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Lebron James making it to 8 straight Finals is superhuman. Trying to discount it is like if, out of nowhere, Superman became a real life person and flew around the Earth so fast he made it rotate backwards, and you saw that and said "OK, but Earth is a pretty tiny planet with not a lot of gravity. If he was as powerful as people say he is he should've spun Jupiter backwards." At some point it turns into goalpost moving and ignoring an incredible feat of sports history. I am not a Lebron James fanboy, I'm not a basketball nut, but it's just better to see an awesome athlete of my time and enjoy his career unfolding without trying to undercut it or, worse, make me upset and angry like it's some human rights violation for a player or a team to be great (even at the expense of teams that I like).

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It's not exactly a hard question to answer and you're making it needlessly more complicated than it has to be just to defend him. 

 

Forgive me for defending a guy who's made the finals 8 years in a row. If you put him on the Kings he probably doesn't make 8 straight finals. But if he's on the Kings then the rest of the league is different. If he played in the Dleague making 8 straight Dleague finals would be impressive. You're criticizing him for his own greatness. 

 

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Give him the same calibre of teams he's had over the years, but in The West. Where he has to go through Kawhi's Spurs, Kobe's Lakers, Grizzlies, Curry's Warriors, The Rockets, etc over the years, does he replicate the dominance he has in The East? You know the answer is no he doesn't. 

 

Give him the same caliber of teams he's had over the years, but he has to wear rollerskates and the other teams get to start with a 20 point lead? does he replicate the dominance he has in the East? You know the answer is no he doesn't. 

 

That's what your hypothetical is. It's nonsense because we can only go off of what's actually happened. 

 

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So why is it so hard to accept that he's benefitted by staying in the weaker conference and that diminishes those kind of achievements?

 

He has benefited from playing in the Eastern Conference, but it's still the NBA and he's still playing against world class players.

 

Listen to yourself - a guy made 8 straight finals in this day and age and you're like "NOT IMPRESSED". Maybe if it was like 3 or 4 you might be able to say he lucked into it, like the 02/03 Nets kind of just won a weak conference, but it's 8. As in 2 times 4. Take Charles Barkley's 1 finals appearance, now multiply that by 8. Take Malone and Stockton's 2 Jazz finals appearances, add them together, multiply that by 2 and you get 8. Take all of Shaq's finals appearances, now add 2. Most guys in the NBA don't even play 8 years total. 8 straight is Bill Russell stuff. That's :censored: we never thought we'd see again and you're like "yeah but like the Raptors". The current Orlando Magic roster would destroy the 86 Celtics. These  are real good basketball players he's playing here. 

 

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Like bragging about all the division titles The Patriots won. Sure it's impressive, and may not happen again, but it's not that impressive when you realize the lack of any real competition they faced for it. 

 

That's you not understanding how good the competition is and how good he has to be to beat them. He never got injured, an opponent never put together a team good enough to knock him off, he's played the equivalent of two extra seasons in intense games and still made it to June every year. These are the best basketball players in the world and he still beats them every year. If you don't understand why that's impressive by now you're being willfully obtuse. 

 

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53 minutes ago, ozzyman314 said:

The yadda yadda, The buncha words, The same arguement, The blah blah blah...

 

 

Seriously, now PLEASE tell me why you keep capitalizing the The.  Please.  I can't just keep reading this without some sort of explanation.

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As done by others or even myself for the LeBron's return to Cleveland...

 

Those on this board rarely or never criticize Magic Johnson for his nine NBA Finals appearances in his first 12 seasons.  Only the Moses Malone Rockets (81), Twin Towers Rockets (86) and the KJ/Chambers Suns (90).  I'm not going to count his comeback season in which he lost to HOU yet again. 

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30 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

Consistency, man. That’s why. 

You have, for over a year now, been saying that the Celtics were going to run away with the East and challenge the Warriors. 

 

Now that LeBron’s Cavs have beaten them? You can’t shut up about how the East sucks and LeBron is dominating basketball’s equivalent of the Arena Football League (which is laughable in and of itself).

 

You went from praising the Celtics as the next team to take the NBA by storm to saying the entire East sucks anyway so LeBron’s dominance doesn’t really count.

 

It all just makes you look salty and bitter about the fact that the Cavs beat the Celtics. 

Learn to live with it and stop making laughably absurd assertions.

"Absurd assertions" Now that's some hilarious irony. 

If it helps you feel better then sure, You're already proving to be willfully ignorant. 

