NHL Anti-Thread: Bad Business Decision Aggregator

[dbadefense1990]

Perhaps the NHL is saving Quebec for the Devils?

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=425724

Just my opinion but I think the Devils will stay put in North Jersey. I still feel like the team that will move to Quebec are the Panthers. How that team has survived as long as they have in South Florida is beyond me.

At least they're not like the Marlins: a joke of a franchise, insinuated on extending periods of misery and torture for other teams and fans (Cubs, Indians), all while being hellbent on financial and fanbase insolvency despite being world champions at some points.

At least the Panthers have never won the Stanley Cup; otherwise, we'd get an argument of them staying because they won a title before.

[Gary]

Detroit might depend on the Red Wings for 'success' (despite the Tigers playing in two recent World Series, the Lions making the playoffs a couple year ago, and the Pistons having won an NBA title in the last decade), Detroit is first and foremost a football town. The Lions and college football are king there.

In the case of Detroit, I tend to look at trends to when their teams (or any other team in any other city) suck. If the Red Wings enter a slump for the next couple of years, they'll still be drawing people into the Joe, and still have Red Wing fans drawing the turnstiles at other cities. If the Pistons proceed to a period of sucking and rebuilding (which they are in right now), you'll barely see people at the Palace, and they'll likely end up as a side story on the sports pages (also doesn't help that a drive to-and-from downtown Detroit and Auburn Hills is usually a one hour commitment).

The Lions are the team up there I know the least about; I'd figure that after all the crappy years fans have endured (Eric Andolsek getting killed while mowing his lawn, Coach Mornhinweg deferring the ball and losing on their opponents' 1st possession in overtime, only one NFC title game appearance in 1992, Barry Sanders retiring early, 0-18), their fanbase would be minimal at best, that the majority of fans they've picked up the last couple of years are "Megatron" fans who are seeing him help the Lions be a winnable team right now.

Hedley is right, take it from someone from Michigan and who has family and many friends in the Detroit area. The city and state is a Lions nation first and foremost even how crummy the team is, we still love the Lions no matter how terrible they are. Red Wings are at best #2 or #3 depending how the Tigers are doing.

[Sodboy13]

Perhaps the NHL is saving Quebec for the Devils?

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=425724

Just my opinion but I think the Devils will stay put in North Jersey. I still feel like the team that will move to Quebec are the Panthers. How that team has survived as long as they have in South Florida is beyond me.

The Panthers operate as a loss leader for the arena, and the owners face a severe penalty if the team breaks its long-term lease.

[njmeadowlanders]

The Devils aren't going anywhere.

[Sodboy13]

Not with that lineup, they aren't.

[CS85]

Not with that lineup, they aren't.

[troy_3223]

Another case of where "playing the percentages" overcedes raw numbers.

In a city of 1 million, the Quebec City NHL team would be cared by 1 million people.

In a city of 3 million, the Seattle NHL team would be cared by 150,000 people. The other 95% would be split by the Seahawks (25%), Sounders (25%), Mariners (10%) and Sonics* (35%).

*Seattle is a basketball-first city, and despite losing the Sonics to Oklahoma City 5 years ago, they still have the largest sports-attention draw in the city

This seems to be based on an erroneous assumption that people only care about one sport, which is ridiculous.

True and (somewhat) false. Based on the people I've met who align themselves with Seattle sports, on seeing TV reports from news shows and sports-related media on YouTube, and on other sports blogs and forums I've read articles on, these are my rough estimations of what percentage of their pro teams people in the Northwest tend to show the greatest interest towards.

Given the saga of the whole Sonics relocation and their (failed) efforts of acquiring the Sac Kings, I tend to believe Seattle is a basketball city (also helps that their only pro championship was won by their 1979 NBA team). There is so much anger and hostility those people have towards Stern, Bennett and Schultz for their treatment of their NBA team, that anything they do gets the attention of the local media and the people running the whole "Sonicsgate" campaign.

The Seahawks are picking up steam with Pete Carroll and Russell Wilson running the show, while the Sounders have opened up the Northwest region as a very viable one for MLS and all of North American soccer (also the fact that the Sounders picked up casual fans distraught by the Sonics relocation in mid-2008 when their team was promoted to MLS status for the 2009 season). So they both have the next share of interest. The Mariners (as Kramerica or whoever else pointed it out) have been mostly an abyss for their franchise, who are the remaining AL franchise to have never won their pennant,* so they get the last share of attention.

