Lee.

The Pointless Realignment Outpost

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10 hours ago, buzzcut said:

I actually saw a report on ballparkdigest.com saying that a PCL team is being targeted for a move to St. Paul and that some short season clubs, like the whole Northwest League may become full season operations.

 

I knew I missed something when you mentioned the Northwest League moving from short season play to full season play.

 

I should explain how this would works.

 

Triple A

The article I read mentioned that the PCL would be a 10 team league and the IL would be 20 teams. It made it simple for me: The six teams north of Texas (Iowa, Memphis, Nashville, Oklahoma City, Omaha and Wichita) move to the IL. Now comes the hard part and one I didn't add in because in my original plan, St. Paul was going to be in the Class A Midwest League as a relocation of a current team in that league. Now? Well.. oh boy. I don't want to move a current PCL team because it would ruin the geographic plan. So, why not get rid of Wichita and put it St. Paul in their place in the IL?

 

Double A

The Eastern League has no changes, but the Southern League loses two teams. Those teams were Jackson and Mississippi. Why those two? No reason. Those two teams move to the Texas League. The Jackson franchise moves to Shreveport, where they had a team in the Texas League until 2002 when they moved to Frisco. Mississippi now becomes the new Sugar Land team.

 

High Single A

No changes here.

 

Low Single A

This is where most of the chaos would be located. The South Atlantic League becomes a 6 team league while the remaining members form a brand new Mid-Atlantic League. The Midwest League would shrink from 16 teams to 8. The other 8 teams would be the new full season Northwest League.

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If the San Antonio Missions can't get a new ballpark built could they be on the move to St. Paul even though they recently just relocated from Colorado Springs?

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2 hours ago, Seadragon76 said:

So, why not get rid of Wichita and put it St. Paul in their place in the IL?


Because the City of Wichita has recently spent $75 million in public money to construct a brand new ballpark with the promise that a Triple A franchise would be setting up shop in the municipality, that's why.

It's wonderful that the powers-that-be at Major League Baseball headquarters and amongst the individual owners of the big league franchises have come up with this visionary plan for how they see affiliated minor league baseball being structured moving forward. That said, they'd better hope that they have all of their minor league affiliates ensconced in newly-built and/or significantly-renovated ballparks from the get-go of implementing said plan. Why? Because, after they've unceremoniously shifted the teams in some markets to lower classifications of competition - or, abandoned said cities altogether - they're going to have an awfully tough time convincing government entities to fork over significant amounts of public funding for new ballparks in the future.

The optics surrounding the public subsidization of privately-held sports franchises through the construction of arenas, ballparks, and stadiums for said teams is bad enough as it is. Leave it to the suits at MLB to come up with a way to make it look even worse.

"Listen, we know you rubes just forked over $75 million for a ballpark thinkin' that you'd land  a Triple A team, but the owners of our Minnesota franchise are fixated on havin' their top farmhands just a 20-minute, 12 1/2-mile drive away. Plus, the wacky bastards runnin' the independent team in the market we were eyeballin' outdrew 23 of the 30 affiliated Triple A teams last season! I mean, if you can't beat 'em, have 'em join ya!!! No hard feelings, right? Anyway... we're gonna try to set you folks up with somethin' else. Double A, Single A... it's a little up in the air right now. We'll get back to ya... maybe. In the meantime, I hear the American Association is looking for a market."               

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Aw, crap... Well, thanks to that, I'd have to pick another team for St. Paul to replace. Maybe Nashville???

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The International League Charlotte Knights' BB&T Ballpark has been in operation "only" since 2014, and the Pacific Coast League Nashville Sounds' First Tennessee (soon to be First Horizon) Park dates back "only" to 2015.  For that combined reason, a Major League Baseball franchise for Charlotte or Nashville would have to be very set in stone before I would regard a move of that city's respective minor-league club to St. Paul as being justifiable.  Otherwise, assuming that the major leagues are not expanding at that moment -- which would need to happen before the minor leagues in general have their own expansion -- and the Charlotte or Nashville MLB club is thus the result of a relocation, a St. Paul Class AAA team might as well come at the expense of Fresno (if the relocating team must be in the PCL) or a still-population-losing and still-economically-depressed area in the Great Lakes region, the Mid-Atlantic, or the Northeast (if an IL club can be moved to St. Paul).

