22-23 NBA Season Thread

[Digby]

22 hours ago, Digby said:

 

Well, at least there aren't very many Brooklyn fans to be left disheartened by the recent events. The last time they were picking up the wreckage of a disastrous star team, they were rebuilding with Dinwiddie and LeVert and Allen, plus a decent coach in Kenny Atkinson, and they were a fun young team with strong culture and a path toward being decently competitive. Rather than augment that, they shredded it to pieces.

 

Funny that Dinwiddie is back in the fold now to see if things go better this time around, and I think they might -- they traded Kyrie's finishing ability to level up their defense (and get assets for possibly another trade). But I can also see them handing over the keys to, like, Trae Young in three years or something if Durant bails and leaves them crud.

 

Self-quoting here but I should mention that I think Durant is now more likely to stay in Brooklyn... that the Nets picked a trade package that got them two starter-quality players in return suggests they're not entering a total teardown period. Probably better on defense now, though not totally enough to zero out the loss of Kyrie's offensive ability. Still, seems like they're interested in trying to continue to be competitive and find complementary pieces around KD -- not that I'd say that makes them a contender exactly, but they'll be the only middle-of-the-pack Eastern team that has Kevin Durant as an x-factor, so it's probably worth a shot (and still sells more tickets than another years-long rebuild).

[gosioux76]

3 hours ago, Digby said:

 

Self-quoting here but I should mention that I think Durant is now more likely to stay in Brooklyn... that the Nets picked a trade package that got them two starter-quality players in return suggests they're not entering a total teardown period. Probably better on defense now, though not totally enough to zero out the loss of Kyrie's offensive ability. Still, seems like they're interested in trying to continue to be competitive and find complementary pieces around KD -- not that I'd say that makes them a contender exactly, but they'll be the only middle-of-the-pack Eastern team that has Kevin Durant as an x-factor, so it's probably worth a shot (and still sells more tickets than another years-long rebuild).

 

I don't know. It seems KD over the past 10 years or so has sought to plant himself in situations where he isn't the sole focal point. He loses Harden and Westbrook in OKC, so he jumps to a Warriors team with Steph and Klay. He jumps from there to Brooklyn, where he pairs with Kyrie and, for a stretch, Harden again. In this circumstance,  the assumption is he'd be OK surrounding himself with complementary role players rather than other superstars who'd take some of the burden off his back. 

 

Maybe it's unfair, but it seems as of the biggest knock on the guy is that he hasn't shown a strong desire to lead.  

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Remember when people said KD was better than LeBron? That turned out to be nonsense.

[dont care]

So kyrie is already starting his tenure in Dallas off on the right foot by deleting his apology for being an antisemitic piece of garbage tweet and Instagram post. He really just can’t help himself

[BBTV]

Don't know who this, but local scribes have linked the Sixers to Noel (intentionally or not, arguably the first player drafted as part of "the process")

 

 

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Lakers shouldn't trade their picks for that haul. Gross.

[Gary]

3 minutes ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

Lakers shouldn't trade their picks for that haul. Gross.

Imo that’s just an awful trade all around and the only team winning are the Sixers

[TrueYankee26]

Congrats to LeBron!  

 

 

[FiddySicks]

It feels kinda jarring for them to just stop the game with 10 seconds left in the third to do this whole ceremony. I think they did this with the home run records, though. 
 

Good for Lebron! Probably the best to ever do it. 

[Cujo]

2 minutes ago, FiddySicks said:

Probably the best to ever do it

 

**Second-best.

 

[FiddySicks]

Yeah there’s always gonna be that debate, and that’s fine. I personally don’t think it really matters all that much. I really kinda hate how the whole debate has clouded people from just sitting back and enjoying the whole Lebron era. 
 

All I know is this. I got to see the final three Jordan titles and that was really awesome. I’ve also followed Lebron’s entire career, and that’s also been awesome. Pair that with guys like Steph and KD, I’m just happy basketball as a whole has been this compelling for so long. Like, Jordan vs Lebron for best ever. What a good problem to have, right? 

[habsfan1]

 

[Germanshepherd]

I never thought I’d see this record fall, and now 40,000 points seems likely. Just unprecedented amounts of longevity. 

[DG_ThenNowForever]

4 minutes ago, FiddySicks said:

Yeah there’s always gonna be that debate, and that’s fine. I personally don’t think it really matters all that much. I really kinda hate how the whole debate has clouded people from just sitting back and enjoying the whole Lebron era. 
 

All I know is this. I got to see the final three Jordan titles and that was really awesome. I’ve also followed Lebron’s entire career, and that’s also been awesome. Pair that with guys like Steph and KD, I’m just happy basketball as a whole has been this compelling for so long. Like, Jordan vs Lebron for best ever. What a good problem to have, right? 

 

There are a lot of people -- myself once included -- who were determined to discredit LeBron as not being worthy to Jordan ever since he joined the Cavs. There are people who will never be moved, but I was. LeBron has done more with less, will end up with basically ever individual record, and, until he entered his late 30s, was a guaranteed contender. All that, and basically a completely clean record and no off-court controversy.  Best to do it.

[Cujo]

As far as the MJ vs LBJ debate goes:

 

If you were alive for Jordan, you're going to say Jordan.

 

If you weren't alive for Jordan, you're going to say Lebron -- because you never watched Jordan.

