NHL Anti-Thread: Bad Business Decision Aggregator

[Dilbert]

2 hours ago, Bmac said:

The bigger piece of the puzzle is the support ANY big-5 professional team would get if based in Omaha. People often cite the diehard support of Husker football or any of the other local college teams as a reason a pro team wouldn't work here. As in, people care so much about those teams that there isn't any room left for another franchise. In reality, Omahans have shown time and again that they'll show up for just about any sporting event. And all the pro teams around here get great support (Union Omaha, Omaha Storm Chasers, Omaha Supernovas). Plus an impressive track record hosting the College World Series, US swim trials, and US curling trials, all of which the community have fallen in love with.

 

I don't think Omaha is an actual market in consideration for any of the big-5 professional leagues, but I do think the NHL would actually be the best option and could work.

Ive mentioned before,  IMHO, Omaha could potentially be the next Oklahoma City for the Big 5. It has a great track record supporting the teams and events they do have. Plus many still see Omaha as the small middle of nowhere midwest town. Omahas population has been on a big rise since the 90s. Its the 40th largest city in the US, ahead of Anaheim, Buffalo, Miami, Newark, Pittsburgh, Raleigh, St Louis, St Paul, Tampa, and Tempe.

 

Of those 6 potential expansion cities, Omaha is in the middle population wise.

4. Houston

37. Kansas City

38. Atlanta

40. Omaha

64. Cincinnati

117. Salt Lake City

[Fowler2]

Metro Population

7. Houston

10. Atlanta 

32. Cincinnati 

33. Kansas City 

48. Salt Lake City 

58. Omaha

 

TV Market 

6. Houston

7. Atlanta 

27. Salt Lake City 

34. Kansas City 

37. Cincinnati 

73. Omaha

 

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

So they're considering Omaha and its half-million population, and not the similarly-sized Quebec City or Halifax? 

 

As the lady from The Whitest Kids U'Know used to say: oh, hell no!

[VampyrRabbit]

16 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

So they're considering Omaha and its half-million population, and not the similarly-sized Quebec City or Halifax? 

 

As the lady from The Whitest Kids U'Know used to say: oh, hell no!

The league isn't considering Halifax due to it's isolation and the economy of Nova Scotia, which is 7th in terms of GDP for the Canadian Provinces and Territories. The Scotiabank Centre also only seats 10,000 people. As cool as it would be to see the Highlanders take on the Ducks in a defictionalized team battle, it's not going to happen.

[The_Admiral]

Yeah, Halifax is a reach for a number of reasons, but Quebec City would be a greater success than the fool's gold (Atlanta, SLC, Houston) and just plain foolishness (Omaha, Cincinnati) on that list.

[BBTV]

8 minutes ago, The_Admiral said:

Yeah, Halifax is a reach for a number of reasons, but Quebec City would be a greater success than the fool's gold (Atlanta, SLC, Houston) and just plain foolishness (Omaha, Cincinnati) on that list.

 

How the hell did Omaha get brought into any discussion of major league sports, other than "hey remember that weird time way back  when the Kings played 10 games a year there?"

 

This isn't exactly a hot take, or even an original one, but the NHL should embrace what it is, which is a regional sport, and sorta reset itself by returning to places like QC and..... well, I guess just QC.

[The_Admiral]

1 hour ago, BBTV said:

How the hell did Omaha get brought into any discussion of major league sports, other than "hey remember that weird time way back  when the Kings played 10 games a year there?"

 

I mean, I guess someone with money asked after the possibility of expansion and the league listened. Every now and then we hear about Louisville poking around the NBA, too.

 

Omaha could have been a passable one-team town in the NBA at one time given the lack of Great Plains presence and the relative irrelevance of Huskers basketball, but Oklahoma City sort of took care of that instead. The Grizzlies or New Orleans Hornets could have moved there instead and made it work, is what I'm saying. The NHL? Ehh. Doesn't excite me. Feels like an old IHL market. It's Kansas City's Grand Rapids.

