while chastising someone for buying a knockoff jerseys?

Short answer: No!

Long answer: Musician, both on major and independent levels, make the vast majority of the money from things other than music sales. They get so little money from stuff sold in stores or online. Merchandise sales, record sales at shows, and shows themselves bring in far more money. Hell, I know of several musicians/bands that tell their fans to download and if they want to help out the band, buy merch/tickets.

Do designers have the ability to go on tour and sell merch/tickets to make money? No.

I have a question. Do designers make royalties for the number of jerseys sold? And I so does it vary from company to company?

Designers are paid for their work. From that point, the team owns all the rights to the logo/jersey/wordmark.

So because the designer doesn't make royalties so it's ok to buy knockoffs? If anything, the fact that the team makes the money and not the designer should make fans want to buy the real deal more. The whole "I like this team, let me not give them money and buy this POS over here," thought process makes no effing sense.

And here's the gist of my opinion on fakes: 'em. those who make them. those who knowingly buy them. And those who defend these dumb decisions vehemently.

Have a nice day to everyone else.

[xmichaelp]

i've also downloaded a few albums in my life, and downloaded a movie that i just as well could have rented...

I've thought about this a couple times before. Does it make someone a hypocrite to download music while chastising someone for buying a knockoff jerseys?

Short answer: No!

Long answer: Musician, both on major and independent levels, make the vast majority of the money from things other than music sales. They get so little money from stuff sold in stores or online. Merchandise sales, record sales at shows, and shows themselves bring in far more money. Hell, I know of several musicians/bands that tell their fans to download and if they want to help out the band, buy merch/tickets.

Do designers have the ability to go on tour and sell merch/tickets to make money? No.

I have a question. Do designers make royalties for the number of jerseys sold? And I so does it vary from company to company?

Designers are paid for their work. From that point, the team owns all the rights to the logo/jersey/wordmark.

So because the designer doesn't make royalties so it's ok to buy knockoffs?

Uhh, when did he say that?

And to contribute to the thread, I'm not really sure how I feel about fakes. I mean I personally wouldn't wear one but i also don't wear jerseys anyways, that's just me. If people want to walk around looking ridiculous then more power to them. I always laugh when I see a fake because they look so bad, I don't even have to be familiar with the team or even the sport for that matter to be able to spot a fake jersey from a mile away.

I lean towards the belief that the people who buy fakes for the most part wouldn't pay 250 for a real one if the option to buy a fake didn't exist at all, so the NFL isn't losing out on too much profit. I mean the people who search google for "cheap nfl jersey website" probably wouldn't in a million years fork out hundreds for a jersey if that was their only option for a jersey.

[charger77]

i've also downloaded a few albums in my life, and downloaded a movie that i just as well could have rented...

I've thought about this a couple times before. Does it make someone a hypocrite to download music while chastising someone for buying a knockoff jerseys?

Short answer: No!

Long answer: Musician, both on major and independent levels, make the vast majority of the money from things other than music sales. They get so little money from stuff sold in stores or online. Merchandise sales, record sales at shows, and shows themselves bring in far more money. Hell, I know of several musicians/bands that tell their fans to download and if they want to help out the band, buy merch/tickets.

Do designers have the ability to go on tour and sell merch/tickets to make money? No.

I have a question. Do designers make royalties for the number of jerseys sold? And I so does it vary from company to company?

Designers are paid for their work. From that point, the team owns all the rights to the logo/jersey/wordmark.

So because the designer doesn't make royalties so it's ok to buy knockoffs?

Uhh, when did he say that?

And to contribute to the thread, I'm not really sure how I feel about fakes. I mean I personally wouldn't wear one but i also don't wear jerseys anyways, that's just me. If people want to walk around looking ridiculous then more power to them. I always laugh when I see a fake because they look so bad, I don't even have to be familiar with the team or even the sport for that matter to be able to spot a fake jersey from a mile away.

I lean towards the belief that the people who buy fakes for the most part wouldn't pay 250 for a real one if the option to buy a fake didn't exist at all, so the NFL isn't losing out on too much profit. I mean the people who search google for "cheap nfl jersey website" probably wouldn't in a million years fork out hundreds for a jersey if that was their only option for a jersey.

