North American Pro Soccer 2014

[FiddySicks]

Of course it was.

[Nyk33]

Apparently the owners of the Kings are in talks to buy Sacramento Republic FC which would be a much better situation for an MLS team than Las Vegas going by their minor league attendance so far.

http://www.sacbee.com/2014/08/03/6601050/kings-owners-in-talks-to-buy-sacramentos.html

[Gothamite]

Virtually anything would be better for an MLS team than Las Vegas.

[VictoriaGooner]

I just don't understand why a perspective club owner or group of owners would want to locate a club in Las Vegas? The soccer scene in the state of Nevada is very low. Their only soccer club in the state is the PDL Las Vegas Mobsters that only finished their inaugural season finishing 4th in the Mountain. Plus their home venue, Peter Johann Soccer Field on UNLV csmpus, can hold capapcity of 2,000 (they had hard times filling the stadium during the season). If you have a hard time filling a 2,000 seat stadia for U23 how are you going to fill a 20,000 seater stadia?

Sacramento would be good as they constantly sell out their home matches averaging 8,000. It would be a good derby location with San Jose and LA Galaxy. The love of soccer is bigger in California than Nevada in my opinion.

[crashcarson15]

If you have a hard time filling a 2,000 seat stadia for U23 how are you going to fill a 20,000 seater stadia?

Because literally 1% of soccer fans give a flying :censored: about the PDL and NSPL. With the exception of a few cities, none of these clubs are well-supported and equating attendance for what is effectively a college team (without the college emotional ties) for what attendance for a top-flight pro team would be is just... naïve if nothing else.

The reason why MLS wants into Vegas? It's a story. We've talked for how long about who's going to put a team in Vegas and what better way to gain some attention than to be the league that actually does it? It's a large metropolitan area without pro sports—and while it's probably not the best market they could choose from a local support standpoint, I'd honestly be a little surprised if it doesn't happen down the road. It's the type of splash that could help MLS grow towards the top.

(Plus, can you imagine the crowds that'd come down from Portland and Seattle for the weekend when those clubs visit? Providence/CenturyLink South anyone?)

[Soarindude]

If you have a hard time filling a 2,000 seat stadia for U23 how are you going to fill a 20,000 seater stadia?

Because literally 1% of soccer fans give a flying about the PDL and NSPL. With the exception of a few cities, none of these clubs are well-supported and equating attendance for what is effectively a college team (without the college emotional ties) for what attendance for a top-flight pro team would be is just... naïve if nothing else.

The reason why MLS wants into Vegas? It's a story. We've talked for how long about who's going to put a team in Vegas and what better way to gain some attention than to be the league that actually does it? It's a large metropolitan area without pro sports—and while it's probably not the best market they could choose from a local support standpoint, I'd honestly be a little surprised if it doesn't happen down the road. It's the type of splash that could help MLS grow towards the top.

(Plus, can you imagine the crowds that'd come down from Portland and Seattle for the weekend when those clubs visit? Providence/CenturyLink South anyone?)

You explained it best. And I think their is a pretty big following of people living in the Vegas area that would love to have a professional team to call their own. Of course, I'd like to see a USL/NASL team in the Vegas Area in a larger stadium for a few years before seeing a push for an MLS team. Stimulating the market with a 'real' team could lay out the groundwork for a successful team. Plus, Vegas is an international tourist attraction. International businessmen that love the game would surely pop in for games if their was an MLS team in a MLS-esque stadium.

[Gothamite]

There's no evidence that you can support a professional team on the tourist crowd that comes through Vegas. None whatsoever.

It is a small-ish city within a large, rapidly growing sprawl. Nouveau markets haven't always shown themselves to be good sports markets.

Sure, you're right. A team in Vegas would be a "story". A horror story. There's a good reason no reputable league has bothered.

[DarkJourney]

I would rather see the grass roots movement in Sacramento succeed in MLS than watch Las Vegas eventually fail.

[crashcarson15]

There's no evidence that you can support a professional team on the tourist crowd that comes through Vegas. None whatsoever.

