Los Angeles NFL Brands Discussion

[LMU]

59 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

That comparison is not valid, on account of the tremendous gulf in the perception of distances in the West versus in the East.   Westerners regard 100 miles the way Easterners would regard a distance of something like 40 miles.  So the applicable comparison to the Chargers moving to L.A. would not be the Eagles moving to the Meadowlands, but the Eagles moving to Trenton.

Bingo. Out here we think nothing of driving 300 miles each way for a weekend trip.  Hell, I drove down and back to SD back in June the same day for a work thing. It's no big deal here especially on a weekend.

[AAO]

A different direction from me...

 

https://www.behance.net/gallery/47660267/SD2LA-The-Los-Angeles-Breakers

 

[kroywen]

1 hour ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

That comparison is not valid, on account of the tremendous gulf in the perception of distances in the West versus in the East.   Westerners regard 100 miles the way Easterners would regard a distance of something like 40 miles.  So the applicable comparison to the Chargers moving to L.A. would not be the Eagles moving to the Meadowlands, but the Eagles moving to Trenton.

While I'd agree that perception of distance is very different out West than it is here in the East, I'd contend that the Philadelphia-to-New York comparison is still more apt than a Philadelphia-to-Trenton comparison. Regardless of distance, San Diego and Los Angeles are two separate metropolitan areas with two separate identities. San Diegans don't identify with LA any more than Philadelphians identify with New York or Washington, I'd guess. And much like NYC and Philly, there is a bit of a longstanding inter-city/inter-region rivalry between San Diego and Los Angeles. Folks from SD are not (and should not) take well to having LA take their football team away from them.

 

They're separate and distinct cities, with separate and distinct identities. I think we're already seeing that most San Diego fans are no longer seeing the Chargers as their local team (and certainly not as their hometown team). The Chargers effectively burned their bridges with San Diego by choosing to leave. There is no "we're only a short distance away still!" - the emotional connection between city and team is rightfully gone. And unfortunately for Spanos, that connection doesn't exist in his new home of LA either.

[Lights Out]

1 hour ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

That comparison is not valid, on account of the tremendous gulf in the perception of distances in the West versus in the East.   Westerners regard 100 miles the way Easterners would regard a distance of something like 40 miles.  So the applicable comparison to the Chargers moving to L.A. would not be the Eagles moving to the Meadowlands, but the Eagles moving to Trenton.

 

Again, you're missing the point. There isn't a single Chargers fan who cares about how many miles away the team is right now or how long the travel time would be. It's disingenuous to pretend that this is a factor.

 

Chargers fans have sworn off the team for a number of reasons: the stadium-related dog-and-pony show put on by a family that never had any actual interest in staying in San Diego, the team being moved to a rival city, and the team being moved to a city that doesn't even want them due to pure greed. Splitting hairs about how far up the road they're moving is beyond irrelevant to the emotions of the actual spurned fans of the team.

 

Quote

I can see the point there.

 

Still, imagine if the team did bring back powder blue.  You'd turn on the TV and see them looking like they ought to look.  You'd turn on the radio and hear the same announcers calling the games on the same station.  You'd look at your local newspaper and find the team covered by the same beat reporters.   You might have to conclude that the team is not nearly as "gone" as it had seemed when the move was announced.

 

 

Here's the catch, though. They can change the jerseys, but what they can't change is the two words in front of their name that are noxious to any San Diego Chargers fan: "Los Angeles."

 

I get that we like to place a lot of importance on the aesthetics of sports on this board, and for good reason. But I think sometimes we get so caught up in the visual brand of a team that we lose sight of the bigger picture, and this is one of those cases.

 

The Chargers were a San Diego staple for 55 years. San Diegans spent decades cheering for one of the most inept franchises in sports, hoping that something magical would happen and the Chargers would become winners. They were rewarded for it once, in the pre-merger era and the franchise's third season of existence. Since then, it's been nothing but one disaster after another, and between the Chargers and Padres, San Diego has been mired in a longer championship drought than the one Cleveland had.

 

Now, any success that the Chargers have won't be the same. It'll just be more success for a city that's been spoiled by it for decades. If they ever somehow win a Super Bowl (not likely anytime soon under Spanos ownership), it won't count as the long-awaited title for San Diego. The parade will be down Figueroa, not through the streets of downtown SD. And the success will primarily benefit the family of greedy :censored:bags that betrayed San Diego. It's naive to think that something as minor in the grand scheme of things as the color that the team wears on their jerseys is important enough to cancel out all of that baggage. If anything, it will only make things worse after decades of pleas to bring back the powder blues full-time fell on deaf ears.

