NFL Changes 2014+

[guest23]

I'm only referring to their template not the design of the uniform. It isn't over dazzly like the aforementioned teams and it doesn't have weird fitting sleeves and huge mesh holes with widely stretched numbers.

You're kidding yourself if you think the numbers on the Packers and Raiders' uniforms are all distorted/stretched.

I'd rather have stretched numbers on a few linemen then have Nike sweat boxes and mismatched shades of green anyway.

Nobody's kidding anybody, just stating facts

For a mod that loves to let people know he's a mod, you sure are acting immature and foolish.

This was my point exactly.

Those jerseys look really uncomfortable as well, I know that mesh isn't made to stretch much.

Also can someone explain why older designs had/have the widened numbers on the sleeves? I never really understood the purpose.

The tv numbers are different proportions for the assumed benefit of legibility. I prefer the modified fonts (possibly due to tradition) compared to a scaled down version of the chest/back proportions. I understand the idea of consistency but to me it reminds me of cheap replicas.

[TheOldRoman]

The jets do not have three shades of green. Unfortunately the nike template uses three different textile types for base panels, mesh sections and inserts (if applicable). What causes the drastic distortion is how each material reflects in the light and when the fabric gets wet (sweat typically). The problem is that dark green emphasizes these characteristics/flaws of dri fit more than any other color in the nike palette. Yes it looks horrible but there simply are not 3 shades of green in the jets jersey. It's a single shade of green that simply does not maintain it's integrity when applied to a sports uniform.

No. They are 2-3 separate shades, or at least they were through last year. The center stripe on the shoulders is their actual shade of green, as are the sleeve numbers. The body is either one or two different shades, and it's much more olive in color. And then the players hit the field for warm-ups and the sweat box is in full effect. And "well, they looked good before the player started sweating" is not an argument in Nike's favor. If they can't produce their patented performance enhancing materials in a way that doesn't instantly change colors in strategically designs spaces, it's their blunder, not something we should shrug off and say "Eh, it's 2014. But I'm sure you'd rather the teams wear Sandknit jerseys."

From what I remember from looking at graphics, the theory was actually sound - since the sleeves are more like "cap" sleeves and the arm holes extend at a diagonal, then doing the stripes like they do would actually keep them level as opposed to also on a diagonal (obviously the arm hole would obstruct them, but what little you could see would be level.)

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way on an actual jersey on an actual person.

But the thing is, the 49ers jerseys have the arm holes on a much steeper diagonal than other teams, just as when Reebok made them. The Bears' stripes aren't on a diagonal, or at least they don't appear that way. Since they are moved up, they have plenty of room. I would somewhat understand what the Niners did if they did so to keep the numbers on the sleeves, but they went with the crappy stripes AND moved the numbers. It doesn't make sense.

[TruColor]

Don't know if this is still true, but as of just a few years ago, the Raiders' uniforms were manufactured by some mom-and-pop shop in the Bay Area. Had been that way since AFL days. A contact of mine - who is close to the team told me this...apparently, they just manually put on the various manufacturer/licensee logo depending on who has the contract at the time.

Like I said, don't know if it's still true.

[mafiaman]

Don't know if this is still true, but as of just a few years ago, the Raiders' uniforms were manufactured by some mom-and-pop shop in the Bay Area. Had been that way since AFL days. A contact of mine - who is close to the team told me this...apparently, they just manually put on the various manufacturer/licensee logo depending on who has the contract at the time.

Like I said, don't know if it's still true.

Probably some truth to that rumor - I know the Minnesota Wild hockey jerseys were customized by a shop in South St Paul, MN as recently as the early 2000's.

[TheOldRoman]

Don't know if this is still true, but as of just a few years ago, the Raiders' uniforms were manufactured by some mom-and-pop shop in the Bay Area. Had been that way since AFL days. A contact of mine - who is close to the team told me this...apparently, they just manually put on the various manufacturer/licensee logo depending on who has the contract at the time.

Like I said, don't know if it's still true.

Probably some truth to that rumor - I know the Minnesota Wild hockey jerseys were customized by a shop in South St Paul, MN as recently as the early 2000's.

A lot of teams use local mom-and-pop places for customization. He's saying the Raiders use(d) a small local place to actually produce the jerseys, which has been a rarity for some time.

[guest23]

The jets do not have three shades of green. Unfortunately the nike template uses three different textile types for base panels, mesh sections and inserts (if applicable). What causes the drastic distortion is how each material reflects in the light and when the fabric gets wet (sweat typically). The problem is that dark green emphasizes these characteristics/flaws of dri fit more than any other color in the nike palette. Yes it looks horrible but there simply are not 3 shades of green in the jets jersey. It's a single shade of green that simply does not maintain it's integrity when applied to a sports uniform.

No. They are 2-3 separate shades, or at least they were through last year. The center stripe on the shoulders is their actual shade of green, as are the sleeve numbers. The body is either one or two different shades, and it's much more olive in color. And then the players hit the field for warm-ups and the sweat box is in full effect. And "well, they looked good before the player started sweating" is not an argument in Nike's favor. If they can't produce their patented performance enhancing materials in a way that doesn't instantly change colors in strategically designs spaces, it's their blunder, not something we should shrug off and say "Eh, it's 2014. But I'm sure you'd rather the teams wear Sandknit jerseys."

