2012 MLB & Logo Changes

[Anubis2051]

Why would die-hard fans of one team suddenly switch over to another just because they come into the same city? So Red Sox fans, a pretty darn famous group of fans, are suddenly going to start cheering for another Boston team because there's already enough cheering for the Sawx?

This was '01-'02, the Red Sox bandwagon hadn't really started rolling yet. Just as many drunken college transplants would have gone to expos games as sox games. Yeah, you'd still have your sox holdouts, but it wouldn't have been as many people as today.

[The_Admiral]

There's a reason the Deep South only has one team - it's probably the area of the country where baseball is the least popular.

I dunno about that one, dude man bro. There are dozens upon dozens of minor league teams in the south.

[xTr1pleXx]

Why would die-hard fans of one team suddenly switch over to another just because they come into the same city? So Red Sox fans, a pretty darn famous group of fans, are suddenly going to start cheering for another Boston team because there's already enough cheering for the Sawx?

This was '01-'02, the Red Sox bandwagon hadn't really started rolling yet. Just as many drunken college transplants would have gone to expos games as sox games. Yeah, you'd still have your sox holdouts, but it wouldn't have been as many people as today.

The Red Sox have probably the biggest grasp over their home market of any team in the nation, save for maybe the Cardinals (and that's pushing it). Back then, the Sox didn't have the wealth of bandwagoners they do today, but they still had a stranglehold over nearly all of New England, except for the half of Connecticut that's Yankee territory (and the very northern reaches of Vermont and New Hampshire, I suppose).

New England is very firmly Red Sox territory. Was before they started winning World Series, and will be many years from now.

[Billy B]

There's a reason the Deep South only has one team - it's probably the area of the country where baseball is the least popular.

It's not that baseball isn't popular in the South, it's just that they're all Braves fans.

[hailstateunis]

There's a reason the Deep South only has one team - it's probably the area of the country where baseball is the least popular.

Nope, It's actually the part of the country where College Baseball is most popular, which derives from the MLB. But baseball in general is just as, if not more popular in the Deep South.

[xTr1pleXx]

There's a reason the Deep South only has one team - it's probably the area of the country where baseball is the least popular.

I dunno about that one, dude man bro. There are dozens upon dozens of minor league teams in the south.

That's true, but that tends to appeal more to baseball diehards than casual fans. Same goes for college baseball.

Thing is, in the Midwest, baseball is pretty firmly the #2 sport, and in the Northeast, it's generally #1. Meanwhile, down south, baseball is definitely behind college football, the NFL, and NASCAR in popularity. So while it is a popular sport there, it's not quite as strong as in other parts of the nation.

[njmeadowlanders]

I still think Vancouver would be an intriguing test. I feel like they would fare much better than the Grizzlies did in their time there. I think the biggest hurdle would be Seattle opposition, but a Seattle-Vancouver rivalry would be good for them and it'd help the Mariners not be so secluded from the rest of their opponents (even the Canucks have 2 teams in Alberta, Seattle is near nobody).

[GriffinM6]

There's a reason the Deep South only has one team - it's probably the area of the country where baseball is the least popular.

I dunno about that one, dude man bro. There are dozens upon dozens of minor league teams in the south.

That's true, but that tends to appeal more to baseball diehards than casual fans. Same goes for college baseball.

Thing is, in the Midwest, baseball is pretty firmly the #2 sport, and in the Northeast, it's generally #1. Meanwhile, down south, baseball is definitely behind college football, the NFL, and NASCAR in popularity. So while it is a popular sport there, it's not quite as strong as in other parts of the nation.

We southern folk love baseball actually. East Cobb is one of the best baseball programs in the country. The south is an MLB high school draftee hub filled with great teams. I may be stating this for us suburban folk, because I don't hear people in my area talk about NASCAR at all, except the few rednecks I know. Lacrosse is even bigger hear than NASCAR. Baseball is especially big in my county. Every team in the state AAAAA final four this year was from our county. The south is definitely the place to be when it comes to baseball.

[RamblinGamblinTiger]

There's a reason the Deep South only has one team - it's probably the area of the country where baseball is the least popular.

Um, baseball is quite popular down here, even if it is clearly second to college football.

The reason the Deep South only has one team is that we don't have the number of of major cities down here. Where would you put a team besides Atlanta?

NOLA? Birmingham? Nashville? Memphis? I don't think any of those would work long-term.

[Windstorm]

I still think Vancouver would be an intriguing test. I feel like they would fare much better than the Grizzlies did in their time there. I think the biggest hurdle would be Seattle opposition, but a Seattle-Vancouver rivalry would be good for them and it'd help the Mariners not be so secluded from the rest of their opponents (even the Canucks have 2 teams in Alberta, Seattle is near nobody).