But the whole "people only caring about one team in multi-team cities" does have some validity. For example:

-Detroit has four teams, yet it relies on the Red Wings first and foremost for success (although the Tigers come in a close 2nd).

-Los Angeles is a Lakers/Clippers town; even with the Kings/Ducks and Angels/Dodgers, the talk of this city (especially of the media) is all related to basketball, from the absurd trade "proposals," to the drama off the court between the players, to the even-more ridiculous comparisons to legendary players (Kobe vs. Jordan/LeBron/Magic/Bird).

-Dallas' allegiance is with the Cowboys first, followed by the declining Mavs, the Rangers and the scrappy Stars seeking attention.

-In Miami, LeBron has transformed that city into an NBA city. All the sucking the Dolphins have done has alienated those customers, there's the screw job Loria has done with the Marlins, and who in Miami pays attention to the NHL's Panthers on a nightly basis?

*I don't count the Astros in this factoid, since this is their first year in the American League. But even so, they do have a 2005 NL pennant, which means they have one more league championship flag than the Mariners

I will concede that there is some validity to the argument. But loyal fan allegiances are usually built on championships. Every instance you cited is due to a winning tradition. Seattle hasn't had that yet, outside of the 79 Sonics, which may explain the nostalgia and anger surrounding the Sonics.

Another factor that makes the Seattle sports scene different is our perception that we get shafted in national media coverage.

Therefore, our fan base is a little more fluid. There are some who stick to one team in one sport, but I'd venture to guess as high as 70% will throw in with whichever team is doing the best. Most of the sports fans I know in the area are like that. We have our favorite teams and sports (Mariners and NHL for me), but we'll show up to support whichever team is winning (because it's usually only one team at a time).

I've seen Key Arena packed for Storm games over the last few years. In person. Because as much as I hate to admit it, I'm a fair-weather bandwagoning Seattle fan just like the rest of them. But can you blame me for just wanting to get caught up in the excitement of a winning team? If the Mariners start winning on a pace that will put them in the postseason, the Sounders attendance will start declining. If the Coyotes come to town and make the playoffs, they'll have solid attendance. If they make it deep, the fanbase will even give them a two year grace period like we did with the M's after the 2001 116 win season.

There just hasn't been enough of a winning tradition with any one of our sports teams to foster the same rabid loyalty other cities have.

[rams80]

How cute. You think the Coyotes can win without the NHL manipulating officiating in their favor.

[Still MIGHTY]

Just putting this here for the of it...

MGM, AEG to develop 20K seat Las Vegas Strip Arena

LAS VEGAS (AP) — Casino giant MGM Resorts International and entertainment company AEG say they've inked a deal to build a 20,000-seat Las Vegas Strip arena.

Officials with Las Vegas-based MGM Resorts and Los Angeles-based AEG say the joint venture will provide a centerpiece for a renovation of the area from Las Vegas Boulevard to Frank Sinatra Drive between the New York-New York and Monte Carlo resorts.

Groundbreaking for the $350 million arena is expected next summer, with completion by spring 2016.

The companies say an unnamed privately funded third-party will also provide financing.

MGM Resorts International Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Jim Murren calls finalizing the agreement a project milestone.

The international design firm Populous has been hired to design the arena with premium seating and hospitality areas for entertainment and sports events.

[The_Admiral]

What happens after, do we start on another team and speculate about their landing spots. Either way this forum will be a lonely place without talk of the Coyotes moving.

Well, WMVP is reporting that Rocky says the Blackhawks aren't turning a profit...

I'm not Mr. Numbers, but isn't that in part to revenue sharing with money pits like Florida, Phoenix, etc?

The Blackhawks don't turn a profit, yet the various concession/alcohol/parking/arena subsidiaries are doing great. Who's to say these people didn't buy a parking space at the United Center and just...walk around?

he's posturing as Rahm tries to build a competing, taxpayer-funded arena in the Sloop.

We can't let this arena happen! We need to subsidize the Chicago Wolves so we can save MB Financial Park!

[DustDevil61]

Just putting this here for the of it...

MGM, AEG to develop 20K seat Las Vegas Strip Arena

LAS VEGAS (AP) — Casino giant MGM Resorts International and entertainment company AEG say they've inked a deal to build a 20,000-seat Las Vegas Strip arena.