From what I remember from looking at graphics, the theory was actually sound - since the sleeves are more like "cap" sleeves and the arm holes extend at a diagonal, then doing the stripes like they do would actually keep them level as opposed to also on a diagonal (obviously the arm hole would obstruct them, but what little you could see would be level.)

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way on an actual jersey on an actual person.

But the thing is, the 49ers jerseys have the arm holes on a much steeper diagonal than other teams, just as when Reebok made them. The Bears' stripes aren't on a diagonal, or at least they don't appear that way. Since they are moved up, they have plenty of room. I would somewhat understand what the Niners did if they did so to keep the numbers on the sleeves, but they went with the crappy stripes AND moved the numbers. It doesn't make sense.

What makes you so certain about the jets? Nike has to communicate to their vendors on how to produce every single product they procure and color specs are an essential element. Do believe these specs call for using 3 separate green pantones or is it more likely that only a single pantone (hunter green) is referred to in the specs? If nike's specs only call for hunter green then that would lead me to conclude that the vendor (Powers I believe) has elected to use different pantones for some reason whether intentional or erroneous. What I think is much more likely is that the variance is driven by the dye/fabric combo that causes the color to look inconsistent.

[TheOldRoman]

I don't think Nike specifically listed 2-3 separate shades of green on the list, no. But if Nike or whoever produces the materials for them has Pantone #XYZ in two different materials which barely even look similar next to each other, it's back to the drawing board. You can phrase it however you'd like, but the Jets' jerseys were olive-ish and looked noticeably different from the stripes and sleeve numbers, which accurately show their intended color. Even if it's not intended, it's not acceptable to say "meh, close enough" and send a team out there in something that doesn't look like their team color.

[dbadefense1990]

Magnificent! Amazing contrast. I really like the Bucs' new white uniform.

Like I said, the San Francisco Demons have apparently made the leap from the XFL to the NFL.

[wonderbread]

I don't think Nike specifically listed 2-3 separate shades of green on the list, no. But if Nike or whoever produces the materials for them has Pantone #XYZ in two different materials which barely even look similar next to each other, it's back to the drawing board. You can phrase it however you'd like, but the Jets' jerseys were olive-ish and looked noticeably different from the stripes and sleeve numbers, which accurately show their intended color. Even if it's not intended, it's not acceptable to say "meh, close enough" and send a team out there in something that doesn't look like their team color.

As evidence:http://rollingout.com/sports/tim-tebow-released-from-jets/

You can clearly see the difference between the gene on the body which is more drab than the green in the center stripe and then you have the mesh zone that is much darker.

[RyanMcD29]

You know, I've been thinking about the Jets' look recently. It actually took a while for the 1998 redesign to grow on me, but I really liked it over time. The issue is, though, that although it's a solid, traditional uniform, it kinda feels a little stale. Add on first Reebok's botching of the stripes, just to get even worse once Nike took over with the inconsistent greens, and the set's fallen off a bit.

Now one way they can fix this is by switching to a lighter green. But that brings up another issue: I think with what they've got now, a darker green works much better than kelly green. Someone did a mockup with that once and it just looked way too light. Now I think they can get away with moving back to the 80s-90s jersey as an alternate, but I don't know if that would be beloved enough to go back full time. So.. I guess what I'm trying to say is I can't really come up with anything to fix the Jets' look if going back to an older jersey template isn't an option.

[TheSoundofThrowingPennies]

I had no idea the Raiders switching to an E51 was so hotly debated. What is one logical reason that this: (Quick and very dirty, no logo on the helmet, I know)

Would upset people. What changed?

[Gothamite]

Read the thread, and you'll see plenty of logical reasons. Even if Nike used the right number font.

A lot of teams use local mom-and-pop places for customization. He's saying the Raiders use(d) a small local place to actually produce the jerseys, which has been a rarity for some time.

Depends if you consider Ripon in rural Wisconsin as a "small local place". It's small enough, and produced almost all on-field NFL jerseys until about ten years ago.

[TheSoundofThrowingPennies]

Read the thread, and you'll see plenty of logical reasons.

A lot of teams use local mom-and-pop places for customization. He's saying the Raiders use(d) a small local place to actually produce the jerseys, which has been a rarity for some time.

Depends if you consider Ripon in rural Wisconsin as a "small local place". It's small enough, and produced almost all on-field NFL jerseys until about ten years ago.

Really? Because I've not seen a single one. I get it for Green Bay and the collar, but literally nothing changes on the Raiders. You can't even argue the pants stripe would change, because the Raiders already have a narrow pant stripe.

[oldschoolvikings]

I had no idea the Raiders switching to an E51 was so hotly debated. What is one logical reason that this: (Quick and very dirty, no logo on the helmet, I know)

Would upset people. What changed?

