2020-2021 NHL Changes

[Ridleylash]

23 minutes ago, Wade Heidt said:

The double-flag Canes logo is an example of a good-looking secondary logo and shoulder patch.  To me, it does not work well as a primary crest on the jersey.  Maybe it is the symmetry of how it looks on the front of the jersey, but just don't like it as a primary crest.

Honestly, the current primary isn't much better at not looking like a shoulder logo, in my opinion. Besides, Pittsburgh has a gigantic jersey logo that takes up like half of the torso and nobody seems to mind it, so I find it hard to believe the double flag would somehow be egregiously large;

 

20 minutes ago, Chromatic said:

The double flag sucks. Its awkward and off balanced, and it looks clipart-y. The single flag may not have been technically accurate as far as the name "Hurricanes" goes, but it looked much better as a logo. It doesn't help that they chose to stick it on a black ice jersey either.

I'd say the current primary is worse about it, honestly; it's a pair of jagged shapes with a swoosh and a couple of overlapping ovals in the center. The flag is at least a distinct object related to hurricanes, the current logo is almost too abstract for its own good.

[sky1324]

I'd rather the Hurricanes develop the double-flag further, really playing up that aspect of their identity can help separate them from the other red and black teams. It starts with actually using the pattern on the hem, but I think if they were to figure out a way to properly "box" the two flags (maybe with the outline of NC & SC behind it for balance), it could be a really strong primary logo. As it is now, it's too tall and not balanced enough to work well as a primary crest.

[The_Admiral]

3 minutes ago, Ridleylash said:

I'd say the current primary is worse about it, honestly; it's a pair of jagged shapes with a swoosh and a couple of overlapping ovals in the center. The flag is at least a distinct object related to hurricanes, the current logo is almost too abstract for its own good.

 

It's supposed to be a stylized hurricane symbol with a hockey puck in the middle. (Some have argued it's a pair of Cs for the two Carolinas but that seems like gilding the lily to me.) But because it's not executed very well and no one likes Peter Karmanos, we call it the flushing toilet. It's not abstract, it's clear what it is, it just looks like crap.

 

2 minutes ago, QCS said:

but I think if they were to figure out a way to properly "box" the two flags (maybe with the outline of NC & SC behind it for balance)

What following do the Hurricanes have beyond the comfortable Raleigh suburbs and scattered online contrarians? Hurricanes fans get all itchy when people call North Carolina NASCAR country and suggest that that's a Charlotte thing; what need is there for an actual backwater like South Carolina?

[ManillaToad]

15 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

I like the black jersey crest from this @Morgan33 design:

 

 

The CH-warning flag is a good way to tribute the Whalers’ crest.

Love that CH logo. The double flag looks like it fell over and is wilting like a flower

[Chromatic]

13 minutes ago, Ridleylash said:

Honestly, the current primary isn't much better at not looking like a shoulder logo, in my opinion. Besides, Pittsburgh has a gigantic jersey logo that takes up like half of the torso and nobody seems to mind it, so I find it hard to believe the double flag would somehow be egregiously large;

 

I'd say the current primary is worse about it, honestly; it's a pair of jagged shapes with a swoosh and a couple of overlapping ovals in the center. The flag is at least a distinct object related to hurricanes, the current logo is almost too abstract for its own good.

I'm not saying the current primary is a good logo, but its better than the flags. I understand what they're going for with their primary, its a take on the Hurricane symbol. It is executed poorly, but I'd say it does have a lot of potential in the concept.

[Ridleylash]

18 minutes ago, the admiral said:

It's not abstract, it's clear what it is, it just looks like crap.

Yeah, this is the core of the issue; I can say it's abstract, but it's also just not good. I think if they started with the flag logo as the primary, it might have solved that issue. The current primary just feels like a secondary logo, something to compliment a more direct primary. It's not really distinctive in any way. HbD put it fairly well;

Quote

Maybe it’s not so much boring as it’s just not incredibly distinctive in any regards. The extra spikes to the outer ring of the logo gives it a tribal tattoo art look. That was big in 1997 when the Hurricanes moved from Hartford (who had, by the way, one of the best logos in hockey ever), but now that everybody and their dog has one (and if you ever tattoo your dog, you are insanely cruel), they’ve kind of lost their effect. Like everything in logo design, if you try to be too cool and trendy, it will become dated very fast.

 

20 minutes ago, QCS said:

I think if they were to figure out a way to properly "box" the two flags (maybe with the outline of NC & SC behind it for balance), it could be a really strong primary logo.

See, the problem with that idea is that the logo already has the outline of North Carolina in it with the negative space between the flags. Enclosing it with outlines of the Carolinas or something similar turns the logo into a 90's Whalers, where the use of negative space is damaged by pointless addons, and also leaves us with two NC outlines on the same logo.

 

And since the team is named the Hurricanes, using a tropical storm flag doesn't exactly work from a name matching standpoint. It'd kinda be like if the Maple Leafs used an oak leaf for a logo; like, it's a leaf, sure...but it ain't the right kind of leaf.