As someone who lives in BC, I can pretty much guarantee that an MLB team wouldn't work here. There simply aren't enough fans to support a team, and the baseball fans that are here mostly support the Jays or Mariners anyways. We could support AAA baseball for sure, but we'd probably need a new ballpark or a Nat Bailey Stadium expansion.

Personally I like things the way they are in Vancouver... it's nice having a small, classic ballpark and a team (the Canadians) that plays other local teams and builds rivalries.

[DarthBrett]

I always hear the main problem with the Trop is that it's in St. Petersburg, not in Tampa. I do not know the area at all, but I have always understood the stadium is in an isolated, industrial area that is nowhere near downtown Tampa.

My question is would building a nice, brand-new stadium in a nicer, more accessible area of the city of Tampa allow the Rays to thrive and survive in central Florida? I really think the team should stay put and try to work it out in the long term.

Can any Tampa natives shed some light on this? Are there nice areas of Tampa that could be revitalized by a new stadium, hotels and restaurants/bars?

[Matito]

I'm not really sure why NASCAR would be an issue in Charlotte. There are two races a year at Charlotte Motor Speedway. Even if you expand to the surrounding areas and include Darlington, Richmond, Martinsville, Atlanta, and Bristol, that's still a total of ten races spread out among six tracks, with dates ranging from March to October, not exactly something that would detract in a huge way from a stick-and-ball team. Do I think Charlotte could/would support 81 games a year? I'm not sold, but I see a lot of current MLB cities that can't/won't do it anyway.

[hailstateunis]

Here's the Basic popularity in the South-

Pro-

NFL

NBA

MLB

NASCAR

NHL

College-

Football

Basketball

Baseball ( All 3 are popular, but Basketball probably edges out Baseball.)

- No other sport is really big unless you're a parent or something.

High School-

Football

Baseball

Basketball

Little Leauge ( Most Players)

Baseball

Football

Basketball

But It really depends on what level you're talking about. MLB isn't really that popular in the south, but College and HS Baseball is. Especially Little Leauge, where pretty much every boy plays spring baseball sometime in his life. Like one day we had a man from Chicago come down to our church, and he said that the 2nd biggest difference was that people down here like baseball alot more that they did where he was from.

[McCall]

I always hear the main problem with the Trop is that it's in St. Petersburg, not in Tampa. I do not know the area at all, but I have always understood the stadium is in an isolated, industrial area that is nowhere near downtown Tampa.

My question is would building a nice, brand-new stadium in a nicer, more accessible area of the city of Tampa allow the Rays to thrive and survive in central Florida? I really think the team should stay put and try to work it out in the long term.

Can any Tampa natives shed some light on this? Are there nice areas of Tampa that could be revitalized by a new stadium, hotels and restaurants/bars?

St. Petersburg isn't gonna let them out of their lease to head to Tampa. Kind of a "little brother syndrome" scenario where they feel they're just as good as Tampa and want to prove it. If they stay in the bay, it's gonna be in St. Pete, at least until the lease is up.

[CrookedThumb]

I always hear the main problem with the Trop is that it's in St. Petersburg, not in Tampa. I do not know the area at all, but I have always understood the stadium is in an isolated, industrial area that is nowhere near downtown Tampa.

My question is would building a nice, brand-new stadium in a nicer, more accessible area of the city of Tampa allow the Rays to thrive and survive in central Florida? I really think the team should stay put and try to work it out in the long term.

Can any Tampa natives shed some light on this? Are there nice areas of Tampa that could be revitalized by a new stadium, hotels and restaurants/bars?

That's my argument. The main hub of the area and where the majority of Rays fans are, obviously, is Tampa. To traverse from Tampa to St. Pete takes almost an hour, and longer if you're fighting traffic on I- 275. To go to a game in the middle of the week if you're leaving from Tampa is much more of a pain than it's worth.

Not to mention, most of the well-known transplant population, who are fans of other teams, live in Pinellas County, not Tampa.

As someone born and raised in Pinellas County, would I like the Rays to stay in St. Pete? Of course. But I recognize that they have a much better shot in Tampa.

[Kramerica Industries]

I always hear the main problem with the Trop is that it's in St. Petersburg, not in Tampa. I do not know the area at all, but I have always understood the stadium is in an isolated, industrial area that is nowhere near downtown Tampa.

My question is would building a nice, brand-new stadium in a nicer, more accessible area of the city of Tampa allow the Rays to thrive and survive in central Florida? I really think the team should stay put and try to work it out in the long term.