Officials with Las Vegas-based MGM Resorts and Los Angeles-based AEG say the joint venture will provide a centerpiece for a renovation of the area from Las Vegas Boulevard to Frank Sinatra Drive between the New York-New York and Monte Carlo resorts.

Groundbreaking for the $350 million arena is expected next summer, with completion by spring 2016.

The companies say an unnamed privately funded third-party will also provide financing.

MGM Resorts International Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Jim Murren calls finalizing the agreement a project milestone.

The international design firm Populous has been hired to design the arena with premium seating and hospitality areas for entertainment and sports events.

They better hurry and get it built if they want the Coyotes.

That is, if Bettman/NHL BoG hasn't already dropped everything they're doing in Seattle upon catching wind of this.

Edited June 18, 2013 by DustDevil61

[dfwabel]

The MGM/AEG project was announced in March. The selection of Populous is the "news" of that story.

They plan to build in-between the Monte Carlo and NYNY (traffic problem) plus MGM Resorts has interest payments of upwards of $100M/month and is really cash poor. Like 9 months of cash left.

EDIT: This facility, if approved and built, is basically going to shut UNLV's Thomas & Mack Center out of any major indoor events in the city and keep people on The Strip. Your major fights/UFC, concerts, and National Finals Rodeo (10 days in December) would be taken away from the campus.

Remember that UNLV stadium project they have been touting since 2011: UNLV Now? Well, MGM Resorts decommited their $20M then the school and Majestic had a fallout in March and that project was dead before the Nevada Legislature even voted on.

This is also the city, where a developer has submitted plans to the FAA for a 650 ft. high roller coaster.

Edited June 18, 2013 by dfwabel

[IceCap]

LET'S MOVE THE COYOTES TO SEATTLE AND THEN EXPAND TO LAS VEGAS AND KANSAS CITY!

I mean why not at this point, really.

[rams80]

The hilarious aspect about this efforts to "preserve the realignment" and "keep the poor Eastern teams from heading out west all the time" is that the new schedule format has every team at least playing a home and home with every other team. Honestly, if Detroit and Columbus stayed out west and the Coyotes moved to Quebec, they'd only be playing 2 more games in the Pacific Time zone.

[CubsFanBudMan]

LET'S MOVE THE COYOTES TO SEATTLE AND THEN EXPAND TO LAS VEGAS AND KANSAS CITY!

I mean why not at this point, really.

This was my initial thought while trying to channel the NHL. Except I had Quebec instead of Kansas City. Quebec of course would initially be Winnipegged into the West (Southeast) as a penalty for being in Canada.

[dbadefense1990]

LET'S MOVE THE COYOTES TO SEATTLE AND THEN EXPAND TO LAS VEGAS AND KANSAS CITY!

I mean why not at this point, really.

If there's one league that'll expand its sport to a death trap of a region, fanbase-wise and environmental-wise, all while setting shop in a state home to legalized gambling, bookies and the brothel house in Reno, it's the GDNHL.

[Magnus]

If there's one league that'll expand its sport to a death trap of a region, fanbase-wise and environmental-wise, all while setting shop in a state home to legalized gambling, bookies and the brothel house in Reno, it's the GDNHL.

I'm not even sure the NHL is that lacking in fores--ah, it, they probably are...the CFL sure tried it and failed miserably, so why not the NHL?

[Sodboy13]

Some of us remember when the AFL Las Vegas Gladiators held their practices in a casino parking lot under the midday Nevada desert sun, occasionally next to where circus animals were kept, and once played a regular-season game on a non-holiday Monday afternoon on a surface patched with duct tape in some spots.

And by "some of us", I mean probably just me and rams80.

[Gary]

Some of us remember when the AFL Las Vegas Gladiators held their practices in a casino parking lot under the midday Nevada desert sun, occasionally next to where circus animals were kept, and once played a regular-season game on a non-holiday Monday afternoon on a surface patched with duct tape in some spots.

And by "some of us", I mean probably just me and rams80.

I remember as well, I also remember the Rattlers practicing at a park in the middle of a park at one time in the middle of a 110° day.

[Francis10]

So the Glendale council met last night to consider Renaissance's pitch for how they've found $9.5 million more in revenues to share to move the arena management subsidy from $6.5 million to $15 million. The response was, shall we say, underwhelming? Alvarez walked out.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/glendale/articles/20130618coyotes-suitors-pitch-fails-excite.html

The important information is that there doesn't seem to be the momentum and will to get a vote on this before the NHL's benchmark date of 27 June. Who blinks first?