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On 3/22/2010 at 9:08 AM, BringBackTheVet said:

Everyone wants to think that their team has at least an outside shot of winning a championship when the season starts. There's always a few surprise teams, and even fans in Pittsburgh have to have some hope (at least on opening day) that this can be their year. Having an A and B league effectively eliminates half of the league before the season even starts, making it unlikely that people are going to turn out, even in the beginning. Why would I want to go to games for what is effectively a minor league team?

To piggy back off of what you said. You'd also have to have Owners that are willing to Spend money in order to Get Better and Compete (to move up into the "A" League). bob nutting cares not for spending money to improve his team, so what's to say he'd give 2 :censored:s IF the Pirates never competed in the "A" League

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Someone on another forum did a quick calculation on who would be cut in a contraction of the minor leagues:

 


-- Staten Island (NYY) and Brooklyn (NYM) would likely be the two NYPL teams moving up to the AA Eastern League
-- Aberdeen (BAL) would likely be the NYPL team moving to the high-A Carolina League
-- If you sort all 160 current affected teams, the top 120 (the projected cutoff point) would all have a minimum of 5000 seats at their stadiums.  The two independent teams (St. Paul and Sugar Land) have capacities of 7000-7500
-- All 10 teams in the Appalachian League are in the danger zone, having capacities of 4000 or less, but 7 of those 10 teams are owned by their MLB affiliates
-- The other Rookie-Adv level league, the Pioneer League, currently has 5 out of 8 teams in the safety zone (including Colorado-owned Grand Junction), but 2 of those 5 would be bumped out by the two independents
-- High-A Carolina League would have 3 teams in trouble (Down East (TEX owned), Fayetteville (HOU owned), Lynchburg)
-- High-A Florida State League would have 1 team in trouble (Daytona)
-- High-A California League would have 3 teams in trouble (Modesto (SEA owned), San Jose (SF owned), Visalia)
-- Low-A South Atlantic League would have 3 teams in trouble (Asheville, Hagerstown, Kannapolis)
-- Low-A Midwest League would have 3 teams in trouble (Beloit, Bowling Green, Burlington)

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Midwest League:

 

No surprise on Beloit (ancient stadium that's been repeatedly been a concern) and Burlington (smallest market in full-season affilated ball, although I enjoyed the doubleheader I took in there a few years back)

 

Bowling Green though?  I guess its a small market and kind of on an island.for travel, but that's only a 10-year old stadium, in a place where they might still resort to tar and feathers.  Might want to send some MBA you secretly hate in your organization to drop the boom there.

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On 10/20/2019 at 7:02 AM, buzzcut said:

Someone on another forum did a quick calculation on who would be cut in a contraction of the minor leagues:

 
-- High-A Carolina League would have 3 teams in trouble (Down East (TEX owned), Fayetteville (HOU owned), Lynchburg)
-- Low-A South Atlantic League would have 3 teams in trouble (Asheville, Hagerstown, Kannapolis)
-- Low-A Midwest League would have 3 teams in trouble (Beloit, Bowling Green, Burlington)


If Major League Baseball's grand reorganization of the affiliated minor leagues comes to pass, the civic leaders in Kinston (NC) - home to the Down East Wood Ducks - will feel relatively lucky if their team is eliminated. After all, the $1.6 million that the City of Kinston spent in 2017 and 2018 to upgrade Grainger Stadium's grandstand, outfield walls, lighting and parking lots in order to lure a Texas Rangers Class A-Advanced farm team to town will seem like a pittance compared to the sums wasted - pardon "invested" - by Bowling Green (KY), Fayetteville (NC) and Kannapolis (NC) in their respective quests to host an MLB-affilated minor league team.

* The City of Bowling Green spent $28 million in 2008 ($33.4 million when adjusted for inflation) in order to build Bowling Green Ballpark and land a Class A Midwest League franchise.