[The_Admiral]

Just now, Ridleylash said:

Yeah, this is the core of the issue; I can say it's abstract, but it's also just not good. I think if they started with the flag as the primary, it might have solved that issue. It just feels like a secondary logo, something to compliment a more direct primary.

 

That's how I feel about the Jets' primary. It's a perfect shoulder logo, as the Moose demonstrate. Up front, something's missing.

 

I think it's hard for people to have an impartial analysis of the Hurricanes' identity. In replacing one of the best and most beloved sports logos ever and an organization that was kind of emblematic of Old NHL idiosyncrasy, people are going to have an emotional reaction and hate everything about it. (I include myself here.) Conversely, you're going to have people who hate people like me and snarkily declare it Actually Good to stick it to those lame traditionalists who still yearn for their goony northeastern bus league. So I will try to step outside myself and ask:

 

 

 

What the hell's going on with the white space above the red circle and why does the edge overlap the black like that? Who booked this crap?

[sky1324]

1 hour ago, the admiral said:

 

What following do the Hurricanes have beyond the comfortable Raleigh suburbs and scattered online contrarians? Hurricanes fans get all itchy when people call North Carolina NASCAR country and suggest that that's a Charlotte thing; what need is there for an actual backwater like South Carolina?

They've got a decent following in Charlotte, but that's their own fault for going to a college town and not a real major league city. They fully commit to South Carolina, Bojangles Coliseum in Charlotte has "Carolina Hockey" all over the place with both North and South. 

 

57 minutes ago, Ridleylash said:

See, the problem with that idea is that the logo already has the outline of North Carolina in it with the negative space between the flags. Enclosing it with outlines of the Carolinas or something similar turns the logo into a 90's Whalers, where the use of negative space is damaged by pointless addons, and also leaves us with two NC outlines on the same logo.

Yeah, so remove the outline of NC from the logo. The idea would be that the new logo would be tighter and fit into a box, hence the Carolinas outline for balance. 

[chcarlson23]

3 minutes ago, QCS said:

They've got a decent following in Charlotte, but that's their own fault for going to a college town and not a real major league city. They fully commit to South Carolina, Bojangles Coliseum in Charlotte has "Carolina Hockey" all over the place with both North and South. 

And Charleston has the ECHL’s South Carolina Stingrays... Otherwise hockey doesn’t have a huge vibe in South Carolina. I’ve been to Myrtle Beach the past couple of summers, and there are more Bruins, Capitals, and even Sabres fans there than there are Hurricanes fans...

[sky1324]

4 minutes ago, chcarlson23 said:

And Charleston has the ECHL’s South Carolina Stingrays... Otherwise hockey doesn’t have a huge vibe in South Carolina. I’ve been to Myrtle Beach the past couple of summers, and there are more Bruins, Capitals, and even Sabres fans there than there are Hurricanes fans...

And I don't blame them, the Hurricanes have done an awful job at actually expanding the game. You want a Carolina team? Out it in the city that's actually close to the other Carolina.

[Ridleylash]

15 minutes ago, QCS said:

You want a Carolina team? Out it in the city that's actually close to the other Carolina.

Karmanos would've been stuck competing with the Panthers and the Hornets at that time if he had put the Canes in Charlotte, though; Raleigh, on the other hand, was free for his NHL team to be the major sports franchise of the city.

 

For Karmanos, Raleigh was clearly the more attractive option because of that. And considering the team's been in Raleigh ever since with not even an attempt to lure the team to Charlotte, I'm not inclined to agree that choosing Raleigh over Charlotte was a mistake. They're not that far apart in terms of TV market, and the Triangle has been growing at an exceptionally fast rate.

 

Choosing Raleigh doesn't seem to have hurt the Hurricanes in any significant manner; hell, it's right behind Charlotte in terms of size in the state and it's growing faster.

[sky1324]

29 minutes ago, Ridleylash said:

Karmanos would've been stuck competing with the Panthers and the Hornets at that time if he had put the Canes in Charlotte, though; Raleigh, on the other hand, was free for his NHL team to be the major sports franchise of the city.

 

For Karmanos, Raleigh was clearly the more attractive option because of that. And considering the team's been in Raleigh ever since with not even an attempt to lure the team to Charlotte, I'm not inclined to agree that choosing Raleigh over Charlotte was a mistake. They're not that far apart in terms of TV market, and the Triangle has been growing at an exceptionally fast rate.

 

Choosing Raleigh doesn't seem to have hurt the Hurricanes in any significant manner; hell, it's right behind Charlotte in terms of size in the state and it's growing faster.

Charlotte's got about a million more people in terms of MSA, about 100,000 more TV households, and history of supporting major league teams, including the Hornets, which had been selling out every game straight for about 6 or 7 seasons when the Whalers moved. I'll absolutely concede that the competition factor makes Raleigh attractive, but at the same time by every metric Charlotte was (and still is) larger and the Hurricanes have to share their arena with NC State, which has to hurt the bottom line. It's not like Charlotte Coliseum couldn't have been a temporary home for them, either, it had a configuration for ice hockey. Of course, Spectrum Center really doesn't, which would be the main reason there hasn't been a serious attempt to get the Canes to Charlotte. 

