The name of Chicago's 2nd NFL team

[VitaminD]

Let's assume (and it is a big IF) that the NFL sees a major shake up of franchises like it did in the 80's. I would expect to see this:

[truncated by Vit. D]

New Orleans Saints -----> Las Vegas Outlaws

Buffalo Bills -------------> Toronto Buffaloes

[truncated by Vit. D]

Jacksonville Jaguars ------> Chicago Hogs

Let's think about some of these proposals, shall we?

Putting 2 teams in LA when it has zero and didn't support the two that it had is ridiculous. The NFL is doing fine without LA, and NFL fans in Los Angeles get the best games every weekend on TV. No risk of blackouts, no having to watch a crappy local game. So if LA hasn't been screaming for one, and the NFL's been getting along OK without LA, why the urge to throw 2 teams in there? Especially with the idea they'd be sharing a stadium - that won't help drive up the value of either franchise, since the stadium revenue would be split.

Vegas is risky as well. Other than the casinos, what companies are buying the naming rights, the skyboxes, the season tickets? Vegas is a city of transplants and shift-workers employed by the casinos and hospitality industry - so who's got the time and money to follow this new team? Also, having a team in town would likely close down action on NFL games at sports books so as not to give the air of potential point-shaving. You think the casinos are willing to lose that much cash to bring the Saints to town?

A team in Toronto is a horrid idea for the US and for Canada. For one, it'd be the beginning of the end for the CFL. For two, Toronto is a wonderful cosmopolitan city - but how many football players know that, or care to find out through free agency? They see "Canada", they think passing through customs, extra hassles with income, exchange rates, culture that's not quite their own. Who's the last big-name NBA free agent that went to the Raptors by choice and stayed?

Two teams in Chicago? How much money would you have to pay the Bears to break up their control of the area? And just because you plunk a team in a city doesn't mean people will follow them. The Mets worked in MLB because at the time, AL and NL baseball never played each other save the All-Star Game and the World Series. Players didn't hop from team to team via free agency. Leagues had their own identity, and when the Dodgers and Giants moved west, NL baseball fans in New York had no one to root for. The Mets filled that void. Now in today's NFL, how many Chicagoland football fans are going to break ties with the team that generations of their families have rooted for to follow a team like the Jaguars, who didn't exist when I graduated high school and have zero Super Bowl appearances? What's the draw, the allure of this team that would make a Bears fan quit on their childhood team?

I'm all for a good idea. But think these through carefully - none of them make sense. Granted, Jacksonville doesn't need a team, New Orleans has fallen on hard times and Buffalo is losing its citizens to warmer climates. But that doesn't mean any of these solutions are a better idea. In fact, all they do is cause problems of their own.

[IceCap]

San Antonio has ZERO chance of getting an NFL team. Being in New Orleans, I've been watching the situation closely. The San Antonio fans were wonderful, turning up to watch a crappy Saints team. But I cant see the other greedy owners supporting a move to a small market where they cant stuff their pockets with maximum dollars. I dont believe the NFL is sincere about wanting the Saints to stay here and the knowledgable fan expects them to leave in two years, taking the jack*** owner with them. The destination will be unknown , but I dont believe San Antonio is in the running.Chicago would be behind L.A.

Lets compare shall we?

San Antonio: stadium

loyal fanbase

One of the ten largest cities in America

less immediate competition-sure there are two other Texas teams, but they aren't in market.

not a small market, more like a medium

Chicago: No stadium (and no chance of one, unless a bunch of legislators want to get voted out of office-BTW it's an election year in Illinois)

loyal fanbase (assuming you win)

One of the three largest cities in the country

immediate competition in proximety-the Bears, and once you leave Chicago, the Rams, Colts, and Packers have decent fan contingents in Illinois.

major market

I honestly can't see how Chicago would be ahead of San Antonio

Also, I second Icecap's sentiment. We can stop calling Benson names-he's facing a lack of support from fans and has had his market drastically reduced (and he was thinking about moving pre-Katrina). He's just being a smart businessman.