23 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

 

Forgive me for defending a guy who's made the finals 8 years in a row. If you put him on the Kings he probably doesn't make 8 straight finals. But if he's on the Kings then the rest of the league is different. If he played in the Dleague making 8 straight Dleague finals would be impressive. You're criticizing him for his own greatness. 

I'm criticizing the fact he has hasn't has faced serious competition in those 8 years, so it's not that impressive when you compare the teams The East has had to The West. Like it or not the fact he played in The East while The West teams were the ones really staked hurts his legacy. 

 

24 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

Give him the same caliber of teams he's had over the years, but he has to wear rollerskates and the other teams get to start with a 20 point lead? does he replicate the dominance he has in the East? You know the answer is no he doesn't. 

 

That's what your hypothetical is. It's nonsense because we can only go off of what's actually happened. 

 

Not really considering the only real struggles he had was against those Westen teams in The Finals. 

 

27 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

He has benefited from playing in the Eastern Conference, but it's still the NBA and he's still playing against world class players.

 

Listen to yourself - a guy made 8 straight finals in this day and age and you're like "NOT IMPRESSED". Maybe if it was like 3 or 4 you might be able to say he lucked into it, like the 02/03 Nets kind of just won a weak conference, but it's 8. As in 2 times 4. Take Charles Barkley's 1 finals appearance, now multiply that by 8. Take Malone and Stockton's 2 Jazz finals appearances, add them together, multiply that by 2 and you get 8. Take all of Shaq's finals appearances, now add 2. Most guys in the NBA don't even play 8 years total. 8 straight is Bill Russell stuff. That's :censored: we never thought we'd see again and you're like "yeah but like the Raptors". The current Orlando Magic roster would destroy the 86 Celtics. These  are real good basketball players he's playing here. 

 

Yeah, and look at the teams he had to face in those 8 years compared to The teams in The Western Conference. You act like The Teams he's faced were absolutely amazingly stacked teams. They were great but not as good as The Team's out West, Where most of those teams could have at least challenged Lebron. 

Dominating for 8 straight isn't impressive when there was almost never any challenge or adversity to it.

 

 

44 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

That's you not understanding how good the competition is and how good he has to be to beat them. He never got injured, an opponent never put together a team good enough to knock him off, he's played the equivalent of two extra seasons in intense games and still made it to June every year. These are the best basketball players in the world and he still beats them every year. If you don't understand why that's impressive by now you're being willfully obtuse. 

 

So Sorry you're too blinded by your admiration of Lebron to realize him taking advantage of a weaker conference that's hasn't had a truly stacked team to challenge him since like 2012 isn't that impressive. 

The West has The Kawhi Spurs, Kobe Lakers, Curry's Warriors. How many teams like that has The East had?

Making 8 straight Finals when having to go through some of those teams through The Years, now that would be an accomplishment. 

 

Again, it's not a hard or terrible thing to acknowledge that his legacy will be hurt a bit because he played in a weaker conference while all the stronger teams were out West, and he has a losing record when having to face those teams. 

The Fact he only has 3 rings when he's going to his 8th Final kind of proves his dominance is more a product of how bad the East has been in those years. 

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4 minutes ago, ozzyman314 said:

"Absurd assertions" Now that's some hilarious irony. 

If it helps you feel better then sure, You're already proving to be willfully ignorant. 

I'm criticizing the fact he has hasn't has faced serious competition in those 8 years, so it's not that impressive when you compare the teams The East has had to The West. Like it or not the fact he played in The East while The West teams were the ones really staked hurts his legacy. 

 

That's you not understanding how good the competition is and how good he has to be to beat them. He never got injured, an opponent never put together a team good enough to knock him off, he's played the equivalent of two extra seasons in intense games and still made it to June every year. These are the best basketball players in the world and he still beats them every year. If you don't understand why that's impressive by now you're being willfully obtuse. 

 

4 minutes ago, ozzyman314 said:

Not really considering the only real struggles he had was against those Westen teams in The Finals. 

 

That's you not understanding how good the competition is and how good he has to be to beat them. He never got injured, an opponent never put together a team good enough to knock him off, he's played the equivalent of two extra seasons in intense games and still made it to June every year. These are the best basketball players in the world and he still beats them every year. If you don't understand why that's impressive by now you're being willfully obtuse. 

4 minutes ago, ozzyman314 said:

Yeah, and look at the teams he had to face in those 8 years compared to The teams in The Western Conference. You act like The Teams he's faced were absolutely amazingly stacked teams. They were great but not as good as The Team's out West, Where most of those teams could have at least challenged Lebron. 

