Vancouver Pacers?

[pcgd]

It's unbelievable and sad that the NBA is failing in Indianapolis. They gotta get over the Stephen Jackson thing already.

Not really. Indiana's love for basketball seems to have always had an inverse relationship to the age and skill of the players. High School-WOOHOO that is awesome, although not as awesome as when they had one tournament. College: We are loyal to our myriad universities, especially when they are good. But we aren't paying for garbage; if you suck, we won't be there. NBA: There's basketball after college? Why? Well, if they're good we can support them. Except they aren't good.

I've always suspected a racial component when I hear people talk about how they like college basketball but not pro.

Or it could be they are totally different styles of game. The Pro game is one on one match-ups. While the college game is much more pass and set-play friendly. NBA is a player league and College relies on coaching more. How can it be racial when the makeup of the players is pretty equal in college (Major schools) and pros?

Personally I prefer college because the game is fast paced throughout. In the NBA it seems only the 4th quarter matters and although there are good defenders, the league is largely offensive oriented. It has nothing to do with race. Its the same reason many people prefer college football to the NFL (not me but there are many people out there). There is more passion and tradition in NCAA and the individual games mean more.

I don't understand the fascination with HS sports in Indiana, but its hardly an Indiana only thing. Ever see Friday Night Lights? That stuff is real. I was just there and those stadiums rival college stadiums... Indiana they just build giant basketball arena's for their high schools...I don't really understand how one is worse than the other. Central Illinois cares more about HS Football and Illini sports than pro sports. In the midwest and south HS sports are just a big deal and in some ways I think its different culture and not as much to do on friday nights. I personally don't really get it anywhere unless your kid is playing or you're going to the school, but I don't think there is anything sinister behind it unless you want it to be...

[Sodboy13]

As someone who (reluctantly) goes to a small private school in Indiana, I wouldn't want to be playing Carmel

You wouldn't want to be on the bus ride home with them, either.

[CubsFanBudMan]

Stern's just talking a good game. The Pistons had league-leading attendance until the team got terrible this year, and they're one of the most profitable teams in the league: they make more, much more, than the Celtics, Heat, Knicks, 76ers, and pretty much everyone that's not the Bulls or Lakers. They have one of the best and most lucrative arenas in the league. They're way more valuable in greater Detroit than they are in Las Vegas.

I can see the Cavaliers moving, though.

I'd agree, except this is what Stern started doing in Seattle, and that talk turned into a walk. Of course, as you said, the arena issues are completely different here. But as solid as The Palace seems, that hasn't stopped talk of the Red Wings moving there while a replacement is built for both teams. I can't imagine the Pistons moving, but the NBA likes to be the only game in town. And if the team is sold to a Vegas bidder, it would be just a matter of time before it's Seattle-to-OKC all over again, except in this case leaving what I'd have to think is a lucrative market/arena for one of the other struggling teams. Doesn't make sense to me, but who knows.

Yes, the new deal ensures they stay through 2013. After that, the team can pay a declining penalty every year though 2020 to leave. I'd say it doesn't look good, but aren't the Kings (arena), T-Wolves (arena (?) and GM is destroying team), and apparently now Pistons bigger threats to move?

The Pistons? They may get a new building in the greater Detroit area, but they aren't leaving the market. If they do I'll eat my keyboard.

I would have thought the same thing a few days ago, and had heard as much (new downtown arena for Red Wings-Pistons) but the Detroit Free Press just did a story on David Stern refusing to say the Pistons would be staying (they're for sale) and now the Las Vegas Sun came out today saying that a Vegas group has an NBA team "under contract" to move if an arena is built. I've always thought the Kings were the most likely to move to Vegas because of the Maloofs, but who knows. I figure if the Free Press is taking relocation seriously, then maybe it is. I've wondered if cities like Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburgh with 3 or more major teams would be able to sustain all of them indefinitely in this economy...

(Sorry for no links...on the run using BB.)

Group #3: Chris Milam is the guy who has said that he has a team in place to move if a facility is build. He does not want immediate tax dollars, but rather wants the county to revive the mothballed redevelopment district off Sahara Avenue. Tax money from the district would begin flowing to the arena after it opened and total $125 million over two decades. No bonds would be used. His estimate was that this would only cost taxpayers 15-20% of the total cost. He also got a no.

I say bullsh since he did not tell them 30 days ago that he had a team ready to move.

Thanks for the details. This all seems familiar, and as highly unlikely as before, but eventually I think Vegas will test the "build it and they will come" theory. With as much as that place changes between my trips there, I'm surprised they haven't already.