Rams 80 and Icecap,If you would actually experience what we've experienced with Benson through the last 10 years, jack*** is letting him off easy. Lack of fan support? What is this based on? The four games at a college stadium 80 miles away? There are dead bodies still being recovered in some neighborhoods, so football is still a little off the radar right now. Pass judgement after the 2006 season on the fan support angle. Back to Benson,He's had a sweetheart deal (all concession profits from the Superdome, yearly 15 million dollar payments from the state and the state (ie. taxpayer , ie ME) bought him a training facility. His out of pocket expenses as an owner are the lowest in the league. This is all fact based. Do your research. This team has been the most loyally supported without winning in the league. As far as San Antonio , the Alamodome is hardly an NFL stadium. How many corporate suites (any?) does it have? And according to the San Antonio papers, BUSINESSES bought up over half the tickets to the last two games. Do you think that would play out well financially for the whole season. It would be wise for a businessman to leave a situation that is not finacially feasible. However , the support he was given as an owner should give him the desire to allow the city that it can and will support. I respect your opinions , but this one hits close to home. Just my .02...

Calm done. I have nothing against NOLA. Truly, I'm very sorry with everything that has happened to your city. Still, lets all be realistic. The Superdome is, to put it nicely, not up to hosting NFL football (or any football for that matter).

As for a new stadium, I'm sure the city of NOLA has more important things to do (like rebuilding the city) to worry about building a new stadium. A new stadium probablly won't be built until 2009 at the earliest. It just isn't plausible for Benson to keep his team in NOLA. Let the man move his team. If the fan support in NOLA is as great as people say it is then the NFL will be back when the city is back on its feet. I hear the Jags are unhappy in JAX, maybe they'll look into moving to the Big Easy.

[winters in buffalo]

Ahh...tortured Bills fans.  I, like many, are worried that not only are we stuck with a losing team for the foreseable future, but we may very well lose our team too.  My biggest hope?  That when Wilson dies (any day now, huh?), the Wegmans or Galisano swoop in and buy the team.  They would definitely keep it in Western New York. 

Bummer about the empty buildings in Buffalo though.  There are indeed way too many and I, for one, don't like visiting.

Mabye Bob Rich also???

The same Bob Rich that couldn't afford the MLB expansion fee back when Buffalo was in the running to get one of the franchises that ended up in Denver & Miami?

He doesn't have nearly enough to buy the Bills.

Best bet is Jeremy Jacobs, but I wouldn't at all be surprised if a there was a community effort to sell shares in the team to numerous local investors.

[TheOldRoman]

Question for everybody:

Why exactly are the Jaguars rumored to be moving? Is their 11 year old stadium suddenly antiquated?

[Bernd]

Just to be accurate, San Antonio is indeed a top ten city in terms of city population, but it falls to #28 when talking about total metropolitan area.

[cubbies06]

San Antonio has ZERO chance of getting an NFL team. Being in New Orleans, I've been watching the situation closely. The San Antonio fans were wonderful, turning up to watch a crappy Saints team. But I cant see the other greedy owners supporting a move to a small market where they cant stuff their pockets with maximum dollars. I dont believe the NFL is sincere about wanting the Saints to stay here and the knowledgable fan expects them to leave in two years, taking the jack*** owner with them. The destination will be unknown , but I dont believe San Antonio is in the running.Chicago would be behind L.A.

Lets compare shall we?

San Antonio: stadium

loyal fanbase

One of the ten largest cities in America

less immediate competition-sure there are two other Texas teams, but they aren't in market.

not a small market, more like a medium

Chicago: No stadium (and no chance of one, unless a bunch of legislators want to get voted out of office-BTW it's an election year in Illinois)

loyal fanbase (assuming you win)

One of the three largest cities in the country

immediate competition in proximety-the Bears, and once you leave Chicago, the Rams, Colts, and Packers have decent fan contingents in Illinois.

major market

I honestly can't see how Chicago would be ahead of San Antonio

Also, I second Icecap's sentiment. We can stop calling Benson names-he's facing a lack of support from fans and has had his market drastically reduced (and he was thinking about moving pre-Katrina). He's just being a smart businessman.