 

The ultimate problem with Raleigh is that the Triangle is built on colleges, which don't have a permanent population. The city is growing, but so is Charlotte, both at comparable rates. In the long run, I'm fairly confident that placing the team in Charlotte would've been better for both the bottom line and "growing the game". 

[Morgan33]

5 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

I like the black jersey crest from this @Morgan33 design:

 

The CH-warning flag is a good way to tribute the Whalers’ crest.

 

Thought it was okay until someone pointed out the similarities to the Habs logo.  Thanks though

 

6 hours ago, ManillaToad said:

Carolina's aways are so good looking that it doesn't even matter they shortened their name

 

I disagree.  The striping is so plain and looks more like the Red Wings than anything they've used before.  I also don't see the point of sublimating the most distinctive element of a sweater you lifted the Stanley Cup in.

[The_Admiral]

I think the story was that Raleigh coveted a hockey team so that they had a pretense to build a major-league arena for NC State, hence some sweetheart deal to move down after Auburn Hills and Columbus were ruled out. I don't think it was ever about Raleigh versus Charlotte, it was more like "where can I go now that Mike Ilitch slapped my dick."

[throwuascenario]

5 hours ago, QCS said:

Charlotte's got about a million more people in terms of MSA, about 100,000 more TV households, and history of supporting major league teams, including the Hornets, which had been selling out every game straight for about 6 or 7 seasons when the Whalers moved. I'll absolutely concede that the competition factor makes Raleigh attractive, but at the same time by every metric Charlotte was (and still is) larger and the Hurricanes have to share their arena with NC State, which has to hurt the bottom line. It's not like Charlotte Coliseum couldn't have been a temporary home for them, either, it had a configuration for ice hockey. Of course, Spectrum Center really doesn't, which would be the main reason there hasn't been a serious attempt to get the Canes to Charlotte. 

 

The ultimate problem with Raleigh is that the Triangle is built on colleges, which don't have a permanent population. The city is growing, but so is Charlotte, both at comparable rates. In the long run, I'm fairly confident that placing the team in Charlotte would've been better for both the bottom line and "growing the game". 

 

I don't think the mistake was putting the team in Raleigh. I think the mistake was branding with the NC State colors. I'm from Raleigh and the Hurricanes are a lot of times almost seen there as an NC State team. This limits them from reaching the entire area (UNC and Duke fans) as they should. Not to say that no UNC and Duke fans are Canes fans, but it certainly seems like Canes / NC State fandom goes hand in hand.

 

As for the Charlotte thing - I think that Raleigh's 70 year history of supporting three college basketball teams with pro level support far outweighs the six seasons of Hornets support that Charlotte had at the time. Having been to playoff games of all three, you can't even compare the atmosphere at a Canes playoff game to that of the Panthers/Hornets. Nothing against the Hornets / Panthers, but they are still, to this day, building a Charlotte fanbase. There were already three such fanbases ready made in Raleigh.

 

Even if it may have made some sense when they first moved, it would be insane for the Hurricanes to move to Charlotte now. They would effectively have to start over and build a new fanbase from scratch. Why would they do that when they already draw well (when they're relevant) now? The Hornets don't draw well and they're a far bigger deal than the Canes would ever be in Charlotte.

 

As far as growing the game, I think perhaps the game would've grown over a larger area. But it probably has grown more in Raleigh since the Canes have been here than it would have ever in Charlotte, with two other competing professional sports. And I don't think a small amount of growth in South Carolina would have made up for that difference.

 

Also, in 2020, the triangle is not built on colleges. There are 1.2 million people in the metro area. What are there - 100,000 people, max - that go to UNC, Duke, or State? I think sports make the universities seem more important to the area than they are.

[The_Admiral]

26 minutes ago, throwuascenario said:

it certainly seems like Canes / NC State fandom goes hand in hand.

 

The real predictor of Canes fandom seems to be whether your parents moved to a subdivision on a golf course down from Buffalo, Pittsburgh, or the tri-state area.

[VancouverFan69]

18 hours ago, Bayne said:

 

lol I don't think there was going to be any confusion there.

 

Btw none of those are wordmarks, they're just logos.

 

I agree. However, they could still be interpreted as word marks, though.

[hockey week]

7 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

I like the black jersey crest from this @Morgan33 design:

 

 

The CH-warning flag is a good way to tribute the Whalers’ crest.

 

the CH logo is such an obvious answer, but the problem is that there's already a CH logo in the league:

 

The C part of the flag logo is genius, but Carolina just had a ton of issues with "one flag isn't hurricane flags", so...

[dont care]

3 hours ago, VancouverFan69 said:

 

I agree. However, they could still be interpreted as word marks, though.

No, they are clearly logos just with working on them. The wordmark is only a part of a larger logo

[spartacat_12]

On 8/22/2020 at 11:22 PM, monkeypower said:

I loved, and I guess still love, those Colorado jerseys.

 

And looking at that Forsberg pic and the All-Star pic on the previous page, holy did jerseys used to be baggy. The shrinking of the jerseys with the switch to EDGE was a great move.

 

The best part of those Avs alternates was that it's the only time that the black helmets & pants haven't looked tacked on or out of place.