Not sure where I said that was a reason to put a team there...? The comment about Portland and Seattle fans was in parenthesis because it wasn't a part of the actual point. It was more like, "hey if they do this, there's going to be 10,000 fans from those clubs at each road match there."

I don't disagree with your assessment of Las Vegas at all. But with their last few expansion cities, MLS has gone away from what's worked in order to make bigger "splashes." As far as the health of the league goes, expanding to San Antonio, Minneapolis (through MNUFC ownership), Indianapolis, and Sacramento would do them just fine. But they're trying to become something "bigger." It's why there's this supposed need for a second team in the NYC metro and the reason why they're willing to throw away the expansion protocol they've used for years that's, mind you, worked wonders for the league. It's why there's this supposed need to expand the league's footprint into the southeast through two markets in Miami and Atlanta that are more likely to fail than succeed. And it's why there's this interest in going to Vegas.

[DarkJourney]

I don't even see Miami getting off the ground. I think Beckham will ultimately fail in securing a stadium site. Like many others have said including myself he should just buy into re-branded Chivas.

[crashcarson15]

I don't even see Miami getting off the ground. I think Beckham will ultimately fail in securing a stadium site. Like many others have said including myself he should just buy into re-branded Chivas.

I'd much prefer that to happen and ultimately think that is what will happen but the fact that MLS is seemingly okay with it just adds to the "creating a media circus is more important than getting strong, successful markets" argument.

[Billy B]

I don't even see Miami getting off the ground. I think Beckham will ultimately fail in securing a stadium site. Like many others have said including myself he should just buy into re-branded Chivas.

I'd much prefer that to happen and ultimately think that is what will happen but the fact that MLS is seemingly okay with it just adds to the "creating a media circus is more important than getting strong, successful markets" argument.

I thought part of Beckham's deal for an expansion team was that it couldn't be located in Los Angeles. Maybe they'll make an exception, but the league already bought Chivas for more than Beckham's expansion prince. They're not going to want to give that team to Beckham for significantly less than what they paid for it. They'll be able to find a buyer in LA where they'll at least come close to breaking even.

And pretty much the only reason that Las Vegas is an option right now is that there are actually owners there with enough money to pay the expansion fee and build a stadium. MLS would definitely prefer to go to San Antonio, Indianapolis, Minnesota, etc. where there are already good fanbases, but having the money is a lot more important. But we just saw the Kings ownership say they might be interested in bringing up Sacramento, I doubt MLS resorts to actually going forward with Las Vegas.

[Gothamite]

There's no evidence that you can support a professional team on the tourist crowd that comes through Vegas. None whatsoever.

Not sure where I said that was a reason to put a team there...?

You didn't. Soarindude did:

Plus, Vegas is an international tourist attraction. International businessmen that love the game would surely pop in for games if their was an MLS team in a MLS-esque stadium.

That part of my response was to him.

[Gothamite]

I don't disagree with your assessment of Las Vegas at all. But with their last few expansion cities, MLS has gone away from what's worked in order to make bigger "splashes." As far as the health of the league goes, expanding to San Antonio, Minneapolis (through MNUFC ownership), Indianapolis, and Sacramento would do them just fine. But they're trying to become something "bigger." It's why there's this supposed need for a second team in the NYC metro and the reason why they're willing to throw away the expansion protocol they've used for years that's, mind you, worked wonders for the league. It's why there's this supposed need to expand the league's footprint into the southeast through two markets in Miami and Atlanta that are more likely to fail than succeed. And it's why there's this interest in going to Vegas.

Atlanta, I'll grant you. That's a real head-scratcher. But Miami is only on the list because Beckham wanted to put his team there. If he can't get a stadium deal, MLS won't bother with the city.

As for New York City, no professional league can thrive without a presence here. You just can't be irrelevant the media capital of the nation.

[Soarindude]

Gothamite, I mentioned tourism being a small "additional" force that will help bring in fans and stimulate the market a bit. The city itself still has 600k people, as well as neighboring cities, and a university. It's not a small-ish city by any means, and the suburban build up of it (whether you disagree with the urban planning of the city itself is irrelevant) leaves it a relevant option.