Rams 80 and Icecap,If you would actually experience what we've experienced with Benson through the last 10 years, jack*** is letting him off easy. Lack of fan support? What is this based on? The four games at a college stadium 80 miles away? There are dead bodies still being recovered in some neighborhoods, so football is still a little off the radar right now. Pass judgement after the 2006 season on the fan support angle. Back to Benson,He's had a sweetheart deal (all concession profits from the Superdome, yearly 15 million dollar payments from the state and the state (ie. taxpayer , ie ME) bought him a training facility. His out of pocket expenses as an owner are the lowest in the league. This is all fact based. Do your research. This team has been the most loyally supported without winning in the league. As far as San Antonio , the Alamodome is hardly an NFL stadium. How many corporate suites (any?) does it have? And according to the San Antonio papers, BUSINESSES bought up over half the tickets to the last two games. Do you think that would play out well financially for the whole season. It would be wise for a businessman to leave a situation that is not finacially feasible. However , the support he was given as an owner should give him the desire to allow the city that it can and will support. I respect your opinions , but this one hits close to home. Just my .02...

Calm done. I have nothing against NOLA. Truly, I'm very sorry with everything that has happened to your city. Still, lets all be realistic. The Superdome is, to put it nicely, not up to hosting NFL football (or any football for that matter).

As for a new stadium, I'm sure the city of NOLA has more important things to do (like rebuilding the city) to worry about building a new stadium. A new stadium probablly won't be built until 2009 at the earliest. It just isn't plausible for Benson to keep his team in NOLA. Let the man move his team. If the fan support in NOLA is as great as people say it is then the NFL will be back when the city is back on its feet. I hear the Jags are unhappy in JAX, maybe they'll look into moving to the Big Easy.

Ice, I know this isnt a personal affront to city. And I even stated in my original post that they'll probably leave in two years. It's Benson that has me and every other Saints fan annoyed. Four days after the hurricane , he told his assembled staff in San Antonio "We're Texas's team now". What a scumbag to utter those words in the wake of what just happened. Several high ranking officials , his top assistant, his director of marketing,his ticket sales manager and several others resigned in the following weeks due to the perceived abandonment of New Orleans. That followed byhis idiotic e-mail sent to Taglibue that he felt his "life was in danger" after HE shoved a cameraman following a game at LSU has him at the bottom of the barrel as far as New Orleans is concerned. I just should have prefaced my comments about Benson with these charming little stories (that many outside of N.O. are unaware of. It's not because of the possibilty that he is leaving that has us p o'd. It's his moronic and insensitive behavior. On a happier note, How bout' them Jays,eh? They're a Molina away from making a wildcard run...

[The_Admiral]

Question for everybody:

Why exactly are the Jaguars rumored to be moving? Is their 11 year old stadium suddenly antiquated?

Their fan support is poor.

[DaytonBlue]

The Jaguars and Jacksonville just worked out a lease extension. They were disputing over some electronic signage revenue, but they worked it out.

NOLA: can't see it happening, bad PR move for NFL...I think the league really wants Benson to sell.

MN: I think theyll work something out...they love their Vikings

Buffalo: like someone said earlier, riots would result

Raiders: possibility, but ending the PSL thing in Oakland was a good move to start

Chargers: I would think LA, then at least SD fans would still be somewhat close to their team.

[Slammersman]

Birmingham Al. will get a NFL team before Chicago gets another, and Birmingham ain't getting one anytime soon.

[BRYWHIT]

San Antonio has ZERO chance of getting an NFL team. Being in New Orleans, I've been watching the situation closely. The San Antonio fans were wonderful, turning up to watch a crappy Saints team. But I cant see the other greedy owners supporting a move to a small market where they cant stuff their pockets with maximum dollars. I dont believe the NFL is sincere about wanting the Saints to stay here and the knowledgable fan expects them to leave in two years, taking the jack*** owner with them. The destination will be unknown , but I dont believe San Antonio is in the running.Chicago would be behind L.A.