Umm... ridiculous cut off pants stripe? Even more ridiculous silver sock?

The question isn't why shouldn't they change... they question is why should they?

[TheSoundofThrowingPennies]

I had no idea the Raiders switching to an E51 was so hotly debated. What is one logical reason that this: (Quick and very dirty, no logo on the helmet, I know)

Would upset people. What changed?

Umm... ridiculous cut off pants stripe? Even more ridiculous silver sock?

The question isn't why shouldn't they change... they question is why should they?

Because they look like :censored: and nothing would change except how the jersey fits the players if they did change.

[Gothamite]

You're forgetting the hideous sweatboxes. Not even black will hide that, and they're certainly visible on the white.

Plus he got you on the cut-off pants stripes. You wanted one, that's a doozy. And the fact that Nike doesn't handle metallics particularly well, which is why the Cowboys don't use the Elite 51 pants.

[Cosmic]

The jets do not have three shades of green. Unfortunately the nike template uses three different textile types for base panels, mesh sections and inserts (if applicable). What causes the drastic distortion is how each material reflects in the light and when the fabric gets wet (sweat typically). The problem is that dark green emphasizes these characteristics/flaws of dri fit more than any other color in the nike palette. Yes it looks horrible but there simply are not 3 shades of green in the jets jersey. It's a single shade of green that simply does not maintain it's integrity when applied to a sports uniform.

No. They are 2-3 separate shades, or at least they were through last year. The center stripe on the shoulders is their actual shade of green, as are the sleeve numbers. The body is either one or two different shades, and it's much more olive in color. And then the players hit the field for warm-ups and the sweat box is in full effect. And "well, they looked good before the player started sweating" is not an argument in Nike's favor. If they can't produce their patented performance enhancing materials in a way that doesn't instantly change colors in strategically designs spaces, it's their blunder, not something we should shrug off and say "Eh, it's 2014. But I'm sure you'd rather the teams wear Sandknit jerseys."

From what I remember from looking at graphics, the theory was actually sound - since the sleeves are more like "cap" sleeves and the arm holes extend at a diagonal, then doing the stripes like they do would actually keep them level as opposed to also on a diagonal (obviously the arm hole would obstruct them, but what little you could see would be level.)

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way on an actual jersey on an actual person.

But the thing is, the 49ers jerseys have the arm holes on a much steeper diagonal than other teams, just as when Reebok made them. The Bears' stripes aren't on a diagonal, or at least they don't appear that way. Since they are moved up, they have plenty of room. I would somewhat understand what the Niners did if they did so to keep the numbers on the sleeves, but they went with the crappy stripes AND moved the numbers. It doesn't make sense.

What makes you so certain about the jets? Nike has to communicate to their vendors on how to produce every single product they procure and color specs are an essential element. Do believe these specs call for using 3 separate green pantones or is it more likely that only a single pantone (hunter green) is referred to in the specs? If nike's specs only call for hunter green then that would lead me to conclude that the vendor (Powers I believe) has elected to use different pantones for some reason whether intentional or erroneous. What I think is much more likely is that the variance is driven by the dye/fabric combo that causes the color to look inconsistent.

I don't care why it happens... it looks awful no matter the reason.

[IceCap]

For a mod that loves to let people know he's a mod, you sure are acting immature and foolish.

I'm acting immature and foolish for disagreeing with you? The guy who agrees with you threw out the "gramps" insult instead of trying to actually make a point.

And you're the first one to bring the mod thing into this. Fact is being a mod doesn't mean I'm not allowed to have, and state, my opinions here

Exactly. Yes, the Jets use one shade of green. Practically speaking, however? It appears as three shades on their uniforms due to the materials Nike uses. Seeing as the Packers use the same shade of green as the Jets? It would lead me to believe that a Packers Nike Elite 51 jersey would have the same mismatching problems. Not to mention the sweat box problem, which would add another variation.

[guest23]

Read the thread, and you'll see plenty of logical reasons. Even if Nike used the right number font.

A lot of teams use local mom-and-pop places for customization. He's saying the Raiders use(d) a small local place to actually produce the jerseys, which has been a rarity for some time.

Depends if you consider Ripon in rural Wisconsin as a "small local place". It's small enough, and produced almost all on-field NFL jerseys until about ten years ago.

Numbering, alterations and repairs are typically handled locally. Teams have done this for decades and do so for quick turnaround/not having to deal with shipping.

[IceCap]

Really? Because I've not seen a single one...but literally nothing changes on the Raiders. You can't even argue the pants stripe would change, because the Raiders already have a narrow pant stripe.

The pants stripe would get cut off at the hip.

The collars would still be huge, even if they're kept the same colour as the rest of the jersey. They'd be even more visible give the prominence of flywire.

The sweat box problem. It would still show up on the black jerseys and would be very visible on the whites.

Nike's problem replicating metallic sheen with their fabrics. The Raiders' pants would likely go from silver to flat grey if they switched to Nike's Elite 51 template.

I'd rather put up with a few stretched numbers on a few linemen then deal with all of that.