Can any Tampa natives shed some light on this? Are there nice areas of Tampa that could be revitalized by a new stadium, hotels and restaurants/bars?

St. Petersburg isn't gonna let them out of their lease to head to Tampa. Kind of a "little brother syndrome" scenario where they feel they're just as good as Tampa and want to prove it. If they stay in the bay, it's gonna be in St. Pete, at least until the lease is up.

St. Pete beats Tampa in terms of sadness, however!

Another problem with the Trop Florida Suncoast Dome is that it was built in the '80s, when Tampa/St. Pete was trying lure other teams to town (White Sox, Giants, Mariners). Then the Lightning came to town and moved into the Trop ThunderDome for a few seasons while the Tampa Bay Times Forum Ice Palace was being built, and by the time the Rays finally arrived at the Trop, it was obsolete and needing renovations.

Like many expansion teams, the Rays had to start off in a dilapidated venue. Unlike all other expansion teams - the Rays were stuck in their dilapidated venue.

[jigokusabre]

Here's the Basic popularity in the South-

Pro-

NFL

NBA

MLB

NASCAR

NHL

College-

Football

Basketball

Baseball ( All 3 are popular, but Basketball probably edges out Baseball.)

- No other sport is really big unless you're a parent or something.

High School-

Football

Baseball

Basketball

Little Leauge ( Most Players)

Baseball

Football

Basketball

But It really depends on what level you're talking about. MLB isn't really that popular in the south, but College and HS Baseball is. Especially Little Leauge, where pretty much every boy plays spring baseball sometime in his life. Like one day we had a man from Chicago come down to our church, and he said that the 2nd biggest difference was that people down here like baseball alot more that they did where he was from.

So what? Football is more popular in a lot of places, that has nothing to do with baseball. Different game, different season. If fans are into the game (College/HS/LL Baseball) then a better brand of baseball will certainly be interesting. Is anyone saying, "I'm an Ohio state fan, so I can't root for the Reds/Indians"? or "I am a Packers fan therefore I cannot watch the Brewers."?

As for the idea that "if there were a feasible relocation candidate, the Marlins/Twins/A's/Expos would have moved there." That's BS. Just because Jeffrey Loria threatened to move the Marlins to San Antonio, Portland, etc. doesn't mean that he really wants to move out of Miami (larger city / media market).

[xTr1pleXx]

Here's the Basic popularity in the South-

Pro-

NFL

NBA

MLB

NASCAR

NHL

College-

Football

Basketball

Baseball ( All 3 are popular, but Basketball probably edges out Baseball.)

- No other sport is really big unless you're a parent or something.

High School-

Football

Baseball

Basketball

Little Leauge ( Most Players)

Baseball

Football

Basketball

But It really depends on what level you're talking about. MLB isn't really that popular in the south, but College and HS Baseball is. Especially Little Leauge, where pretty much every boy plays spring baseball sometime in his life. Like one day we had a man from Chicago come down to our church, and he said that the 2nd biggest difference was that people down here like baseball alot more that they did where he was from.

So what? Football is more popular in a lot of places, that has nothing to do with baseball. Different game, different season. If fans are into the game (College/HS/LL Baseball) then a better brand of baseball will certainly be interesting. Is anyone saying, "I'm an Ohio state fan, so I can't root for the Reds/Indians"? or "I am a Packers fan therefore I cannot watch the Brewers."?

As for the idea that "if there were a feasible relocation candidate, the Marlins/Twins/A's/Expos would have moved there." That's BS. Just because Jeffrey Loria threatened to move the Marlins to San Antonio, Portland, etc. doesn't mean that he really wants to move out of Miami (larger city / media market).

Thing is, people have a limited amount of money they can spend on entertainment. If they prefer the NFL, college football, or NASCAR to MLB, they will spend more of those dollars on those sports than on baseball. Also, those sports will negatively impact baseball ratings and attendance on the weekends, when NASCAR and/or football events are being held. Even if there's no event in Charlotte, a lot of people will stay home on Sundays to watch NASCAR.

And I'm not saying that baseball is unpopular in the South - I'm saying that more sports take priority over baseball in the South than in most other areas. In most of the country, baseball is the #2 sport. It's most certainly not in the South.

Also, we know that Loria didn't want to move to San Antonio or Portland. But what if he had Washington or Phoenix or Denver open? You bet he would've wanted to bail from a failed market to those. And that's precisely my point: if a good option existed, somebody would've taken it by now. There's enough owners who have been unhappy with their markets.

[andycumbee19]

Edit nevermind

[slapshot]