2019-2020 MLB Offseason Thread

[Digby]

Right -- and I get the legal protections there, but it does make the whole affair feel more absurd that these guys are getting worse punishments than the 'roiders who actually tried to ruin people's lives in their cover-ups. Though maybe I'm the only person who feels that way, based on sentiment of MLB Twitter and Reddit this week. Anyway, unions work!

[rams80]

11 hours ago, dfwabel said:

The difference was Bountygate was coach-driven with Gregg Williams designing it, put his own money into it, then lied to the League and independent investigators. 

In the Astros case, MLB claims it was, "an initiative that was planned or directed by the Club’s top baseball operations officials. Rather, the 2017 scheme in which players banged on a trash can was, with the exception of Cora, player-driven and player-executed."

 

Of course Gregg Williams still gets work and I would bet money that he still ran a bounty system while he was with the Rams, at least.

[dont care]

2 hours ago, rams80 said:

 

Of course Gregg Williams still gets work and I would bet money that he still ran a bounty system while he was with the Rams, at least.

Doubt it, you know once players leave what ever team he’s on they would be ratting him out for their own health. 

[BBTV]

13 hours ago, Digby said:

Right -- and I get the legal protections there, but it does make the whole affair feel more absurd that these guys are getting worse punishments than the 'roiders who actually tried to ruin people's lives in their cover-ups. Though maybe I'm the only person who feels that way, based on sentiment of MLB Twitter and Reddit this week. Anyway, unions work!

To quote the rock, “it doesn’t matter how you feel”. I’ve posted long rants about my opinion of sign stealing, and that IMO it’s not the worst thing in the world, and as technology advances, you can’t just say “don’t use the video cam that’s right in front of you”, you need to advance the way the signs are delivered. There’s plenty of ways to do this. In the mean time, “don’t do it” isn’t a good control. Steroids were way worse 

[pmoehrin]

I think a big reason why MLB didn't go after any individual players is because what player is going to turn down being involved in a sign-stealing scheme? Even if you don't like it, you're going to get some looks in the locker room if you say no. I don't want to put a player in a situation where they have to decide between getting crap from their teammates or doing something that would risk suspension. All that's going to do is breed content and resentment from players towards league officials.

 

Its 100% on AJ Hinch to say "hey, I just got off the phone with the league office, and you guys need to cut this crap out, otherwise clean out your locker because we neither need nor want you." Alex Cora should have been fired on the spot as soon as his role in all of this came to light. But nothing like that was never said, and Alex Cora wound up getting a promotion for his efforts.

 

I think the most interesting thing written in that nine-page report was what was said about Brandon Taubman. That is the Astros front office employee that was fired for making inappropriate comments towards a group of female reports. Its an egregious issue in own right, but on the surface it has nothing to do with the Astros sign-stealing scheme. Here's what was written:

 

Quote

But while no one can dispute that Luhnow's baseball operations department is an industry leader in its analytics, it is very clear to me that the culture of the baseball operations department, manifesting itself in the way its employees are treated, its relations with other Clubs, and its relations with the media and external stakeholders, has been very problematic. At least in my view, the baseball operations department's insular culture – one that valued and rewarded results over other considerations, combined with a staff of individuals who often lacked direction or sufficient oversight, led, at least in part, to the Brandon Taubman incident, the Club's admittedly inappropriate and inaccurate response to that incident, and finally, to an environment that allowed the conduct described in this report to have occurred.

 

In short, its MLB saying nobody of significance in the Astros organization cares about the rules or even common decency.

 

From a personal perspective, its interesting to me because I've made no secret about wanting to work for an MLB team one day in front office capacity, and the Astros are one of the teams I applied for. I never heard back from them, but one notable thing about their application was that it was the most invasive when it came to asking personal questions. Have you ever been fired was the second question on the application. At the time, I wrote it off as Texas law giving companies more rights to ask questions than most states allow, but now I think there may have been something more to it. Their job application was the only one I ever filled out for a team that asked me to vet myself.

Now I find out almost two years later the Astros probably had the most toxic work-environment of any MLB team because their front office is top to bottom wall street bros. They didn't hire 20 new people to run the analytics department. They hired one person 20 times over.