SA is deffently ahaead of Chicago in the running. As far as profits go, a team in Chicago would split the fan support netween the new team and the Bears. A team in SA will get the entire city to itself. Also, can we stop callin Benson names? He's making a smart decision. It's a sad fact, but the city of NOLA will be unable to support a pro team until 2009, at the earliest.

As for LA, well the NFL wants a team there. The Chargers lease runs out in 07. The city council of SD is in no position to approve a new stadium. The Chargers have stated that LA is there secondary market, even holding training camp there. Football fans in LA want the the Chargers, and the Chargers want to be in LA. IMO it's a lock the Chargers will head to LA once their lease runs out in SD.

Best thing about the Chargers moving to LA? No divisonal re-alighnment (Same can be said with the Saints going to SA).

If the Bills were to move out of Buffalo, me and the rest of the Buffalo fans would throw such a big fit we'd make the Cleveland Browns relocation incident of the 90s look like a minor fracas between the fans and management.

Come on Man. Don't try to compare Bills fans to Browns fans. I've seen how empty your stadium has been in resent years. And don't get me started on those awesome crowds they had there in the early to mid 1980's. Bills fans only show up when their winning. So no, I don't think the outcry for the Bills if they were to move would be anywhere close to what the Browns got.

But will never find out because the Bills aren't going anywhere.

All 8 bills games were sell outs this year with a 5-11 record

And all were also last year also.

Don't pay him any attention. Acording to him, the Cleveland Browns are the only team in history of sports to have a loyal fanbase. Everyone else has fair-weather fans

SAN ANTONIO EATS CAT POOP.

[Blue Falcon]

Chicago already has a second team, the Bears. The city's first team was the Cardinals.

Chicago has a pro football team?

Those teams will never move to the Windy City.

[Joshawaggie]

if Chicago ever got another team, they might as well be called the "Junior Bears". They wouldnt get the same amount of support as the eldest team.

[doctorpeligro]

I think it may be in the league's best interest to have 2 teams in the country's #3 market instead of sticking a team in San Antonio, which has a metropolitan area that is less than 18% the size of the Chicago market. You can do the math yourself, using numbers from the last census:

San Antonio 1,592,383

Chicago 9,157,450

http://www.census.gov/population/cen2000/phc-t3/tab03.pdf

I have little doubt that an AFC team could thrive in Chicago, especially if it was placed in the same division as the Indianapolis Colts. By the way, there are 3 markets that currently have 2 NFL teams; two of them (Washington/Baltimore and the San Francisco Bay Area) are smaller than "Chicagoland."

[rams80]

I think it may be in the league's best interest to have 2 teams in the country's #3 market instead of sticking a team in San Antonio, which has a metropolitan area that is less than 18% the size of the Chicago market. You can do the math yourself, using numbers from the last census:

San Antonio 1,592,383

Chicago 9,157,450

http://www.census.gov/population/cen2000/phc-t3/tab03.pdf

I have little doubt that an AFC team could thrive in Chicago, especially if it was placed in the same division as the Indianapolis Colts. By the way, there are 3 markets that currently have 2 NFL teams; two of them (Washington/Baltimore and the San Francisco Bay Area) are smaller than "Chicagoland."

You seem to be missing a critical point on this whole debate that torpedoes this whole scheme.

Chicago does not have this stadium right now and Illinois does not have the money to fund this stadium, and to attempt to do so is essentially "political suicide".

That alone will end up killing this plan.

[Gothamite]

Question for everybody:

Why exactly are the Jaguars rumored to be moving?  Is their 11 year old stadium suddenly antiquated?

Their fan support is poor.

Poor? Try miserable. Even when they field a competitive team, they still can't draw flies.

Can they air their cames on television yet, or are they still blacked out?