[GDAWG]

Louisville's best shot at being a major league sports town is if the MLS expands to 40 and the MLS wises up and adds the already existing Louisville City FC instead of starting a new team from scratch and calling them "FC Louisville."  I would prefer Louisville to get one of the spots for MLS 31-32 but sadly, I think the MLS will suffer from a thing called the "Vegas Virus" and award one of the spots to Las Vegas while Phoenix, Indy and Louisville battle for 32.   

[tigerslionspistonshabs]

Does Omaha have a pro-ready arena?

[Bmac]

10 minutes ago, tigerslionspistonshabs said:

Does Omaha have a pro-ready arena?

Yes, seats 18,300.

 

Although I believe they decommissioned the hockey ice setup and maintenance system when the Omaha Mavericks left for their own on-campus arena. But there's been talk of hosting NCAA hockey regionals at the downtown arena, so hosting hockey again is a possibility.

[Sport]

 

On 2/2/2024 at 11:33 PM, The_Admiral said:

I remember local hero @Sport pointing out that the Cincinnati and Dayton metros have basically merged into one agglomeration.  Not a lot of separation between Cincinnayton and Columbus, which itself keeps sprawling. None at all, really.

 

I've always said Cincinnati just intuitively feels like an NHL town more than Columbus does, and would have had the benefit of not having a big-time college arena down the street from its own, but there's no way you can have both towns in the league at the same time.

 

On 2/3/2024 at 3:12 PM, The_Admiral said:

Yeah, I'm sure there's a similar one-way flow with Cleveland and Akron. I wouldn't put an NHL team there, either. Columbus really precludes both, which I'm sure was indirectly part of the idea: neither market can 100%-for-sure sustain a team, but be Ohio's Team and pull secondary support from both. Honestly would have been smooth sailing had Ohio State not built an identical arena down the street.

 

That was the pitch of Columbus back in 97. Growing city in an open spot on the map without a major pro team* and they could draw from nearby cities, including the other C's, without much trouble. Cincinnati and Cleveland were overextended with their sports then and still are now and Cincinnati has added an MLS team in that time without adding that many more people. I think time has proven Columbus to be a good idea for an NHL market. In spite of never really being a cup threat, and then some now-sorted issues with the arena, the market has grown up with the franchise and attendance is relatively stable to good. It's been nearly a decade since I worried about relocation. Part of the reason Columbus doesn't feel like a place people are from is because we never had a major Columbus team to take pride in. The Crew are changing that, but if the Blue Jackets ever put together a consistent champion and contender then it'll blow that up. We're going to be as annoying as Ohio State football fans. Beware. 

 

I got a few texts asking me what I would do if we got an NHL team here in Cincinnati. As a day one CBJ fan** I don't think I could bail, but I'm not not rooting for Cincy to get a team - I just don't think it makes any sense. But I also don't have to make that choice because it's not happening. I know a fluff job when I see one and Gary and Bill were just trying to pad their list of potential cities so they'd sound more impressive. I'm sure Gary Bettman did have a phone call with a Lindner kid, but we don't have an arena***, we're too close to Columbus, and we're already strapped with NFL, MLB, MLS, and college sports. 

 

If I was King of Hockey I'd move the Coyotes somewhere else and keep it at 32. I know expansion fees are tempting, but 32 is the perfect number for a North American sports league and they have pretty much every hole plugged. Any more than 32 feels like asking for trouble. 

 

 

 

*ignoring that OSU sports sucks more oxygen out of the room than most major pro sports franchises. 

**literally day one. My 13 year old behind was in section 211 on October 7, 2000.

***I went to a Cyclones game a couple weeks ago. That arena is fun in that you can still experience an old-fashioned BARN in 2024 without any extravagances of modern indoor stadia. I almost hope it's never replaced. 

[Dilbert]

6 hours ago, Sport said:

That was the pitch of Columbus back in 97. Growing city in an open spot on the map without a major pro team* and they could draw from nearby cities, including the other C's, without much trouble.

I have ventured from Cincy to Columbus only three times for hockey and only two times was it for a Blue Jackets game. The other was a game involving the farm teams at that time, Syracuse Crunch (CBS) vs Cincinnati Mighty Ducks (ANA/DET)

 

6 hours ago, Sport said:

got a few texts asking me what I would do if we got an NHL team here in Cincinnati. As a day one CBJ fan** I don't think I could bail, but I'm not not rooting for Cincy to get a team - I just don't think it makes any sense.