The sign-stealing, the disregard for old school scouting, the disregard for Minor League towns, the sexism, it all makes sense once you understand who works there. That for me is the story beneath the story. How is MLB going to contend with these Wolf of Street types that are not only trying to take over the sport, but are also trying chase out anyone with a dissenting opinion or attitude?

[rams80]

14 hours ago, dont care said:

Doubt it, you know once players leave what ever team he’s on they would be ratting him out for their own health. 

 

I'm just going to say that the decision making displayed by Ram defenders during his tenure makes a lot more sense if you figured they had financial incentives to act a certain way.

[Gary]

Carlos Beltran out as Manager of the Mets for his involvement in the Astros incident. Was he involved as a player and knew about and partaked? Or is it because he played for the Astros in 2017?

[heavybass]

Pretty much anyone involved with the Astros for the last few years at this point is damaged goods

[pmoehrin]

31 minutes ago, Gary. said:

Carlos Beltran out as Manager of the Mets for his involvement in the Astros incident. Was he involved as a player and knew about and partaked? Or is it because he played for the Astros in 2017?

 

He was the point man of the scheme. Without him, there may not have been sign-stealing scandal in the first place.

[TBGKon]

On 1/13/2020 at 6:00 PM, dont care said:

I don’t get how this is a slap on the wrist. What more would you want them to do? 2 people have essentially been banned for life possibly, another probably on the way, 4 high draft picks are being stripped and they got fined the max a team can be fined. 

The couldve considered postseason bans, but i feel like the Players union would get involved if that happened.

[BBTV]

Post season bans would kill a team’s attendance, ability to sign players, and potentially alienate fans. That’s way too harsh, and counter productive to the best interest of the sport. 

[tp49]

2 hours ago, Gary. said:

Carlos Beltran out as Manager of the Mets for his involvement in the Astros incident. Was he involved as a player and knew about and partaked? Or is it because he played for the Astros in 2017?

Beltran was the only player named in the Commissioner's Office statement which is why there was heat on him.  To me the issue speaks more of to use a term seen more in the NCAA, as a lack of institutional control in Houston.  Even if Beltran was the originator or ringleader of what went on coaches and the manager had the responsibility to tell them to end it which Cora and Hinch didn't and is why Hinch's punishment was what it was.  Cora's is presumed to be worse because of what came out from Boston.

 

It was reported that Beltran wasn't going to face any punishment from this.  I also tend to believe that Beltran could have survived this depending on how he dealt with the media in the aftermath.  Whether he ultimately made the choice to depart or the choice was made for him by the Mets who knows.  The question now is where do the Mets go.

[Digby]

Oh my god, it is the most Mets thing in the world to fire a manager before he ever managed a game for them due to a scandal they weren't involved in.

[pmoehrin]

23 minutes ago, tp49 said:

The question now is where do the Mets go.

 

Onward and upward as they always go. Going forward I don't foresee any more embarrassment for this franchise.

[The_Admiral]

2 hours ago, Digby said:

Oh my god, it is the most Mets thing in the world to fire a manager before he ever managed a game for them due to a scandal they weren't involved in.

The Diamondbacks actually did this to Wally Backman, a former Met, so yes, you're right!

 

2 hours ago, pmoehrin said:

Onward and upward as they always go. Going forward I don't foresee any more embarrassment for this franchise.

Low-key one of the funniest posts in days.

[Marlins93]

I wonder what happens to Beltran's hall of fame chances now. In my view, he's done more damage to the integrity of the game than Bonds, Clemens, and Rose did. And I think that the steroids guys should be in; on the fence about Rose.

[Davey]

Anyone following the latest news regarding The Astros and, Altuve?

[FiddySicks]

So Mike Trout is this generation’s Barry Bonds, huh?

[Wings]

As for all these cheaters stealing signs the 1951 New York Giants say hold my beer. 

[The_Admiral]

2 hours ago, Davey said:

Anyone following the latest news regarding The Astros and, Altuve?

 

Maybe Buzzfeed is covering someone feeding him buzzes.