[KevinMcD]

Ahh...tortured Bills fans.  I, like many, are worried that not only are we stuck with a losing team for the foreseable future, but we may very well lose our team too.  My biggest hope?  That when Wilson dies (any day now, huh?), the Wegmans or Galisano swoop in and buy the team.  They would definitely keep it in Western New York. 

Bummer about the empty buildings in Buffalo though.  There are indeed way too many and I, for one, don't like visiting.

Mabye Bob Rich also???

The same Bob Rich that couldn't afford the MLB expansion fee back when Buffalo was in the running to get one of the franchises that ended up in Denver & Miami?

He doesn't have nearly enough to buy the Bills.

Best bet is Jeremy Jacobs, but I wouldn't at all be surprised if a there was a community effort to sell shares in the team to numerous local investors.

I meant mabye in a group ownership w/Golisano, Wegmans, Jacobs or anyone

who will keep the team here in Buffalo

[KevinMcD]

Ahh...tortured Bills fans.  I, like many, are worried that not only are we stuck with a losing team for the foreseable future, but we may very well lose our team too.  My biggest hope?  That when Wilson dies (any day now, huh?), the Wegmans or Galisano swoop in and buy the team.  They would definitely keep it in Western New York. 

Bummer about the empty buildings in Buffalo though.  There are indeed way too many and I, for one, don't like visiting.

Mabye Bob Rich also???

The same Bob Rich that couldn't afford the MLB expansion fee back when Buffalo was in the running to get one of the franchises that ended up in Denver & Miami?

He doesn't have nearly enough to buy the Bills.

Best bet is Jeremy Jacobs, but I wouldn't at all be surprised if a there was a community effort to sell shares in the team to numerous local investors.

I know not many Buffalonians could afford to own the team I meant mabye in a group ownership w/Golisano, Wegmans, Jacobs or anyone

who will keep the team here in Buffalo

[doctorpeligro]

You seem to be missing a critical point on this whole debate that torpedoes this whole scheme.

Chicago does not have this stadium right now and Illinois does not have the money to fund this stadium, and to attempt to do so is essentially "political suicide".

That alone will end up killing this plan.

They wouldn't have too much difficulty financing a new stadium privately, provided they could find a piece of property that was already owned by the city, and provided that they avoid the alure an expensive retractable roof. If they can privately finance a stadium in :censored:in' Charlotte, they can certainly do it in Chicago. As I mentioned elsewhere, naming right alone would go for more than $10 million/year. If it was impossible to privately finance stadiums, why is it happening again, twice (New Jersey & Los Angeles)? Apparently someone has found a way to do it and still make a profit. You may want to check out this article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/20/nyregion/20stadium.html

[VitaminD]

I have little doubt that an AFC team could thrive in Chicago, especially if it was placed in the same division as the Indianapolis Colts. By the way, there are 3 markets that currently have 2 NFL teams; two of them (Washington/Baltimore and the San Francisco Bay Area) are smaller than "Chicagoland."

You're overlooking a key point.

Is there demand for a 2nd team, or are most Chicagoans loyal Bears fans? This 2nd team would never be more than 2nd class citizens in their own (adopted) hometown, and would pull very few fans from their neighbors. At least for some cities, the team would be the only game in town if the fans wanted live NFL action.

That Chicago had 2 teams in the past is relatively irrelevant. In its early days, the NFL was a more regional league at a time when the world was connected by railroads. In 2006, when anyone can watch any game and follow any team through cable TV and the internet, what is the rationale for putting a 2nd team within the same city as a team with an established history and fan base that's been passed down from one generation to the next?

Putting them in the AFC is no improvement on a poor solution; this isn't 1960 and this isn't baseball, where the NL and AL operated independently of each other. Your premise still puts 2 teams within the same city limits, which is in even greater proximity than Baltimore-Washington (35 miles) or the teams in the Bay Area (separated by a prominent body of water).

[Fjm]

Responding to your original post, if you meant that San Diego is in the greater Los Angeles area, I think the residents of San Diego consider themselves to be in L.A. as much as Philadelphians consider themselves to be in the greater NY area or Buffalo residents considers themselves to be in the greater Toronto area.