Sure, it's not the best decision. But it's certainty not going to lead to some sort of MLS downfall as you seem to be implying. I would like to see the league stay at 22 teams max, but with so many potential markets worthy (eventually, especially by say, 2024), and no expectations of seeing a promotion/relegation system added, a 30 team league by 2030 is very likely. Markets like Atlanta, San Antonio, Indianapolis, Minneosta, Detroit, etc. are eventually not going to settle for playing in a minor league system.

[rams80]

OK, the bigger problem with Las Vegas is the unique demographics of the market. The Strip remains the biggest economic driver in the market, and much of their business happens in the evening...which is around the time you'd be playing soccer games. Sees as you don't want fans/players dropping dead from heat stroke, etc...

Yes, there is UNLV, but their attendance is...not good.

[Gothamite]

Las Vegas proper is about the size of Louisville, Kentucky, Albuquerque or Milwaukee. So, yeah. A small-ish city. The history of sporting franchises over the past few decades has taught us that having a rapidly-growing surrounding area doesn't mean much for the health of a new franchise.

And if they're counting on tourists for any significant percentage of their box office, it'll fail.

Does Vegas already have any significant extant soccer culture? I honestly don't know, but if the answer is anything less than a resounding YES! than Vegas doesn't belong in the conversation with any current or proposed MLS markets. That's the one thing they all have in common - a strong and demonstrable love of the game before the top-level franchise arrived. Even Atlanta, which I think is a mistake, is in the middle of a very strong soccer state.

[ninersdd]

Vegas is more fit for big one off events. I'm sure it will do when big teams/players visit, but selling say Vegas-KC or Vegas-Columbus won't really do too well.

[crashcarson15]

As for New York City, no professional league can thrive without a presence here. You just can't be irrelevant the media capital of the nation.

If you feel like you need New York badly enough to warrant shoehorning a team into a soccer stadium, then just tell your team you've already got there to actually make themselves a presence. It shouldn't be that hard.

I thought part of Beckham's deal for an expansion team was that it couldn't be located in Los Angeles. Maybe they'll make an exception, but the league already bought Chivas for more than Beckham's expansion prince. They're not going to want to give that team to Beckham for significantly less than what they paid for it. They'll be able to find a buyer in LA where they'll at least come close to breaking even.

If I recall correctly, Beckham's expansion price for his club is just $25 million. There's been talk of him restructuring his deal to allow him to buy in to one of the bidding groups for Chivas in lieu of that option in Miami which probably isn't going to work.

And for what it's worth, there's this from Steven Goff (who's typically pretty reliable with soccer stuff) that MLS are only asking $60 million for the Chivas franchise. The fact that the league values that club at a lesser amount than clubs that don't even exist right now shows you how big of a mess that is.

And pretty much the only reason that Las Vegas is an option right now is that there are actually owners there with enough money to pay the expansion fee and build a stadium. MLS would definitely prefer to go to San Antonio, Indianapolis, Minnesota, etc. where there are already good fanbases, but having the money is a lot more important. But we just saw the Kings ownership say they might be interested in bringing up Sacramento, I doubt MLS resorts to actually going forward with Las Vegas.

Minnesota United's owned by a billionaire so that shouldn't be an issue on the money front. The other two, yeah, we don't have the investor in the club right now here in Indy. But all it takes is someone...

I generally agree that MLS won't go for Vegas. But the fate of the 24th team is an interesting proposition—though one I think will ultimately prove trivial since I highly doubt MLS stops there.

[Nyk33]

As for New York City, no professional league can thrive without a presence here. You just can't be irrelevant the media capital of the nation.

If you feel like you need New York badly enough to warrant shoehorning a team into a soccer stadium, then just tell your team you've already got there to actually make themselves a presence. It shouldn't be that hard.

The Red Bulls didn't want to be a presence in NYC until NYCFC (as much as I hate to say it) got into the picture and they finally started taking steps to appeal to the market which infuriates Red Bull fans and other soccer fans in the area.