Possibly, but they could have used the money the spent on a fake to by a licensed t-shirt, sweatshirt, etc... from nfl.com or any licensed retailer.

[guest23]

i've also downloaded a few albums in my life, and downloaded a movie that i just as well could have rented...

I've thought about this a couple times before. Does it make someone a hypocrite to download music while chastising someone for buying a knockoff jerseys?

Short answer: No!

Long answer: Musician, both on major and independent levels, make the vast majority of the money from things other than music sales. They get so little money from stuff sold in stores or online. Merchandise sales, record sales at shows, and shows themselves bring in far more money. Hell, I know of several musicians/bands that tell their fans to download and if they want to help out the band, buy merch/tickets.

Do designers have the ability to go on tour and sell merch/tickets to make money? No.

I have a question. Do designers make royalties for the number of jerseys sold? And I so does it vary from company to company?

Designers are paid for their work. From that point, the team owns all the rights to the logo/jersey/wordmark.

So because the designer doesn't make royalties so it's ok to buy knockoffs?

Uhh, when did he say that?

And to contribute to the thread, I'm not really sure how I feel about fakes. I mean I personally wouldn't wear one but i also don't wear jerseys anyways, that's just me. If people want to walk around looking ridiculous then more power to them. I always laugh when I see a fake because they look so bad, I don't even have to be familiar with the team or even the sport for that matter to be able to spot a fake jersey from a mile away.

I lean towards the belief that the people who buy fakes for the most part wouldn't pay 250 for a real one if the option to buy a fake didn't exist at all, so the NFL isn't losing out on too much profit. I mean the people who search google for "cheap nfl jersey website" probably wouldn't in a million years fork out hundreds for a jersey if that was their only option for a jersey.

Possibly, but they could have used the money the spent on a fake to by a licensed t-shirt, sweatshirt, etc... from nfl.com or any licensed retailer.

or even DIY which I believe is legal as long as you don't resell it

[charger77]

Yep, just as good as the real deal

[Sodboy13]

Yep, just as good as the real deal

Making a counterfeit of a jersey the team wore in warmups to auction off for cancer charities. Yay, it's a new low!

[9erssteve]

This whole thread/argument could be put to bed in one fell swoop if the MANUFACTURERS would do ONE simple thing... LOWER THE PRICE.

As has been stated on this page $300 for a freaking shirt is practically unjustifiable. I dont care how much "innovation" or "technology" is involved at the end of the day it's a mesh jersey with some numbers stitched on, it's NOT worth $300+. That right there is WHY counterfiets exist. No other reason. If AUTHENTICS cost $150 or less MORE would be sold, and there would be less of a market for counterfiet jerseys.

It's simple greed that's fueling the whole cycle. I'd be really interested to know just how much more expesive it is to produce a Nike Limited jersey over a Gameday Replica, and likewise how much more expensive it is to produce an Elite over a Limited, cos I'll bet a $ to pinch of Snuff it's PENNIES difference yet the difference in retail price is MASSIVE.

If Nike, or any other manufacturer wanted to shut down counterfieting over night lowering their costs is all they'd have to do. I firmly believe it wouldn't even affect their bottom line as the increase in sales brought about by people who could now easily afford to buy more would more than ensure that their profits stayed healthy.

Yes counterfeiting is illegal, but manufacturers have made the rod for thier own backs by ramping up the price of merchandise ludacrously in the last 10 to 15 years so they've no one to blame but themselves. They cant in clear conscience effectively ripp off the paying customer then cry foul when someone does it to them, that's the dictionary definition of hypocrisy.

[charger77]

I remember when I was a kid how I had to settle for buying team t-shirts with my lawn cutting money before I could afford to buy jerseys.

I'm pretty confident that if legit jersey cost only $50, that the $25-$30 fakes would still sell.

[OnWis97]

I remember when I was a kid how I had to settle for buying team t-shirts with my lawn cutting money before I could afford to buy jerseys.