* The City of Fayetteville spent $38 million in 2017 ($39.6 million today) to construct Segra Stadium and draw a Class A-Advanced Carolina League squad to the community.

* The City of Kannapolis spent $6.8 million in 1995 ($11.5 million adjusted for inflation) to build the current home of the municipality's Class A South Atlantic League team, plus another $52 million to construct the brand new ballpark that the franchise will move into next year.

       

     

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And keep in mind within this concept that MLB a lot of these "leftover" teams will end up in the "Dream League" pool where undrafted players would play. Which is also, itself would be a pretty firm attack on Indy ball as it exists now.

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It's beyond a shame that so many communities have fallen sway to the siren song of landing an affiliated minor league baseball team and committed public monies to the construction of ballparks that primarily benefit privately-held franchises. Worse still that the MLB parent clubs have, through the MiLB facility standards that they've insisted upon, pitted communities against one another in a ceaseless race to keep, or secure, an affiliated farm team. All of that said, its unconscionable that the powers-that-be in MLB would so callously advocate for the elimination of affiliated teams in markets - such as those I cited up-thread - where millions of dollars in public funding have fairly recently been spent to either upgrade existing ballparks or build brand new ones.

Frankly, I'd love to see professional baseball's antitrust exemption be given a thorough examination by the Congressional delegations from the states/districts which will be significantly impacted by MLB's proposed reorganization of affiliated minor league ball.

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Most of us think MLS will eventually grow to 40 clubs but I'm going with a 36 club alignment. 3 conferences with 12 clubs each. Top 16 make the playoffs by record. Seeded 1 through 16 in a single elimination tournament. 

 

EAST

Toronto 

Montreal 

New England 

NYCFC

NY Red Bulls

Philadelphia 

DC United 

Charlotte 

Atlanta 

Orlando 

Tampa Bay (only if Rays sell)

Miami

 

CENTRAL

Austin

Dallas

Houston

Kansas City 

St. Louis 

Minnesota 

Chicago 

Indianapolis 

Nashville 

Cincinnati 

Columbus 

Detroit 

 

WEST

Vancouver 

Seattle 

Portland 

Sacramento 

San Jose 

LAFC

LA Galaxy 

San Diego 

Las Vegas 

Phoenix 

Salt Lake 

Colorado 

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On 10/20/2019 at 10:02 AM, buzzcut said:

Someone on another forum did a quick calculation on who would be cut in a contraction of the minor leagues:

 


-- Staten Island (NYY) and Brooklyn (NYM) would likely be the two NYPL teams moving up to the AA Eastern League
-- Aberdeen (BAL) would likely be the NYPL team moving to the high-A Carolina League
-- If you sort all 160 current affected teams, the top 120 (the projected cutoff point) would all have a minimum of 5000 seats at their stadiums.  The two independent teams (St. Paul and Sugar Land) have capacities of 7000-7500
-- All 10 teams in the Appalachian League are in the danger zone, having capacities of 4000 or less, but 7 of those 10 teams are owned by their MLB affiliates
-- The other Rookie-Adv level league, the Pioneer League, currently has 5 out of 8 teams in the safety zone (including Colorado-owned Grand Junction), but 2 of those 5 would be bumped out by the two independents
-- High-A Carolina League would have 3 teams in trouble (Down East (TEX owned), Fayetteville (HOU owned), Lynchburg)
-- High-A Florida State League would have 1 team in trouble (Daytona)
-- High-A California League would have 3 teams in trouble (Modesto (SEA owned), San Jose (SF owned), Visalia)
-- Low-A South Atlantic League would have 3 teams in trouble (Asheville, Hagerstown, Kannapolis)
-- Low-A Midwest League would have 3 teams in trouble (Beloit, Bowling Green, Burlington)

I really hope the Tourists would stay. I go to games every so often when I visit my grandparents and McCormick Field is a beautiful stadium, and from what I can tell the team isn't doing awful attendance-wise. Hopefully we lose zero teams, but if this does happen, North Carolina baseball would be in trouble (5 of those teams you listed are from the Tar Heel State, being Down East, Fayetteville, Asheville, Kannapolis, and Burlington).