[Germanshepherd]

 

[FiddySicks]

40 minutes ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

 

There are a lot of people -- myself once included -- who were determined to discredit LeBron as not being worthy to Jordan ever since he joined the Cavs. There are people who will never be moved, but I was. LeBron has done more with less, will end up with basically ever individual record, and, until he entered his late 30s, was a guaranteed contender. All that, and basically a completely clean record and no off-court controversy.  Best to do it.

This is the thing that’s so baffling to me about a lot of the Lebron hate. The dude is just about the best example of a person as you could possibly expect to be the face of the league and a role model to a ton of young kids (even if you argue that athletes shouldn’t be role models, you can still at least understand the point in this). And yet people nitpick stuff like, oh, he comes across as too arrogant or oh he’s too much of a drama Queen. Like, ok. Sure. Even if that’s true (I don’t really think it is), what do you really expect? How perfect does someone have to be to validate their achievements? That’s the real arrogance if you ask me. That stuff all comes across as so annoyingly entitled from fans.  Like, people have so little left to hold against Lebron that they’re even roasting him on his stance on stuff like China and Kyrie’s antisemitism. Basically stuff that none of us would ever care about with any other athlete. Some of that comes with the territory, no doubt about it. It’s the cost of being in that position. But this dude has been held under a microscope forever and has mostly come out clean sans a few relatively minor issues (at least for an athlete and in the context of sports). Jordan had the luxury of playing in an era when there wasn’t that constant surveillance, and Jordan was famously a douche. But because of the “mystery” or whatever, it’s celebrated rather than torn apart like it is today. It just builds his legend. I think in that sense, how can you not see Lebron as at least on the same level as Jordan? 
 

That’s just my feeling, though. You’re right that some people are never gonna be swayed on this issue in either direction. 

[Sport]

9 hours ago, FiddySicks said:

This is the thing that’s so baffling to me about a lot of the Lebron hate. The dude is just about the best example of a person as you could possibly expect to be the face of the league and a role model to a ton of young kids (even if you argue that athletes shouldn’t be role models, you can still at least understand the point in this). And yet people nitpick stuff like, oh, he comes across as too arrogant or oh he’s too much of a drama Queen. Like, ok. Sure. Even if that’s true (I don’t really think it is), what do you really expect? How perfect does someone have to be to validate their achievements? That’s the real arrogance if you ask me. That stuff all comes across as so annoyingly entitled from fans.  Like, people have so little left to hold against Lebron that they’re even roasting him on his stance on stuff like China and Kyrie’s antisemitism. Basically stuff that none of us would ever care about with any other athlete. Some of that comes with the territory, no doubt about it. It’s the cost of being in that position. But this dude has been held under a microscope forever and has mostly come out clean sans a few relatively minor issues (at least for an athlete and in the context of sports). Jordan had the luxury of playing in an era when there wasn’t that constant surveillance, and Jordan was famously a douche. But because of the “mystery” or whatever, it’s celebrated rather than torn apart like it is today. It just builds his legend. I think in that sense, how can you not see Lebron as at least on the same level as Jordan? 
 

That’s just my feeling, though. You’re right that some people are never gonna be swayed on this issue in either direction. 

 

I agree with you entirely. We know too much about athletes today and it feels like if a player doesn't bat 1000 on every stance, behavior, and social issue then people declare them World's Biggest Hitler. I don't even bat 1000 on every stance, behavior, or social issue. As long as a guy's heart is in the right place, isn't saying or being hateful against an entire religion or race, and hasn't committed violent crimes then I think you can chalk up their off-field stuff to being largely immaterial to their play and our analysis of them as athletes. We're going to do this again when Ovechkin breaks Gretzky's record - He's been vocally supportive of Putin, but you have to weigh that with how much the most famous Russian athlete has to do or say to protect his family and friends back home. Everything is not 100% exactly as it appears.

 

My dad's side of the family is from Akron and a long time family friend was Lebron's math teacher in high school so I followed his career probably earlier than most. It's remarkable that he exceeded his high school hype because it was pretty damn high. He was on the cover of SI when that mattered, ESPN was broadcasting his high school games, and Nike gave him like a billion dollars when he was like 17. That's a lot to live up to. Before he graduated and got drafted I remember his mom took out a loan to buy a new house and he bought a new Hummer and I remember thinking "uh oh. That's a bad sign." But what I remember the math teacher saying was that he was really smart and she wasn't worried about him getting sucked into all the pitfalls of fame and money. And he largely hasn't, which is again, pretty impressive. It all could've gone off the rails so much easier than not and instead he scored the most points anyone's ever scored. That's incredible. 

 

 

[oldschoolvikings]

But is it really hate or discrediting to simply say, as good as he is, he’s still second place to MJ?  Doesn’t feel like hate to me.  
 

Here’s how I always think of it…. If my life literally depended on the outcome of a single basketball game, and I mean literally, and I could choose any player in his prime as my one pick, I’d say Jordan before the question was finished. 
 

Watching MJ play you always felt he’d cut your throat in a second to win a game.  I never got that feeling from Lebron. 

[Gary]

I feel like it’s more of a generational conversation. Fans born in the 70s and 80s grew up with MJ and watching how amazing he was. I grew up in that generation and remember how electric he played. It just hit different. While LeBron is also an amazing player. He just didn’t have in my opinion what Jordan had. Like old school said he would’ve cut your throat to win a game. 
 

I do think that both are both are built from the same cloth and in 20 years he’s going to be a very rich man like Jordan and own a franchise. And honestly both are always going to be 1a and 1B in every conversation until the next generational player comes along and blows us away and has that 1c