I'm pretty confident that if legit jersey cost only $50, that the $25-$30 fakes would still sell.

Maybe maybe not. But that's not really important. There are a lot of items I'd like to have and I wish the producers would lower the price. I absolutely fail to see how a price that is perceived as too high (and, FWIW I agree) justifies IP theft. Yeah, they are overpriced. Fortunately, they are also a luxury item that I really do not need to have in order to 1) survive and 2) be happy. I am sending a message to the leagues by not buying their over-priced items. If they were more appropriately priced, I may buy one occasionally. But I don't guy buy some goofy-looking (or, in some cases, pretty decent looking) knock off to "send a message" (that's not the reason anyone buys them...it's to save a buck).

There is a process. A creative design effort, etc. It absolutely drives me nuts that people just wait around for someone to do the work and then essentially "photocopy" that work and make money off of it. How someone finds that anything other than "wrong" truly escapes me.

Yes, I agree that the prices are too high. But it does not justify the support of IP theft.

This whole thread/argument could be put to bed in one fell swoop if the MANUFACTURERS would do ONE simple thing... LOWER THE PRICE.

As has been stated on this page $300 for a freaking shirt is practically unjustifiable. I dont care how much "innovation" or "technology" is involved at the end of the day it's a mesh jersey with some numbers stitched on, it's NOT worth $300+. That right there is WHY counterfiets exist. No other reason. If AUTHENTICS cost $150 or less MORE would be sold, and there would be less of a market for counterfiet jerseys.

It's simple greed that's fueling the whole cycle. I'd be really interested to know just how much more expesive it is to produce a Nike Limited jersey over a Gameday Replica, and likewise how much more expensive it is to produce an Elite over a Limited, cos I'll bet a $ to pinch of Snuff it's PENNIES difference yet the difference in retail price is MASSIVE.

If Nike, or any other manufacturer wanted to shut down counterfieting over night lowering their costs is all they'd have to do. I firmly believe it wouldn't even affect their bottom line as the increase in sales brought about by people who could now easily afford to buy more would more than ensure that their profits stayed healthy.

Yes counterfeiting is illegal, but manufacturers have made the rod for thier own backs by ramping up the price of merchandise ludacrously in the last 10 to 15 years so they've no one to blame but themselves. They cant in clear conscience effectively ripp off the paying customer then cry foul when someone does it to them, that's the dictionary definition of hypocrisy.

Greed? Is there no greed involved when leaches copy someone else's work and sell it as their own. The buyer is rewarding laziness and greed.

As for "blaming themselves", so the manufacturers are essentially like the woman that gets raped...she was on her own and was wearing a short skirt, so we blame the victim (and please think this through...I am not equating IP theft with rape...but I am pointing out that the IP owner is the victim of counterfeiting and blaming the victim is pretty lazy)

[9erssteve]

I remember when I was a kid how I had to settle for buying team t-shirts with my lawn cutting money before I could afford to buy jerseys.

I'm pretty confident that if legit jersey cost only $50, that the $25-$30 fakes would still sell.

Maybe maybe not. But that's not really important. There are a lot of items I'd like to have and I wish the producers would lower the price. I absolutely fail to see how a price that is perceived as too high (and, FWIW I agree) justifies IP theft. Yeah, they are overpriced. Fortunately, they are also a luxury item that I really do not need to have in order to 1) survive and 2) be happy. I am sending a message to the leagues by not buying their over-priced items. If they were more appropriately priced, I may buy one occasionally. But I don't guy buy some goofy-looking (or, in some cases, pretty decent looking) knock off to "send a message" (that's not the reason anyone buys them...it's to save a buck).

There is a process. A creative design effort, etc. It absolutely drives me nuts that people just wait around for someone to do the work and then essentially "photocopy" that work and make money off of it. How someone finds that anything other than "wrong" truly escapes me.

Yes, I agree that the prices are too high. But it does not justify the support of IP theft.

This whole thread/argument could be put to bed in one fell swoop if the MANUFACTURERS would do ONE simple thing... LOWER THE PRICE.