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Neo's World of Sports Built from Scratch

(A work in progress; Could be a preview of a future concept series)

 

BASEBALL

League A
EAST

Atlanta
Boston
Cleveland
Detroit
New York
Philadelphia
Toronto
Washington

 

WEST
Chicago
Dallas
Los Angeles
Milwaukee
Minnesota
San Francisco
Seattle
St Louis

 

League B
EAST

Baltimore
Brooklyn
Charlotte (or Louisville)
Cincinnati (or Louisville)
Miami (or Louisville)
Montreal
Nashville (or Louisville)
Pittsburgh

 

WEST
Anaheim (or PDX/Vegas)
Denver
Houston
Kansas City
Oakland (or PDX/Vegas)
Phoenix (or PDX/Vegas)
San Diego
Vancouver

 

BASKETBALL

Western Conference

Pacific Division
Los Angeles
Phoenix
Portland
Sacramento (or Las Vegas)
San Diego (or Las Vegas)
San Francisco
Seattle
Vancouver

 

Midwest Division
Dallas
Denver
Houston
Kansas City
New Orleans
Salt Lake City
San Antonio
St Louis

 

Eastern Conference

Central
Chicago
Cleveland
Detroit
Indiana
Kentucky
Milwaukee
Minnesota
Toronto (or Buffalo)

 

Atlantic Division
Atlanta
Boston
Charlotte
Miami
New York
Orlando
Philadelphia
Washington, DC


BOX LACROSSE

Atlantic
Atlanta
Baltimore
Carolina
New York
Orlando
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
Washington

 

Northeast
Buffalo
Cleveland
Hamilton
Montreal
New England
Ottawa
Rochester (or Albany)
Toronto

 

Central
Chicago
Dallas
Detroit
Houston
Milwaukee
Minnesota
Saskatchewan
Winnipeg

 

Pacific
Calgary
Denver
Edmonton
Los Angeles
Portland
San Francisco
Seattle
Vancouver

 

GRIDIRON FOOTBALL (Spring)

International (or World) Conference
European East
Eligible Cities (5 Slots)

- Amsterdam, The Netherlands
- Berlin, Germany
- Brussels, Belgium
- Dusseldorf, Germany
- Frankfurt am Main, Germany
- Milan, Italy
- Rome, Italy
- Stockholm, Sweden
- Vienna, Austria

 

European West
Eligible Cities (5 Slots)

- Barcelona, Spain
- Dublin, Ireland
- Edinburgh, Scotland
- Glasgow, Scotland
- London, England
- Madrid, Spain
- Manchester, England
- Monte Carlo, Monaco
- Paris, France

 

Canadian East
Eligible Cities (5 Slots)

- Halifax, Nova Scotia
- Hamilton, Ontario
- Moncton, New Brunswick
- Montreal, Quebec
- Ottawa, Ontario
- Quebec City, Quebec
- Toronto, Ontario

 

Canadian West
Eligible Cities (5 Slots)

- Anchorage, Alaska
- Calgary, Alberta
- Edmonton, Alberta
- Regina, Saskatchewan
- Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
- Vancouver, British Columbia
- Winnipeg, Manitoba

 

United States Conference
Atlantic
Eligible Cities (5 Slots)

- Baltimore, Maryland
- Boston, Massachusetts
- Brooklyn, New York
- Buffalo, New York
- Hartford, Connecticut
- New York City
- Norfolk, Virginia
- Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
- Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
- Providence, Rhode Island
- Rochester, New York
- Virginia Beach, Virginia
- Washington, DC

 

Southern
Eligible Cities (5 Slots)

- Birmingham, Alabama
- Charlotte, North Carolina
- Jacksonville, Florida
- Louisville, Kentucky
- Memphis, Tennessee
- Nashville, Tennessee
- New Orleans, Louisiana
- Orlando, Florida
- Raleigh, North Carolina
- Shreveport, Louisiana
- St Petersburg, Florida
- Tampa, Florida

