2019-2020 MLB Offseason Thread

[Digby]

32 minutes ago, Marlins93 said:

This is only a slap on the wrist for everyone involved. How disappointing.

 

I guess Manfred can go back to trying to shave off another 17 seconds off each game now.

 

I mean I’m much more bothered by games taking three and a half hours than the horrors of letting players watch live TV in the 2010s, personally!

[Wings]

Now is the time for the A's to take over the AL West.......but then lose in the playoff like they always do until they get their new ballpark in 2097. 

[Brian in Boston]

1 hour ago, Marlins93 said:

I guess Manfred can go back to trying to shave off another 17 seconds off each game now.

I'll have you know that Commissioner Rob Manfred is the only thing that stands between the sacred institution that is Major League Baseball and the 42 minor league baseball teams that are hell-bent on destroying the United States of America's National Pastime. The only thing! How dare you sully his name? Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?

[AustinFromBoston]

Interesting little tidbit from Logan Morrison. 

 

I do believe without a doubt that there are more teams than just the Astros & Red Sox that have used video to steal signs. But I don't think MLB would put in the time & effort into pursuing all of them.  

[goalieboy82]

12 minutes ago, AustinFomBoston said:

Interesting little tidbit from Logan Morrison. 

 

I do believe without a doubt that there are more teams than just the Astros & Red Sox that have used video to steal signs. But I don't think MLB would put in the time & effort into pursuing all of them.  

I think they will end up being the sacrificial lambs (if there are a lot teams doing this). everyone else is going to end up on double secret probation.  

[DEAD!]

So where are the suspensions for the players? If MLB really wanted to punish the Astros, suspend all of them for a significant amount of time. Say, half a season. 

[Wings]

Pretty rough two days for Houston sports (Texans & Astros)

[dont care]

6 hours ago, DEAD! said:

So where are the suspensions for the players? If MLB really wanted to punish the Astros, suspend all of them for a significant amount of time. Say, half a season. 

But why punish players for following along with a scheme that was created by the coaches?

[DEAD!]

4 hours ago, dont care said:

But why punish players for following along with a scheme that was created by the coaches?

I robbed a bank by executing a scheme created by my "boss"

[BBTV]

11 hours ago, DEAD! said:

So where are the suspensions for the players? If MLB really wanted to punish the Astros, suspend all of them for a significant amount of time. Say, half a season. 

gotta go through the players union to get to the players. Much easier to punish coaches/execs

[dont care]

2 hours ago, DEAD! said:

I robbed a bank by executing a scheme created by my "boss"

Were you contractually obligated to do what your boss says. The only thing you can say the players did wrong is they didn’t say anything, but then you risk being black balled. Is a lose lose situation as a player so you might as well go with the way that you continue to make money and possibly win a championship.

[Digby]

I thought this Passan take on the whole affair was pretty good, with all the other owners getting mad about it. https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28477741/why-anger-boiling-scenes-houston-astros-sign-stealing-punishments

 

I mean -- I don't think this rises anywhere near to the level of the Black Sox guys throwing games, there are just too many variables in a baseball game and it seems clear to me that these offenses are more marginal advantages than affronts to the sanctity of the game. But I do agree that it's gross how everyone involved is just throwing people below them on the org chart under the bus (That whiny Luhnow statement, dear God!), and the Astros' weasel owner gets to skate on by even with this following the garbage around the SI reporter last year. The players may have their union but we know who are really the unpunishable ones here.

[pmoehrin]

9 hours ago, Digby said:

I thought this Passan take on the whole affair was pretty good, with all the other owners getting mad about it. https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28477741/why-anger-boiling-scenes-houston-astros-sign-stealing-punishments

 

I mean -- I don't think this rises anywhere near to the level of the Black Sox guys throwing games, there are just too many variables in a baseball game and it seems clear to me that these offenses are more marginal advantages than affronts to the sanctity of the game. But I do agree that it's gross how everyone involved is just throwing people below them on the org chart under the bus (That whiny Luhnow statement, dear God!), and the Astros' weasel owner gets to skate on by even with this following the garbage around the SI reporter last year. The players may have their union but we know who are really the unpunishable ones here.

 

Everyone compares this to Pete Rose, steroids, and the Black Sox, but I draw a bigger parallel to the Saints/Sean Payton bounty-gate scandal.

 

As with New Orleans, I don't think what the Astros did was that big of a deal, but like the Saints, they were caught red-handed (more than once), were told to stop, and they didn't.

 

I think it got to the point where MLB figured look, talking to them doesn't work, fining them doesn't work, so rather than try to solve the problem again, let's just ban them and remove the problem altogether.

[Marlins93]

11 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

gotta go through the players union to get to the players. Much easier to punish coaches/execs

Sure, that's an obstacle but if the report finds that specific players broke the rules about using electronics to steal signs, MLB should be able to dish out some kind of penalty. I understand not banning them for life or for even a full season, but 50-81 games is a fair penalty and a reasonable deterrent.

 

I do think something needs to happen to Carlos Beltran, though. Based on his reported involvement in this I find it outrageous that he's allowed to manage an MLB team (even if Mets) for the entire 2020 season.

[GDAWG]

Red Sox have fired Alex Cora

 

 

 

[Digby]

Knew that was coming, only question was before or after the next report. I loved Cora as Sox manager, so this is a bummer.

[The Six]

8 hours ago, pmoehrin said:

 

Everyone compares this to Pete Rose, steroids, and the Black Sox, but I draw a bigger parallel to the Saints/Sean Payton bounty-gate scandal.

 

As with New Orleans, I don't think what the Astros did was that big of a deal, but like the Saints, they were caught red-handed (more than once), were told to stop, and they didn't.

 

What about the Patriots, who find a new way to cheat every year?

[AustinFromBoston]

I do wonder if Corra, Hinch, and Luhnow will still be able to find a job in baseball once this is all over. 

[dfwabel]

8 hours ago, pmoehrin said:

 

Everyone compares this to Pete Rose, steroids, and the Black Sox, but I draw a bigger parallel to the Saints/Sean Payton bounty-gate scandal.

 

As with New Orleans, I don't think what the Astros did was that big of a deal, but like the Saints, they were caught red-handed (more than once), were told to stop, and they didn't.

 

I think it got to the point where MLB figured look, talking to them doesn't work, fining them doesn't work, so rather than try to solve the problem again, let's just ban them and remove the problem altogether.

The difference was Bountygate was coach-driven with Gregg Williams designing it, put his own money into it, then lied to the League and independent investigators. 

In the Astros case, MLB claims it was, "an initiative that was planned or directed by the Club’s top baseball operations officials. Rather, the 2017 scheme in which players banged on a trash can was, with the exception of Cora, player-driven and player-executed."

[BBTV]

1 hour ago, Marlins93 said:

Sure, that's an obstacle but if the report finds that specific players broke the rules about using electronics to steal signs, MLB should be able to dish out some kind of penalty. I understand not banning them for life or for even a full season, but 50-81 games is a fair penalty and a reasonable deterrent.

 

Only if the CBA allows for suspensions of that length for anything other than PEDs.  Even if it did, I doubt that 'sign stealing' is on the list of things that would warrant it.  The commissioner can't just unilaterally suspend players based on what he thinks is "fair and reasonable".  The most he could probably do is put them on that special list that they put woman beaters on, but even then, they still get paid.