Hockey has always been low man on the totem pole here in Cincy. Reds, Bengals, FCC up top, college football and basketball in the middle, and hockey at the bottom. I honestly believe that people here would rather see the NBA return with the Royals than get an NHL team.

 

6 hours ago, Sport said:

***I went to a Cyclones game a couple weeks ago. That arena is fun in that you can still experience an old-fashioned BARN in 2024 without any extravagances of modern indoor stadia. I almost hope it's never replaced. 

The Coliseum has its own charm. I dont know any other venue that doesnt serve Coca Cola or Pepsi products (they serve products of Dr Pepper Keurig- RC Cola, Diet Rite, Sunkist, Big Red, Dr Pepper, 7 Up, Sun Drop), but its no old fashioned barn by any means. Now the Cincinnati Gardens, that was an old fashioned barn. I swear in 2004 i could still smell stale popcorn and beer from 1972 in there. Was sad to lose that arena.

[Sport]

10 hours ago, Dilbert said:

I have ventured from Cincy to Columbus only three times for hockey and only two times was it for a Blue Jackets game. The other was a game involving the farm teams at that time, Syracuse Crunch (CBS) vs Cincinnati Mighty Ducks (ANA/DET)

 

I've done it probably 50 times, but my parents are there and I'm weird. For a normal person, I don't think the Columbus Blue Jackets have taken in Cincinnati as well as the NHL might've hoped in 1997, but large nearby population centers to draw from was the pitch when they were selling Columbus as an expansion market in the mid 90's. I remember when I first moved back here in 2012 there were three instances where I informed a Cincinnati resident that Columbus had a team in the NHL and they were blown away. That's how anonymous the Blue Jackets were. That's also Cincinnati, though, where many people here are deliberately uninterested in anything that happens outside of 275. Cleveland seems to be more into the Blue Jackets, but that's probably because they've had the CBJ AHL farm team for at least a decade now. 

 

10 hours ago, Dilbert said:

Hockey has always been low man on the totem pole here in Cincy. Reds, Bengals, FCC up top, college football and basketball in the middle, and hockey at the bottom. I honestly believe that people here would rather see the NBA return with the Royals than get an NHL team.

 

You're right. If you plopped a new arena on the river tomorrow I think most people here would ask for an NBA team first. I also think the NBA would make more sense. Indy is only 100 minutes away, but I can count on one hand the number of people I've met here who are diehard Pacers fans. 

 

10 hours ago, Dilbert said:

The Coliseum has its own charm. I dont know any other venue that doesnt serve Coca Cola or Pepsi products (they serve products of Dr Pepper Keurig- RC Cola, Diet Rite, Sunkist, Big Red, Dr Pepper, 7 Up, Sun Drop), but its no old fashioned barn by any means. Now the Cincinnati Gardens, that was an old fashioned barn. I swear in 2004 i could still smell stale popcorn and beer from 1972 in there. Was sad to lose that arena.

 

I played in the Gardens multiple times, but never saw a game from the stands. It did feel like going back in time. What I like about the Coliseum is it's like a mini-Joe Louis or a mini-Nassau. They don't make them like that anymore either. 

[tigerslionspistonshabs]

Don't execute me for this, but does anyone think the Blue Jackets may have been better received if they were named 'Ohio'? I know Ohio has many large cities and they may have drawn more support from places like Cincy, Cleveland, Dayton, Akron, etc.

[monkeypower]

13 hours ago, Dilbert said:

The Coliseum has its own charm. I dont know any other venue that doesnt serve Coca Cola or Pepsi products (they serve products of Dr Pepper Keurig- RC Cola, Diet Rite, Sunkist, Big Red, Dr Pepper, 7 Up, Sun Drop), but its no old fashioned barn by any means.

 

The Honda Center just switched back to Coke last season after being RC Cola for a time, but I don't know how long and I can't remember what it was the last time I was there in 2014. Googling brought up the Penguins arena having RC Cola at one point as well.