Here are the links to the previous stories I referenced:

Indianapolis Star: Pacers getting $33.5 million to stay

Las Vegas Sun: NBA team ‘under contract’ if Las Vegas builds an arena

Detroit Free-Press: David Stern: NBA hopes Pistons don't move

And a couple new ones:

Crain's Cleveland Business on the Pacers' deal: Welcome to the future of pro sports

Detroit News on the Vegas/Pistons scenario: "Could that team be the Pistons?"

[dfwabel]

As I said before, a month ago, Milan had the opportunity to give the news of an agreement to the County Commission. Instead, he makes this claim the same day the NBA Board of Governors meetings which are in Las Vegas.

A study for the county revealed that the existing five arenas can serve 63,000 patrons and are underutilized, and a publicly funded arena also would pull business away from the private arenas (MGM, Mandalay Bay, and Orleans). That Milam location is a traffic nightmare.

Another reason not to do it...see Sprint Center.

[CubsFanBudMan]

All true.

[RyanMcD29]

It's unbelievable and sad that the NBA is failing in Indianapolis. They gotta get over the Stephen Jackson thing already.

Not really. Indiana's love for basketball seems to have always had an inverse relationship to the age and skill of the players. High School-WOOHOO that is awesome, although not as awesome as when they had one tournament. College: We are loyal to our myriad universities, especially when they are good. But we aren't paying for garbage; if you suck, we won't be there. NBA: There's basketball after college? Why? Well, if they're good we can support them. Except they aren't good.

I've always suspected a racial component when I hear people talk about how they like college basketball but not pro.

1. Not every college basketball fan roots for Duke, UNC, Butler, Cornell (ok they're my secondary team but still), Gonzaga, or Northern Iowa, ya know. Just watch a Big East game (Notre Dame aside) and then try to tell me all college basketball fans like it cause there's more white guys playing.

2. As stated before, I'm more of a college basketball guy due to the style of the game and the structure of the tournament, rivalry games, and the atmosphere, to name a few.

That being said, no I'm not making out that college basketball players to be superior to NBA players. That argument's just plain stupid.

[CubsFanBudMan]

An update from NBC Sports:

Who is the mystery "deal to go to Vegas" team?

It's not Detroit, which, as many have said here, never really made any sense anyway. Good for the Pistons. I'm sure that Red Wings combo plan is still the most likely.

The earlier part of the article (from yesterday afternoon) also debunked the Kings, which I always thought was the logical Vegas choice, and says most sources are "skeptical" about the whole announcement. One thing not mentioned is that any team could stay in their current location until the arena is built, meaning the obvious choices right now might not be in a few years, except maybe the Pacers, since their lease was only extend a few years before a buyout.

[NJTank]

Kings or Clippers would be the best fit in Vegas if you ask me.

[pcgd]

As someone who (reluctantly) goes to a small private school in Indiana, I wouldn't want to be playing Carmel

You wouldn't want to be on the bus ride home with them, either.

That's comedic gold if you know the story at all...

http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp?S=12023541

[DustDevil61]

As long as it's not the Utah Jazz, I'll be fine. Their arena could be seen as getting old (20 years) to some.

I'd hate to see the Pistons or Pacers go to Las Vegas. Hopefully the Kings stay, but LV is a good #2 spot for them. I agree with NJTank, in that the Clippers in Las Vegas make some of the most sense. They should look into leaving the greater LA area; that there's Laker country.

Las Vegas Grizzlies, anyone? Of course, if Seattle gets a new arena (that's another story, however), they could be the new location of the Grizz.

[CubsFanBudMan]

I hate to think it, but the Las Vegas Bucks are probably a possibility, too.

[The_Admiral]

Would've been already if Herb Kohl didn't forbid the new owners from moving the team.

[illwauk]

Unless, of course, the Senator retires and therefore no longer has to worry about angry Wisconsinites voting him out of office.

Even though I've found myself slightly caring about the Bucks again, I could still do without them. The NBA has been seen as a joke around here ever since the Bucks got dicked out of the 2001 Finals. We'd still have our three local college programs and losing the NBA would probably make us a front-runner for an NHL or MLS team... epscially the latter since it was the Bradley Center's ownership that prevented the would-be MLS soccer park from going up across the street and wound up killing the bid altogether.

[Eye]

Unless, of course, the Senator retires and therefore no longer has to worry about angry Wisconsinites voting him out of office.

Even though I've found myself slightly caring about the Bucks again, I could still do without them. The NBA has been seen as a joke around here ever since the Bucks got dicked out of the 2001 Finals. We'd still have our three local college programs and losing the NBA would probably make us a front-runner for an NHL or MLS team... epscially the latter since it was the Bradley Center's ownership that prevented the would-be MLS soccer park from going up across the street and wound up killing the bid altogether.

What exactly happened here? I don't remember.

[dfwabel]

As long as it's not the Utah Jazz, I'll be fine. Their arena could be seen as getting old (20 years) to some.