As has been stated on this page $300 for a freaking shirt is practically unjustifiable. I dont care how much "innovation" or "technology" is involved at the end of the day it's a mesh jersey with some numbers stitched on, it's NOT worth $300+. That right there is WHY counterfiets exist. No other reason. If AUTHENTICS cost $150 or less MORE would be sold, and there would be less of a market for counterfiet jerseys.

It's simple greed that's fueling the whole cycle. I'd be really interested to know just how much more expesive it is to produce a Nike Limited jersey over a Gameday Replica, and likewise how much more expensive it is to produce an Elite over a Limited, cos I'll bet a $ to pinch of Snuff it's PENNIES difference yet the difference in retail price is MASSIVE.

If Nike, or any other manufacturer wanted to shut down counterfieting over night lowering their costs is all they'd have to do. I firmly believe it wouldn't even affect their bottom line as the increase in sales brought about by people who could now easily afford to buy more would more than ensure that their profits stayed healthy.

Yes counterfeiting is illegal, but manufacturers have made the rod for thier own backs by ramping up the price of merchandise ludacrously in the last 10 to 15 years so they've no one to blame but themselves. They cant in clear conscience effectively ripp off the paying customer then cry foul when someone does it to them, that's the dictionary definition of hypocrisy.

Greed? Is there no greed involved when leaches copy someone else's work and sell it as their own. The buyer is rewarding laziness and greed.

As for "blaming themselves", so the manufacturers are essentially like the woman that gets raped...she was on her own and was wearing a short skirt, so we blame the victim (and please think this through...I am not equating IP theft with rape...but I am pointing out that the IP owner is the victim of counterfeiting and blaming the victim is pretty lazy)

What the !!!! Did you just try to compare RAPE VICTIMS and IP theft? Even with the caveat "I'm not equating" thrown in there as an after thought you ARE equating them as YOU brought them up in the same bloody sentence. The two are not even close and NOWHERE did I even insinuate anything close to that you cretin.

NOWHERE did I CONDONE IP theft. NOWHERE. I gave the REASON for it's existence and a solution that would work FAR QUICKER than trying to shut down factories in China where they have ZERO REGARD FOR IP LAWS OF ANY KIND. I DID NOT say that purchasing a counterfiet jersey was ok because the price is high, I just pointed out why the opportunity for counterfieting exists.

If you cant see that counterfieting exists because people are priced out the market that's your issue, but clearly it's one amoung MANY FAR MORE SERIOUS ISSUES if you think for one second what I said and your ill thought through metaphor have ANY bearing on one another!

Authentic Jersey's are a luxury item, and as such will have a higher price tag... but push that tag to high and you leave yourself open to being ripped off. Is it right? No... BUT it's something the IP owners CAN AND DO CONTROL.

You're analouge is frankly disgusting and if anyone needs to THINK THIS THROUGH it's yourself.

[OnWis97]

I remember when I was a kid how I had to settle for buying team t-shirts with my lawn cutting money before I could afford to buy jerseys.

I'm pretty confident that if legit jersey cost only $50, that the $25-$30 fakes would still sell.

Maybe maybe not. But that's not really important. There are a lot of items I'd like to have and I wish the producers would lower the price. I absolutely fail to see how a price that is perceived as too high (and, FWIW I agree) justifies IP theft. Yeah, they are overpriced. Fortunately, they are also a luxury item that I really do not need to have in order to 1) survive and 2) be happy. I am sending a message to the leagues by not buying their over-priced items. If they were more appropriately priced, I may buy one occasionally. But I don't guy buy some goofy-looking (or, in some cases, pretty decent looking) knock off to "send a message" (that's not the reason anyone buys them...it's to save a buck).

There is a process. A creative design effort, etc. It absolutely drives me nuts that people just wait around for someone to do the work and then essentially "photocopy" that work and make money off of it. How someone finds that anything other than "wrong" truly escapes me.

Yes, I agree that the prices are too high. But it does not justify the support of IP theft.

This whole thread/argument could be put to bed in one fell swoop if the MANUFACTURERS would do ONE simple thing... LOWER THE PRICE.