[tp49]

Back in the 80's RC Cola was served at Shea Stadium.

[RyanMcD29]

This may or may not have escalated quickly

https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/news/sources-three-options-on-the-table-for-arizona-coyotes-future-in-the-desert

[LaGrandeOrange]

SLC feels like an...unsexy? threat location. I know "welcoming ownership" is the most important thing at this point, but it's hard to imagine SLC provides much more upside than, say, Québec, who have had welcoming ownership for a decade.

[The_Admiral]

2 hours ago, LaGrandeOrange said:

SLC feels like an...unsexy? threat location. I know "welcoming ownership" is the most important thing at this point, but it's hard to imagine SLC provides much more upside than, say, Québec, who have had welcoming ownership for a decade.

BUT THE ALIGNMENT (if Quebec pulled a 2011 Jets and stayed put for a bit, they'd be a better time zone fit than the hybrid Pacific/Mountain Phoenix. The frozen-water league has too many teams on the arid half of the continent)

[VampyrRabbit]

On 2024-02-03 at 8:29 PM, Dilbert said:

Ive mentioned before,  IMHO, Omaha could potentially be the next Oklahoma City for the Big 5. It has a great track record supporting the teams and events they do have. Plus many still see Omaha as the small middle of nowhere midwest town. Omahas population has been on a big rise since the 90s. Its the 40th largest city in the US, ahead of Anaheim, Buffalo, Miami, Newark, Pittsburgh, Raleigh , St Louis, St Paul, Tampa, and Tempe.

 

Of those 6 potential expansion cities, Omaha is in the middle population wise.

4. Houston

37. Kansas City

38. Atlanta

40. Omaha

64. Cincinnati

117. Salt Lake City

Omaha also has a population bigger than Elmont, New York and Paradise, Nevada. Just going by the population of a city, and not taking into account the area the city covers and the actual metro population can be incredibly misleading. That is certainly the case for Omaha in comparision to current NHL markets.

Going by area, Omaha is the third biggest in terms of those mentioned cities

 

Tampa - 175.83 sq mi

Raleigh - 149.60 sq mi

Omaha - 146.28 sq mi

St Louis - 66.17 sq m

Pittsburgh - 58.35 sq mi

Saint Paul - 56.10 sq mi

Miami - 56.07 sq mi

Buffalo - 52.48 sq mi

Anaheim - 50.88 sq mi

Tempe - 40.15 sq mi

Newark - 25.88 sq mi

And those cities by population density

 

Newark - 12,903.8/sq mi

Miami - 12,284.47/sq mi

Anaheim - 6,899.22/sq mi

Buffalo - 6,893.41/sq mi

Saint Paul - 5,994.02/sq mi

Pittsburgh - 5,471.26/sq mi

St Louis - 4,886.23/sq mi

Tempe - 4,521.34/sq mi

Omaha - 3,658.41/sq mi

Tampa - 3,376.4/sq mi

Raleigh - 3,148.33/sq mi

 

So Omaha is third from top in terms of city area and third from bottom in terms of density. It also has/is in a smaller metro area population wise than any of those other cities. And while it's population did grow a lot during the 90's, 00's and 10's, judging by estimates for 2022 it looks to have slowed a lot.

 

On 2024-02-03 at 9:37 PM, BottomlessPitt said:

Metro Population

7. Houston

10. Atlanta 

32. Cincinnati 

33. Kansas City 

48. Salt Lake City 

58. Omaha

 

TV Market 

6. Houston

7. Atlanta 

27. Salt Lake City 

34. Kansas City 

37. Cincinnati 

73. Omaha

 

 
Metro population and TV market are a much better indication than by the population of the main city of a metro area, and by those numbers, Omaha is way down the list and the arguement that it could support an NHL Franchise because it's the 40th largest city in terms of population and ahead of *8 cities that do have a NHL team (the Panthers don't play in the city of Miami and the residents of Tempe said no to the Coyotes) is a pretty weak one.

 

*Edit - The Coyotes do play in Tempe for the time being, so that should be nine cities.