 

Central
Eligible Cities (5 Slots)

- Austin, Texas
- Chicago, Illinois
- Columbus, Ohio
- Dallas, Texas
- Detroit, Michigan
- Fargo, North Dakota
- Houston, Texas
- Indianapolis, Indiana
- Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
- Omaha, Nebraska
- San Antonio, Texas
- Tulsa, Oklahoma

 

Pacific
Eligible Cities (5 Slots)

- Albuquerque, New Mexico
- Anaheim, California
- Boise, Idaho
- Las Vegas, Nevada
- Los Angeles, California
- Oakland, California
- Portland, Oregon
- Sacramento, California
- Salt Lake City, Utah
- San Jose, California
- Tucson, Arizona

 

GRIDIRON FOOTBALL (Fall)

East
Eligible Cities: 5 Slots in Conference A; 5 Slots in Conference B

- Atlantic City, New Jersey
- Baltimore, Maryland
- Boston, Massachusetts
- Brooklyn, New York
- Buffalo, New York
- Hartford, Connecticut
- New York City
- Norfolk, Virginia
- Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
- Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
- Providence, Rhode Island
- Washington, DC

 

North
Eligible Cities: 5 Slots in Conference A; 5 Slots in Conference B

- Chicago, Illinois
- Cincinnati, Ohio
- Cleveland, Ohio
- Columbus, Ohio
- Detroit, Michigan
- Green Bay, Wisconsin
- Indianapolis, Indiana
- Kansas City, Missouri
- Milwaukee, Wisconsin
- Minneapolis, Minnesota
- Omaha, Nebraska
- Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
- St Louis, Missouri

 

South
Eligible Cities: 5 Slots in Conference A; 5 Slots in Conference B

- Atlanta, Georgia
- Charlotte, North Carolina
- Dallas, Texas
- Jacksonville, Florida
- Houston, Texas
- Louisville, Kentucky
- Kansas City, Missouri
- Memphis, Tennessee
- Miami, Florida
- Nashville, Tennessee
- New Orleans, Louisiana
- Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
- Orlando, Florida
- San Antonio, Texas
- St Louis, Missouri
- Tampa, Florida

 

West
Eligible Cities: 5 Slots in Conference A; 5 Slots in Conference B

- Albuquerque, New Mexico
- Anaheim, California
- Denver, Colorado
- Las Vegas, Nevada
- Los Angeles, California
- Oakland, California
- Phoenix, Arizona
- Portland, Oregon
- Sacramento, California
- Salt Lake City, Utah
- San Diego, California
- San Francisco, California
- San Jose, California
- Seattle, Washington

 

ICE HOCKEY

Pacific Division
Calgary
Denver
Edmonton
Los Angeles
Portland
San Jose
Seattle
Vancouver

 

Central Division
Chicago
Dallas
Houston
Kansas City
Milwaukee
Minnesota
St Louis
Winnipeg

 

Northeast Division
Buffalo
Detroit
Hamilton
Indianapolis
Montreal
Ottawa
Quebec City
Toronto

 

Atlantic Division
Boston
Charlotte
Cleveland
New York
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
Tampa Bay
Washington, DC

 

OUTDOOR SOCCER

Eastern Conference
Atlanta
Charlotte
Chicago
Columbus
Louisville
Montreal
New England
New Jersey
New York
Philadelphia
Rochester
Tampa Bay
Toronto
Washington, DC

 

Western Conference
Dallas
Denver
Houston
Kansas City
Las Vegas
Los Angeles
Minnesota
Portland
Salt Lake City
San Diego
San Jose
Seattle
Vancouver

 

C&C Welcome.

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I discovered you can do a full NCAA Basketball conference of schools that are in towns or cities with a Wegmans. Introducing THE WEGMANS CONFERENCE, and no, it's not even all Upstate NY like my throwaway AHL gag*

 

Buffalo

Canisius

Niagara

Cornell

Syracuse

Binghamton

LIU (Brooklyn)

Penn State

Lehigh

BC

Princeton

UVA

George Mason

NC State

and future realignment/expansion members

Navy

UNC

American/Georgetown

 

The Orange totally getting a bubble NCAA Tournament bid off an unspectacular run in this conference magnified by a loss at Canisius and a 4 point squeaker against Lehigh.