As has been stated on this page $300 for a freaking shirt is practically unjustifiable. I dont care how much "innovation" or "technology" is involved at the end of the day it's a mesh jersey with some numbers stitched on, it's NOT worth $300+. That right there is WHY counterfiets exist. No other reason. If AUTHENTICS cost $150 or less MORE would be sold, and there would be less of a market for counterfiet jerseys.

It's simple greed that's fueling the whole cycle. I'd be really interested to know just how much more expesive it is to produce a Nike Limited jersey over a Gameday Replica, and likewise how much more expensive it is to produce an Elite over a Limited, cos I'll bet a $ to pinch of Snuff it's PENNIES difference yet the difference in retail price is MASSIVE.

If Nike, or any other manufacturer wanted to shut down counterfieting over night lowering their costs is all they'd have to do. I firmly believe it wouldn't even affect their bottom line as the increase in sales brought about by people who could now easily afford to buy more would more than ensure that their profits stayed healthy.

Yes counterfeiting is illegal, but manufacturers have made the rod for thier own backs by ramping up the price of merchandise ludacrously in the last 10 to 15 years so they've no one to blame but themselves. They cant in clear conscience effectively ripp off the paying customer then cry foul when someone does it to them, that's the dictionary definition of hypocrisy.

Greed? Is there no greed involved when leaches copy someone else's work and sell it as their own. The buyer is rewarding laziness and greed.

As for "blaming themselves", so the manufacturers are essentially like the woman that gets raped...she was on her own and was wearing a short skirt, so we blame the victim (and please think this through...I am not equating IP theft with rape...but I am pointing out that the IP owner is the victim of counterfeiting and blaming the victim is pretty lazy)

What the !!!! Did you just try to compare RAPE VICTIMS and IP theft? Even with the caveat "I'm not equating" thrown in there as an after thought you ARE equating them as YOU brought them up in the same bloody sentence. The two are not even close and NOWHERE did I even insinuate anything close to that you cretin.

If you cant see that counterfieting exists because people are priced out the market that's your issue, but clearly it's one amoung MANY FAR MORE SERIOUS ISSUES if you think for one second what I said and your ill thought through metaphor have ANY bearing on one another!

Authentic Jersey's are a luxury item, and as such will have a higher price tag... but push that tag to high and you leave yourself open to being ripped off. Is it right? No... BUT it's something the IP owners CAN AND DO CONTROL.

You're analouge is frankly disgusting and if anyone needs to THINK THIS THROUGH it's yourself.

You really should try some critical thinking. I knew the rape analogy would stick out to those who react in a knee jerk way so I even pointed out that I was not equating the crimes.

The analogy is "blaming the victim", that is all. It's most prevalent in rape. At no point do I imply the crimes are similar. I am not equating the crimes, but the "blame the victim" mentality. That's all. Really though, it's my fault. I know there are all kinds of people on the internet.

Much of what you say about counterfeiting is true. Counterfeiting is prevalent because of prices. "I can see" that, so it's not "my issue." Yes there are far more serious issues, but since this is a thread about counterfeiting...

But you seem to be suggesting (and correct me if I am wrong because you sure as hell missed the mark on the analogy) that this means that on some level they deserve it and that's just not so. The ease of the stealing and the difficulty of enforcement are also key in why this is so prevalent. In any case, if you do not blame the IP owners, your presentation sure seems to imply it.

As for my analogy, calm down. Rape is the most noteworthy "victim blaming" crime. That's the analogy and one should really be able to not just assume I am equating the two crimes.

Fine, here's a better one...

As for "blaming themselves", so the manufacturers are essentially like the the guy who gets his car radio stolen...his car was parked for too long in a sketchy neighborhood and the doors were unlocked, so we blame the victim. Better? The analogy works. Yeah, the dude could have locked his car and made it more difficult, but let's not forget that the crook is a crook and focus the blame on him.

You know, in hindsight, this was a better analogy, but your reaction is still way off-base and based on the assumption that I am equating two things (even though I expressly said otherwise).