 

For the record, the radio team won't be the same. Former Chargers player Nick Hardwick was the color guy this year and he refused the offer to follow the team to LA. As for the beat writers, I'm not sure what the Union-Tribune is going to do now that the Chargers have moved.
 

Quote

Given this, I do not think that it is unrealistic at all to suppose that there will be San Diego Charger fans whose attachment to the team will endure, despite their heartbreak at the move and despite their hatred for the ownership.

 

Take it from someone who actually was a Chargers fan until a week ago. The San Diego fans who are sticking with the Chargers even despite the relocation do exist, but they are a tiny minority, and even most of them are only willing to be casual fans at best anymore. The vast majority of Chargers fans - including many out-of-town fans like me - are officially done with this team. And it will take something drastic like an ownership change and maybe even a return to San Diego to win us back. Deano knows it, too, which is why he's done the bare minimum of damage control with his old fanbase and is reluctant to even acknowledge that we exist anymore.

[Sec19Row53]

24 minutes ago, Lights Out said:

 

I get that we like to place a lot of importance on the aesthetics of sports on this board, and for good reason. But I think sometimes we get so caught up in the visual brand of a team that we lose sight of the bigger picture.

 

 

A thousand times this.

[bosrs1]

3 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

 

That comparison is not valid, on account of the tremendous gulf in the perception of distances in the West versus in the East.   Westerners regard 100 miles the way Easterners would regard a distance of something like 40 miles.  So the applicable comparison to the Chargers moving to L.A. would not be the Eagles moving to the Meadowlands, but the Eagles moving to Trenton.

 

 

I think you overstate the "perception" of distances on the west coast. 120 miles (the distance between San Diego and LA) is still 120 miles. Most days of the year it'll seem like more than that due to the hellacious traffic in Los Angeles (which to get to the Chargers new stadium from San Diego includes having to drive the 405, the worst freeway in America for traffic). Even on a good day, the times to drive between SD and Carson are equivalent to the times between Philly and the Meadowlands, so while your perception may be that the perception in the west is different, reality is that you're wrong. And this is coming from a life long Californian who has driven the length and breadth of this state on all the major arteries more times than I can remember.

 

But that's not even the relevant aspect of the Eagles to NY comparison. It's that few if any Philadelphia Eagles fan would follow their team to New York if they became the New York Eagles. Just as few if any San Diego Chargers fans will be following them to a different market up in Los Angeles.

[bosrs1]

3 hours ago, The Giant Pacific Octopus said:

While I'm glad they ditched that love child of the LA Dodgers and Tampa Bay Lightning logo, I was hoping they would get a new logo in LA. Every time I see that lightning bolt logo I'm going to think of San Diego. And I don't want to think of San Diego unless I'm forced to.

 

That's why I was hoping they'd rebrand. The Chargers brand is to San Diego what the Browns brand was the Cleveland. They're synonymous.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Does the LA TV market incorporate San Diego? Will the Chargers be the default AFC team on Sundays in San Diego?

 

If so, I bet fandom lasts there for a while longer.

[LMU]

10 minutes ago, DG_Now said:

Does the LA TV market incorporate San Diego? Will the Chargers be the default AFC team on Sundays in San Diego?

 

If so, I bet fandom lasts there for a while longer.

No but they'll probably claim SD as a secondary market like they did with LA for years.

[BBTV]

3 hours ago, LMU said:

Bingo. Out here we think nothing of driving 300 miles each way for a weekend trip.  Hell, I drove down and back to SD back in June the same day for a work thing. It's no big deal here especially on a weekend.

 

I visited a friend in SD a couple of summers ago and we drove up to see a Dodgers game then drove right back.  To him, it was NBD.

[hawk36]

42 minutes ago, DG_Now said:

Does the LA TV market incorporate San Diego? Will the Chargers be the default AFC team on Sundays in San Diego?

 

If so, I bet fandom lasts there for a while longer.