Dominating for 8 straight isn't impressive when there was almost never any challenge or adversity to it.

 

That's you not understanding how good the competition is and how good he has to be to beat them. He never got injured, an opponent never put together a team good enough to knock him off, he's played the equivalent of two extra seasons in intense games and still made it to June every year. These are the best basketball players in the world and he still beats them every year. If you don't understand why that's impressive by now you're being willfully obtuse. 

4 minutes ago, ozzyman314 said:

 

So Sorry you're too blinded by your admiration of Lebron to realize him taking advantage of a weaker conference that's hasn't had a truly stacked team to challenge him since like 2012 isn't that impressive. 

The West has The Kawhi Spurs, Kobe Lakers, Curry's Warriors. How many teams like that has The East had?

Making 8 straight Finals when having to go through some of those teams through The Years, now that would be an accomplishment. 

 

That's you not understanding how good the competition is and how good he has to be to beat them. He never got injured, an opponent never put together a team good enough to knock him off, he's played the equivalent of two extra seasons in intense games and still made it to June every year. These are the best basketball players in the world and he still beats them every year. If you don't understand why that's impressive by now you're being willfully obtuse. 

 

4 minutes ago, ozzyman314 said:

Again, it's not a hard or terrible thing to acknowledge that his legacy will be hurt a bit because he played in a weaker conference while all the stronger teams were out West, and he has a losing record when having to face those teams. 

The Fact he only has 3 rings when he's going to his 8th Final kind of proves his dominance is more a product of how bad the East has been in those years. 

 

That's you not understanding how good the competition is and how good he has to be to beat them. He never got injured, an opponent never put together a team good enough to knock him off, he's played the equivalent of two extra seasons in intense games and still made it to June every year. These are the best basketball players in the world and he still beats them every year. If you don't understand why that's impressive by now you're being willfully obtuse. 

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LeBron is great, easily the pinnacle player of this generation. The Celtics will probably be back next year (healthy) and end up getting revenge, but we'll see what happens. So with that said... please...

 

Image result for stop it gif

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You can repeat the same garbage over and over, it doesn't mean :censored: when you are deliberately ignoring the facts.

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1 minute ago, ozzyman314 said:

You can repeat the same garbage over and over, it doesn't mean :censored: when you are deliberately ignoring the facts.

 

Oh. Oh god. The sweet, sweet, sweet irony.

 

 

14 minutes ago, ozzyman314 said:

Again, it's not a hard or terrible thing to acknowledge that his legacy will be hurt a bit because he played in a weaker conference while all the stronger teams were out West, and he has a losing record when having to face those teams. 

 

No one will be thinking about this in 10 years.

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11 minutes ago, Still MIGHTY said:

 

Oh. Oh god. The sweet, sweet, sweet irony.

you should really look up words before you use them. 

 

11 minutes ago, Still MIGHTY said:

 

No one will be thinking about this in 10 years.

you seriously don't think people are going to question the supposed dominance of a guy that made 8 consecutive Finals but only has 3 rings to show for it? 

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I'm enthused that a Patriots fan is unaware that a division or conference full of other teams not being capable, over the course of 15+ years, of building a team both physically but also mentally talented enough to knock off the favorite isn't something that the favorite has to apologize for.

 

I mean, the AFC East since 2001. FFS man. Nobody knocks Tom Brady or Bill Belichick's legacy for this stuff, even though it's accepted knowledge that the Patriots have benefited immensely from those three teams' general suckage over the years in the form of better seeding, bye weeks, and home-field advantage in the playoffs year after year. You won't apologize for it, the Patriots won't apologize for it, and nor should you. It's not their fault. They're the beneficiaries of circumstance.

 

And so is Lebron. He'd be a fool to go to the West if he sees better opportunities to win championships in the East. 

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16 minutes ago, ozzyman314 said:

You can repeat the same garbage over and over, it doesn't mean :censored: when you are deliberately ignoring the facts.

 

Huh. Funny how that works. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's a picture I drew of Lebron James on my tablet. 

 

lebron_james_dribbble.png

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4 minutes ago, ozzyman314 said:

you seriously don't think people are going to question the supposed dominance of a guy that made 8 consecutive Finals but only has 3 rings to show for it? 

Probably not because his win in Cleveland (where he led the Cavs to victory from down 3-1 against the greatest regular season team in history) will go down as one of the greatest NBA Finals of all time. 