 

(*because Utica marks the Wegmans/Price Chopper divide in supermarkets in Upstate NY)

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I recall also reading that some MILB teams could become more geographically aligned with their big league counterpart.

 

If this is the case, who can you see being moved around and to where?

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My idea of what a 32-Team MLB would look like:

 

  • AMERICAN LEAGUE
    • EAST
      • Baltimore Orioles
      • Boston Red Sox
      • Charlotte Knights (EXPANSION)
      • Cleveland Indians
      • Detroit Tigers
      • New York Yankees
      • Tampa Bay Rays
      • Toronto Blue Jays
    • WEST
      • Chicago White Sox
      • Houston Astros
      • Kansas City Royals
      • Los Angeles/Long Beach/Anaheim Angels
      • Minnesota Twins
      • Oakland A's
      • Seattle Mariners
      • Texas Rangers
  • NATIONAL LEAGUE
    • EAST
      • Atlanta Braves
      • Cincinnati Reds
      • Miami Marlins
      • Montreal Expos (EXPANSION)
      • New York Mets
      • Philadelphia Phillies
      • Pittsburgh Pirates
      • Washington Nationals
    • WEST
      • Arizona Diamondbacks
      • Chicago Cubs
      • Colorado Rockies
      • Los Angeles Dodgers
      • Milwaukee Brewers
      • St. Louis Cardinals
      • San Diego Padres
      • San Francisco Giants

 

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In light of the leaking of the list of the 42 teams targeted for elimination from Minor League Baseball, I have worked out a potential alignment of MiLB's New World Order. Some of it is simple, some very complex:

 

AAA

International League

Buffalo, Lehigh Valley, Rochester, Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, Syracuse, Worcester

Charlotte, Durham, Gwinnett, Norfolk

Columbus, Indianapolis, Louisville. Memphis, Nashville, Toledo

Iowa, Omaha, St. Paul, Wichita

 

Pacific Coast League

Albuquerque, El Paso, Oklahoma City, Round Rock, San Antonio

Las Vegas, Reno, Sacramento, Salt Lake, Tacoma

 

AA

Eastern League

Akron, Altoona, Bowie, Brooklyn, Dayton, Harrisburg, Hartford, New Hampshire, Portland, Reading, Trenton, West Michigan

 

Southern League

Arkansas, Biloxi, Birmingham, Jacksonville, Mississippi, Montgomery, Pensacola, Richmond, Rocket City, Tennessee

 

Texas League

Amarillo, Corpus Christi, Frisco, Midland, NW Arkansas, Springfield MO, Sugarland, Tulsa

 

High-A

California League

Fresno, Lake Elsinore, Modesto, Rancho Cucamonga, San Bernardino, San Jose, Stockton, Visalia

 

Carolina League

Aberdeen, Asheville, Carolina, Down East, Fayetteville, Fredericksburg, Greensboro, Hickory, Kannapolis, Lynchburg, Salem, Winston-Salem

 

Florida State League

Bradenton, Charlotte, Clearwater, Dunedin, Fort Myers, Jupiter, Lakeland, Palm Beach, St. Lucie. Tampa

 

Low-A

Midwest League

Beloit or Quad Cities, Bowling Green, Cedar Rapids, Fort Wayne, Great Lakes, Kane County, Lansing, Peoria, South Bend, Wiscnsin

 

New York-Penn League(For lack of better options)

Delmarva, Hudson Valley, Lake County, Lakewood, Staten Island, Tri-City(NY), West Virginia Black Bears, Wilmington

 

Northwest League

Boise, Eugene, Everett, Hillsboro, Spokane, Vancouver

 

South Atlantic League

Augusta, Charleston(SC), Columbia, Greenville, Myrtle Beach, Rome

 

Any suggestions, thoughts, and/or blind rage at my realignment?

Edited by buzzcut
Further revisions.

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