My Dad, who still lives in San Diego, told me yesterday that he heard that Chargers games will be the ones shown in the area. He, and I'm sure many others, are very upset by this. As he said, it was bad enough when they had to watch THEIR Chargers but now they'll be forced to watch LA's Chargers. 

[IceCap]

3 hours ago, Lights Out said:

Chargers fans have sworn off the team for a number of reasons: the stadium-related dog-and-pony show put on by a family that never had any actual interest in staying in San Diego, the team being moved to a rival city, and the team being moved to a city that doesn't even want them due to pure greed. Splitting hairs about how far up the road they're moving is beyond irrelevant to the emotions of the actual spurned fans of the team.

Speak for yourself.

 

1 hour ago, bosrs1 said:

I think you overstate the "perception" of distances on the west coast.

A resident of LA, and a visitor to LA who met with a local friend, both backed up Ferdinand on the distance thing. So you know...like I said with Lights Out above. Your mileage may very (pun not intended, but relished).

[hawk36]

20 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

 

I visited a friend in SD a couple of summers ago and we drove up to see a Dodgers game then drove right back.  To him, it was NBD.

I'd say the Rams will benefit more than the Chargers from San Diegans. I remember when the Clippers left (obviously far less history) many drove up the coast to watch the Lakers if only to spite the Clippers. Unless the Rams completely stink, I feel more San Diego Charger fans drive to support the Rams than will support the Chargers. 

[Lights Out]

12 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

Speak for yourself.

There's a reason I didn't say "all Chargers fans." I know there's a few who are sticking around, but I was only referring to all the former fans who are now done with them.

[BBTV]

I have no idea where Lights Out is from, but I think that people like him that are fans of seemingly random teams located all over the place are the minority.  For a team like the Chargers, the now-former local fanbase is by far the most important for them to keep, and the one who's opinions carry the most weight.  That's not to dismiss the valid opinion of a Chargers fan living in Des Moines (and for all I know, LO does live in the SD area) but they don't care (and likely never have cared) cared what you think.

[Jstn1586]

i dont mind them keeping things simple for now but i would like for them to kinda change up their look. i made one just for fun

[rsaline]

Broncos called and they want their awkward-smile horse back.

[bosrs1]

2 hours ago, DG_Now said:

Does the LA TV market incorporate San Diego? Will the Chargers be the default AFC team on Sundays in San Diego?

 

If so, I bet fandom lasts there for a while longer.

 

Nope. Different TV markets. Though the local CBS affiliate in San Diego has said they'll start the season by playing Chargers games. But if the ratings aren't there, or the team starts to tank as they inevitably will, they'll starting bringing in alternative games from the national line up.

[bosrs1]

2 hours ago, Ice_Cap said:

Speak for yourself.

 

A resident of LA, and a visitor to LA who met with a local friend, both backed up Ferdinand on the distance thing. So you know...like I said with Lights Out above. Your mileage may very (pun not intended, but relished).

 

Same on the east coast. I know people who drive from east Hartford to NYC and back in a day and don't think anything of it. Same from the Philly area to NYC.

 

It's not the distances, the perception of driving times or any of that BS, it's the markets. San Diego is not Los Angeles. Never has been, never will be. People in general in SD do not associate themselves with LA and vice versa. Just as Philadelphia doesn't with New York or Baltimore.

 

And I think hawk36 may end up being right. Of the two LA basketball teams the only one that has any limited relevance in San Diego is the Lakers. The Clippers are a non-entity here. The same will happen to the Chargers long term. What will be really telling will be in a couple of years when Gates, Rivers and the rest of the long time Chargers are gone. I've talked to a few online who are only going to follow the team to watch those guys end their careers then they're out too like the majority of San Diego based fans.

[bosrs1]

20 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

 

Are they really marketing to TJ though?  Are Tijunanans going to scale the wall (that they're totally going to pay us back for) to go to games?  Are they tuning into CBS to watch the Chargers every Sunday?  Is CBS even broadcast there?  Are they buying licensed merch?  I don't know, but I'd suspect that despite the proximity to SD, they're not really part of the same market - at least for american football purposes.  

 

Disclosure - I spent around 4 hours in TJ, so I'm pretty much an expert in TJ/SD relations.

 

Oh they're buying merch and the like. And I'm not sure about the former San Diego Chargers, but the Padres do some marketing in TJ, and they of course have Spanish and English broadcasts that are picked up in TJ radio. TV I'm not as sure about.