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6 minutes ago, ozzyman314 said:

you should really look up words before you use them. 

 

And you should really quit while you're behind.

 

6 minutes ago, ozzyman314 said:

you seriously don't think people are going to question the supposed dominance of a guy that made 8 consecutive Finals but only has 3 rings to show for it? 

 

No. Because we'll just recognize he's great, if not the greatest, and not wring our hands over this sort of petty, bitter, sour grapes bull :censored: .

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Let's see: LeBron has had to face the Spurs dynasty, Warriors dynasty, a good Dallas team and a good OKC team. I think 3 titles is pretty good considering the opposition.

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2 minutes ago, Kramerica Industries said:

I'm enthused that a Patriots fan is unaware that a division or conference full of other teams not being capable, over the course of 15+ years, of building a team both physically but also mentally talented enough to knock off the favorite isn't something that the favorite has to apologize for.

 

I mean, the AFC East since 2001. FFS man. Nobody knocks Tom Brady or Bill Belichick's legacy for this stuff, even though it's accepted knowledge that the Patriots have benefited immensely from those three teams' general suckage over the years in the form of better seeding, bye weeks, and home-field advantage in the playoffs year after year. You won't apologize for it, the Patriots won't apologize for it, and nor should you. It's not their fault. Their the beneficiaries of circumstance.

 

And so is Lebron. He'd be a fool to go to the West if he sees better opportunities to win championships in the East. 

The Patriots dominance in their division is part of my point actually. Lauding Lebron for his "8 straight finals" is like lauding The Patriots for their 16 division titles since 2018. 

It's not worth bragging about when you realize the lack of competition they faced to reach that. 

 

11 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

Probably not because his win in Cleveland (where he led the Cavs to victory from down 3-1 agaknst the greatest regular season team in history) will go down as one of the greatest NBA Finals of all time. 

No one outside of Lebron fanboys are going to care so much about that 1 title. 

 

6 minutes ago, Still MIGHTY said:

No. Because we'll just recognize he's great, if not the greatest, and not wring our hands over this sort of petty, bitter, sour grapes bull :censored: .

So you'd rather ignore all the facts and circumstances regarding his accomplishments and just blindly, unquestionably accept them?

That's not smart, or healthy. 

 

2 minutes ago, Wings said:

Let's see: LeBron has had to face the Spurs dynasty, Warriors dynasty, a good Dallas team and a good OKC team. I think 3 titles is pretty good considering the opposition.

And now imagine him have to face those teams in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round of The playoffs every year? Does he still dominate and make The Finals every year like in The East? 

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11 minutes ago, Wings said:

Let's see: LeBron has had to face the Spurs dynasty, Warriors dynasty, a good Dallas team and a good OKC team. I think 3 titles is pretty good considering the opposition.

If anything, that'll be underplayed.  While I don't think that many people will remember how good the East was/wasn't, they also won'd remember that he went up against some really, really good teams in the Finals.  Golden State and San Antonio, in particular. He and his team should have beaten Dallas and OKC.  So the Dallas thing hurts.

 

But ten years from now, he'll be 3-6 (or maybe 3-8 or something) and 2007 will essentially be held against him just as much as 2011.  We don't have the will to discuss nuance to give him a break for difficult circumstances, like a top-5 player signing with a 73-win team.  And we certainly don't have the will to get into how great his conferene titles are vis a vis the rest of  the conference.  Overall, these things are kind of a wash or maybe will even do his Legacy a disservice (3-6!  Not as good as Kobe).  

 

I've always been of two unpopular opinions: 1) circumstances matter and 2) 0-1 in the finals is better than 0-0.

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23 minutes ago, ozzyman314 said:

So you'd rather ignore all the facts and circumstances regarding his accomplishments and just blindly, unquestionably accept them?

That's not smart, or healthy.

 

(Sigh... why do I bother engaging...) No, that's not what I'm doing. What I'm doing is using what I've seen with my own two eyes and recognizing how incredible LeBron is and what he's done and not giving myself an aneurysm over a basketball player.

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Why does it need to be one or the other? Bringing a title to Cleveland in '16 and making eight consecutive Finals is a hell of an accomplishment. Even if he ends up with a 3-6 Finals record, the fact he even has a Finals record puts him in company with the truly elite players that make most people's Top 10. At the same time, if you're debating the GOAT aspect, a higher ratio of runner up finishes and circumstances of the league do add the context and make it more convincing for the "MJ is the best" crowd.

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How is this still happening? Why is it still happening?

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