I'd hate to see the Pistons or Pacers go to Las Vegas. Hopefully the Kings stay, but LV is a good #2 spot for them. I agree with NJTank, in that the Clippers in Las Vegas make some of the most sense. They should look into leaving the greater LA area; that there's Laker country.

Las Vegas Grizzlies, anyone? Of course, if Seattle gets a new arena (that's another story, however), they could be the new location of the Grizz.

The Grizzlies lease with the City of Memphis and FedExForum runs through 2014. The language of their current lease reads, "...during the first ten seasons in FedExForum, the team shall not relocate from the City of Memphis."

Following the 2013-14 season, the team can move only if certain ticket and suite sales minimums are not met. Even then, the city and Shelby County have the right to step in and buy enough tickets or suites to meet the minimums.

If the city and county pass and someone wants to buy the team and move it out of town, then the city and county would still have the opportunity to find a local buyer to match the purchase price.

Any out-of-town buyer would also have to pay off the debt service on FedExForum, a number that doesn't dip below $100 million until 2015. Plus, the buyer would have to pay back FedEx for a portion of the naming rights.

The developer, Chris Milam is most likely lying since he was shot down last month and there is another meeting in August.

Note, for 2009, the Nevada Senate allowed Clark County to raise their sales tax by a quarter cent for police. The county can begin to impose an additional one-eighth of one percent tax in July 2011 and another one-eighth percent tax in July 2013, they are getting close to 10% sales tax before a new arena is even build.

[illwauk]

Unless, of course, the Senator retires and therefore no longer has to worry about angry Wisconsinites voting him out of office.

Even though I've found myself slightly caring about the Bucks again, I could still do without them. The NBA has been seen as a joke around here ever since the Bucks got dicked out of the 2001 Finals. We'd still have our three local college programs and losing the NBA would probably make us a front-runner for an NHL or MLS team... epscially the latter since it was the Bradley Center's ownership that prevented the would-be MLS soccer park from going up across the street and wound up killing the bid altogether.

What exactly happened here? I don't remember.

From the internet's most editable source:

?It behooves everybody for the league to make more money, and the league knows that Philadelphia is going to make more money with L.A. than we would with L.A.? ? Milwaukee Bucks star Ray Allen, before Game 6 of the 2001 Eastern Conference Finals

In 2001, the Milwaukee Bucks played the Philadelphia 76ers in the Eastern Conference Finals. The small-market Bucks (who had not even been featured on NBC that year prior to the second round of the playoffs) did not have any "big-time" stars, with the exception of Ray Allen (who, despite being popular, was not in the upper-echelon of NBA players in terms of endorsements). Their opponent that year, the Philadelphia 76ers had the polarizing and popular Allen Iverson, who had a multitude of shoe deals and mainstream recognition. The Sixers also featured that year's winners of the MVP award in Iverson, Defensive Player of the Year award in Dikembe Mutumbo, Sixth Man of the Year award in Aaron McKie, and Coach of the Year award in Larry Brown.

The series had several calls deemed dubious by the Bucks and their fans. Glenn Robinson, Sam Cassell and George Karl joined Allen in complaining about the officiating and hinting that the league was against them. Karl and Allen were both fined for their comments[44]. In Game 6 of the tensely-fought series, Bucks forward Scott Williams threw an elbow at Iverson and was subsequently suspended for the deciding Game 7. After Milwaukee lost Game 7 on the road, Sports Illustrated columnist Marty Burns insinuated that the suspension may have been a form of payback by the league:

?Williams' elbow to Iverson's chin warranted the flagrant 2 ruling, which kept Williams out of Game 7, but the Bucks' public airing of such potentially damaging charges to the NBA probably didn't help their case.?

Some analysis of the foul discrepancies during this series appear to support the theory that fouls were unfairly called against the Bucks. Specifically, despite being known for his ability to draw fouls and get to the free throw line, Iverson did so with less frequency during this series than he did during the regular season.

[tommytimp]

Another reason not to do it...see Sprint Center.

Was that built expressly to lure an NBA team?

[rams80]

Another reason not to do it...see Sprint Center.

Was that built expressly to lure an NBA team?

Or an NHL team. They weren't picky, but a "Big 4" team was definitely in mind when they built it.

[Panhead1]

The move's not gonna happen. Indiana is too much of a basketball state. That said, there is still the possibility of a team relocating there. I can see New Orleans or Milwaukee moving to Vancouver. It's not likely, but more likely than the other teams.

[tommytimp]

Another reason not to do it...see Sprint Center.

Was that built expressly to lure an NBA team?

Or an NHL team. They weren't picky, but a "Big 4" team was definitely in mind when they built it.

Makes sense. It's a good sized building with a very big-league look.